I was summoned here.
Back into this pit of irrelevant modes and fantasy storyline match ups.
Hopefully it wont last 3 months like last time. 
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Id would be fun if all characters could get a classic or ‘O’ version of themselves that played closer to their historical selves. The normals would be the same but the specials - and maybe supers - would be a bit different. Include the choice to play with legacy style systems.
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So people here are confirming and confident that Oro Viper and Rose, It’s like everyone is pointing to it besides the tarot, people from every social media platform keep saying the three is assured because of the leak way long long ago.
Or they DON’T lose their memories, and each Doll simply decides for themselves what they want to do.
So the less interesting Dolls like Aprile, Marz or Juni can decide to live normal lives, while the cool Dolls like Jianyu, Xaiyu and Noembelu find reasons to continue fighting, like becoming Triad enforcers or something.
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I hope they bring back Fei Long, Dee Jay, T. Hawk, Oro and Viper. The first three, because they need their stories to be wrapped up, especially T. Hawk. This is his game. I love Rose, but she should have been included either in the base roster or S2, as taking down Bison was her thing. She could have been the “resources” that Karin tried to be. Now that the ship has sailed and Menat is in the game in Rose’s place, I don’t want her to be in. Also, Bison is seemingly gone. What is Rose fighting for again? I hope they don’t waste a slot on her. Oro is a good tie-in for SF3 and Viper always has an agenda and could let us know what became of Shadaloo and the motives of Neo-Shadaloo and the Secret Society. Fei Long is a highly-requested character and he represents a style that is sorely missing in the game. They could give him a (good) story this time around. Fei could serve as an inspiration for younger generations (Yun and Yang, like in SFA3 Max). Dee Jay is the only one whom I can’t see having a decent story, but neither do Mika, Zangief, Birdie or Laura. He could just get robbed of a chance to release an international hit album by the Secret Society or something. Plus, he could interact with the younger generation. I can see Dee Jay and Ed getting along really well.
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I have no problem with Dolls being invented, they done their job at enrich SF universe as minor and (mostly) unplayable side characters
Problem is people calling them to become main SF characters, something they don’t have any depth for.
Even when they got the chance, the result ever been mediocre: Juni/Juli never felt true main characters, just a nice extra that happened just because sprite recycling was easier/cheaper than create an actual new character.
Same goes for Decapre, shit is straight “Evil Cammy” and considering we got Cammy and her superior, more thought concept we don’t need her.
Nor we needed Evil Ryu (or whatever they want call it)
People bad tastes finding a meeting point with something that can be created with cheap $hortcut is a bad combo
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That’s one of the downsides of SFA going more anime.
But the problem is not that they exist; the problem is that they got personality in SFV.
They should stay as they were in SFA, brainwashed soldiers with more of a robot personality.
But now we have Enero laughing like a spoiled girl, speaking with a megaphone and März asking for forgiveness and wondering if somebody will miss her.
I hope you are happy, you waifu legion weirdos.
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so it’s Q? Okay
DeeJay doesn’t really need to be part of the major conflict his a flexible character like the other you had mentioned.
Deejay’s vibrant energy, cheerfulness and very out going seems good to tie-in in-terms of personality with some new generation characters like Sean, Yun and Elena, or even Mika?
The biggest part that need story proper conclusion is the dolls.
Many stiil had poor understanding of clones and confused all the dolls just clones of Cammy because they judge them by the background history and visual not by the gameplay that shows the difference.
It’s like the same people keep saying Ken is a Ryu clone because of the karate gi and the background history but in reality is you can’t effectively play with Ryu’s Gameplan using Ken in most modern Street Fighter titles.
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On the tarot group i got similar reaction, my two instant thoughts have been
- 3 females out 5 seem unlikely
- Rolento seem unlikely
But is also true that for a sense of symmetry Lucia inclusion had me thinking they may add a third on Mad Gear side
Zeku-Abigail have a simple link, Abigail was defeated by Zeku’s disciple, plus Zeku can fit the role of “#2” (to Cody) just like Abigail (to a Boss)
Lucia-Poison another simple one, japs love pit tits vs tits and we got goodgirl police vs badgirl criminal. Both can fit the “#3” role
Poison did some move to try plan something (with Abigail) but it has been just random weak attempt without much plan push behind it… it literally end up in “abi let’s do crime! No? Ok have good day”
Cody is truly the one without a nemesis here
At first i thought Sodom could be the guy
He’s missing since forever, appear in that stage and last but not last he’s the one that showed most interest at resurrect the MGG
But yeah, does’nt feel that much potential wannabe leader/Boss… his whole desing scream “enforcer”, in fact capcom gave us Retu rather than Sodom playing new #1
Your post on Rolento make me think that of old candidates he can indeed pose the greatest treat for that kind of role.
Like Sodom he’s not THAT great fighter, but seem to be more on brain side and for the FF #1 may not be that much problem, Belger was’nt great fighter either
Maybe they can take a bit from Black, who was both a FF final boss and got Rolento vibe
Funny how capcom gave FF2 to a Sodom powerup (Retu) and FF3 to a Rolento powerup (Black) as if does’nt trust them for the job lol 
Capcom dropped this news because of Mortal Kombat 11 Aftermath?
Fujin has some great intro roasts, like against Kano and Kung Lao.
Capcom and NRS can have each other’s fighters borrow costumes like Sagat in Shao Kahn’s costume.
As much as I find the Dolls boring (and Cammy to a degree), the results of the Dolls being playable isn’t the fault of the concept of the Dolls themselves.
The issue is that Capcom treats them as an excuse to cut corners at every step of the design process. This isn’t just sprite/model swaps. It arguably isn’t even Evil Ryu territory.
When Capcom creates a new character, it involves several steps. At the very least, they come up with a physical design, a story design, and a fighting style role. Further development will give more personality aspects, more character connections, and the like. Both the efforts and the results vary.
Capcom shortcuts some of these steps with some characters. Akuma was Ryu/Ken on steroids and meth. Evil Ryu was Ryu if Ryu became more like Akuma. The physical designs and movesets are derivative, but they retain their own story designs and keep a cohesive fighting style role.
With the Dolls, Capcom shortcuts every one of these design steps. The concept derives from Cammy, and Capcom takes advantage of this to use tweaked sprites/models to create the in-game representation.
The story design relies on the bulletpoint Doll story, which is both shallow and repetitive. The horde of shotos are repetitive, but they each have enough of their own varied twists on the formula, defining their own unique roles. Meanwhile, shallow concepts like Fei Long at the least aren’t repetitive.
The worst offense may be the fighting style role. As this is a fighting game series, interesting and/or meaningful fighting styles could make up for the other design weaknesses. But Capcom cuts too many corners here as well, making the Dolls largely be Cammy with some different specials and supers. With some characters further “defined” by whatever random visual gimmick the concept artists could come up with to differentiate the physical designs (like Enero’s megaphone).
On the surface, this is similar to the horde of shotos, but there are important differences. The shoto family directly revolves around the main character of the series, while the Doll family revolves indirectly around the most popular villain of the series. The shoto toolkit is also a pretty all-around kit that allows for quite different gameplay results with little modification, while Cammy used a more specialized kit. And the members of the extended shoto family all have their own well defined story, character, and gameplay roles.
Did it have to be this way? Of course not. There isn’t really anything about the Dolls that requires they be clones of Cammy to such a degree, not even the similar builds. Worse, it didn’t even need to be this way. If Capcom had made only a single Doll for SFA3, instead of both Juli and Juni, then they might have put a bit more effort into differentiating that single character from Cammy. If Capcom had been given enough of a budget to create a full final character for SF4, then the Decapre fiasco might not have happened. If the SF4 Decapre PR fiasco hadn’t happened, then SFV would have had Decapre instead of Cammy, which would have given Capcom a chance to establish Decapre as her own character before Cammy inevitably returned.
And Capcom could still solve the matter. All they have to do is better differentiate the Dolls in the future, stop cutting so many corners, give them more of their own movesets and make those movesets cohesive. (The personalities shown in SFV story may be part of that process.)
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I’d be fine with a Doll if they went with the goal of “make this character as different from Cammy as possible”:
- Not blonde, preferably not of European descent to add more of a visual contrast
- Doesn’t rely on leg strikes and gymnastics as their primary tools. There are a lot of ways to move away from a fundamental strike-based character: grappler, projectile zoning, weapons, rekkas, stances, etc.
- Give them a story beyond “Hail Hydra”. A few already have ties outside of Shadowloo, and the others could easily be given some place in the world.
If Capcom took those steps, reusing a few animations wouldn’t be a big deal.
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I’d be down for a Doll, if it was literally a stance character where you can switch between several dolls, and incorporate the rest in some capacity elsewhere in the “character’s” gameplay. I also really like Decapre’s playstyle in SF4 so I wouldn’t mind her returning - Just not at the expense of Rose.
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Best doll imo is the Navajo bitch but shame theyll never use her. Edit: Actually make Santamu. But Noembelu is good too.
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I definitely think echo fighters or an equivalent should be used in the future, but paringly. I don’t really see Eagle and Dudley being similar enough to pull that off. One, I think Eagle’s leaner that Dudley, and just their movement philosophies are different to me. I’d want Eagle to be his own man and maximize his uniquness as a fighter, not have his moves adjusted so that it’s easier to them to take Dudley’s animations and tweak them a bit for Eagle.
I think the shotos, G & Q, Geki & Vega, Ryu & Evil Ryu, dolls, are the types of characters that should employ the echo system.
Same here! I’m hoping for a bit more lore building!
*brb making a video lol, glad these “hints” Ono did are back, they’re fun speculation fuel.
No they didn’t dude. Not everything has to do with MK…c’mon.
Anyways, all of the next season has me hyped. Not sure what to make out of Ono’s hint. As much as I love Q, I can’t see him back now, unless he’s an echo fighter for G. That being said, I can see them using the SF5 mentality of drastic changes to shake up how he fights enough that he and G can be separate characters on a roster.
I think though, Ono’s hint may refer to someone classic or…surprisingly Dee Jay? The theme of the image points at old Capcom music, but then there’s more “classic” stuff showing 3S and Vampire Saviour, though, I have no idea whether this is a “hint” for 1 character or several. Pretty fun to look at.
I’d be interested in seeing her as her own character to be honest.
About the dolls, I don’t regret them. I liked the story element because it added a notable footsoldier presence to Shadaloo and showed a peek into some of their projects. I think the idea and A3’s execution worked well. However, I don’t want it to be overused, and while I’d be interested in seeing where their stories go, as a whole, I don’t want to see too many of them pop up in the roster. If one or two pops up, let them be new characters, but have their past remembered. Don’t give them any of Cammy’s fighting animations
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I think Echo are a terrible idea for Street Fighter.
In regards to the shotos, there are already too many shoto and shoto-derivative characters to put the genie back in the bottle. The existing shotos need their differences to continue to be explored, not Capcom deciding it is alright for them to be even more identical because “Echo Fighter”. As for new characters, one of the last things Street Fighter needs is more similar shotos just for the sake of having more shotos.
In regards to other characters, why? If you are aiming to make new characters more alike than different, then why make new characters at all? Smash Bros is different from Street Fighter in that Smash “needs” to add more characters for popularity, series representation, and by Nintendo’s mandate. You only have the resources for one Star Fox character, but want the series to see more representation, so you echo Fox as Falco and Wolf. Nintendo mandates new major characters from the latest Fire Emblem be added, so Smash keeps getting more similarly dressed and styled sword users. Street Fighter doesn’t have that “need”.
Worse, Echo appearances can even be a disservice to the character. Smash Ganondorf was introduced as a Falcon clone, and has been stuck with that non-Ganondorf moveset ever since. It was nice to see Daisy as more than an alternate color for Peach, but now Smash Daisy is stuck as a Peach clone despite the characters having different personalities and styles.
Geki and Vega are both masked fighters that wield claw-based weapons, but that is pretty much the end of their similarities. Vega is a close/mid-range fighter that relies on agile slides, dives, and flips. Geki is a projectile user (ground and aerial shuriken attacks) with a teleport. You’d be doing a disservice to Geki to implement him as a Vega clone; a “name only” adaptation. (Geki is also supposedly dead, while his replacement is a sword-user.)
G is intentionally similar to Q, but is also defined by the differences throughout both his moveset and personality. If G has been created only as an “Echo Fighter” of Q, nearly all of that would likely have been lost. On a related note, consider if SF3 had been created with that mindset, with characters like Dudley just being a reskinned Balrog and Hugo a reskinned Zangief. Even if you found someone that really wanted Joe in Street Fighter, if that person wants Joe to be a Cody reskin then does that person really want SF1 Joe at all, or do they just want the name and general appearance of “Joe”?
As for the Dolls, again they need differentiation, not more excuses for similarity. People who don’t like Juli/Juni/Decapre aren’t going to like the characters more just because they get labeled “Echo Fighters”. At the same time, you risk stifling their chance to develop into their own characters. Treating future Dolls as “Echo Fighters” would arguably even be a regression after SFV attempted to further differentiate them.
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Eh, makes sense, I thought of the idea as a way to have appease those that wanted Evil Ryu, etc.
Those people deserve extermination, not appeasement.
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Actually, that crossed my mind that it could be something from the old thread that made to the old plot guide. Sorry, I made a mistake when I asked “where you got that from?” it was meant to be a question for @bakfromon, he was the one who translated that piece.
Lol, nice detective work. Saiki was responsible for a lot of info in the old plot guide, he claimed to know people that worked at Capcom (no names, of course) and that some info he received straight from them. No wonder there are a lot of things in the old plot guide that we can’t track down nowadays.
A pity that even the japanese wiki have been taintd with things that don’t have a source. There’s also hope that this was from a developer interview (like Decapre being the clone instead of Cammy, somehing that Ayano and Nakayama mentioned in Twitter or in interviews. the same goes fro the psycho powered bullets from Frevier machine gun).
LOL so in the original japanese manga Nakahira omitted that on purpose? I have the brazilian portuguese version (which was probably translated from the UDON version). There, the (Omission) part was something like (RESUME), as if they didn’t to explain the whole thing rather than just omitting it.
Oh please, take your time. Do you prefer to do one at a time? Hope everything is ok with your job. A lot of people got unemployed because of the pandemic. 
Indeed. He has a story that could fit the timeline pretty well.
That’s quite simple to solve! Add a “Shadaloo symbol” icon. There we’ll be able to choose from ALL the Dolls plus the 4 Soldiers and Psycho Powered Abel. How about that?
Ed possessed by Vega would a a great final boss for a second story mode that, unfortunately won’t happen. They hyped Neo Shadaloo for nothing.
Just like Cammy, the Dolls only have robot like personalities when in combat mode. They were meant to be the “Monitor Cyborgs” from that time.
It has been like that since 1998. It isn’t something new. Enero was “laughing like a spoiled girl” because she was mimicking Karin’s voice. Just like Fevrier being a trigger happy. BTW, the reason why Birdie fought her in ASF, came straight from Birdie’s SFZ3 stage backstory where he fought strong girls and one of them fired with a machine gun.
ABOUT NEW CHARACTERS
Please, you all making assumptions… deep down we all know that the new characters will be:
- Evil Ryu
- Oni
- Violent Ken
- Shin Akuma
- Sunburned Sakura
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