We’re not really talking about training here though because he obviously did, just his own opinion of himself that he is “perfect”. That mindset is inevitably detrimental. He needs to suffer loss to understand that which he hasn’t really unless Urien’s 3S ending is canon.
Urien and Gill are equally powerful (albeit in different ways), but not equally suited for the role of the leader of the SS. This was mentioned in various texts, most recently in the SF WW Encyclopedia. This is why Urien is so infuriated and resentful of Gill because he knows he is as strong, but can’t wrap his mind around not being chosen because he’s ruthless with a propensity for insanity most likely.
My suspicion and hope is that Alex is an SS member that escaped the cult as a child, possibly the third brother to Gill and Urien, and that he is in fact the chosen one of the society. Gill is the fraud taking his place.
Tbh i doubt that, and I PREFER Urien
He’s more “Roman”, wich instant win me
Urien is conceptually surpassed at everything by Gill, his whole concept is about that
Even as actually function/gameplay Urien is literally born as powered down version of Gill, wich does’nt translate to Canon but is pretty telling
Keep in mind we ever seen Urien show off his power, while Gill hide It
Canon wise we NEVER seen Gill going full power
We’ve never seen most characters fight at full power, including Bison, Akuma, Gouken, Gen, and Oro.
Gill’s gameplay is not necessarily indicative of his canon power level. IMO, it makes more sense that the brothers are more or less equal in power as it sets the foundation for their conflict best - See other sibling rivalries for reference such as Gouken and Akuma.
His character story and win quotes may help shed light on his true power level in relation to others.
Tbh i think Urien at least for a while truly believed to be just as good/better than his brother
But yeah, when he gave all himself and “won” the Presidency he likely realized his brother just toyed with him, treating him as a not deadly treat for himself (proving to be right while at it)
This is wrong
We seen almost all at their “full power”, we just did’nt seen all at their “full potential”, wich are two very different things
Former being go all-in with their current best performance, latter being the highest point they will reach in their lives
Example we seen all them going 100% aside Oro and Gill
For some we seen their life peak ever too, example i think Oro will not rise beyond what reached in SF3 (and likely realize he’s finally dying, wich gave him the push to find a successor).
Gouken possibly got his highest in SF4 forcing Akuma to a stalemate-“defeat”, or the next time we see him he will be even slighty better (still think Akuma kills him in next clash)
Gen probably had his visible peak in SFA days when he fought Akuma, with Akuma giving the impression an healthy Gen will have been a fight between equals (but being not due disease)
For Gill we never seen him going full power (we never seen him try to WIN lol), neither of course at full potential.
For the latter Oro see in both Ryu and Gill the potential to become sennin, so both got wide margin of growth despite being already both very very high in SF universe food-chain
I think at SF3 point Ryu is more or less powerful as Sf4 Gouken, wich is no more “enough”, as we seen in SFV Akuma keept rise and rise
I don’t see the same dynamic going on tbh
Gouken and Akuma life has been rivalry where they keep rise and surpass each other reaching level that neutralize rival’s current level.
Gouken>Akuma
SGS>Gouken
Mu no Ken>SGS
Houten Seikengeki > MnK (likely next step)
I don’t see that going on for Gill and Urien, i think by concept Gill just ever been a step above Urien their whole life
And even assuming for a moment that their physical/ki/technique is perfectly equal (wich to be honest i don’t believe), Gill still fuck him up by being smarter and having much greater control of his emotions
And again, i don’t think it’s the case… while at it, Oro does’nt seem to see in Urien the same potential of Gill/Ryu
In both 2I and 3S Oro quotes he point only at Ryu and Gill as ones with highest potential
And of course we know him and Akuma recognized a “Mutual assured destruction” kind of situation.
When he meet Urien is only bothered by his arrogance/pride
-full guessing here-
My theory is Alex was’nt a SS memeber, but son of SS members and destined to become one growing up.
I think his parents manage to escape far from Greece (with Tom helping them?) to USA to give Alex a normal life, getting killed in the process
This will mean Alex by birth benefit from similar eugenic selection of Gill/Urien, wich make him greater than most, but did’nt passed through illuminati’s training/gem process
A rough diamond essentially, wich perfect fit his concept
Tom having a role in that escape may have caused him to be hated by SS, a bad reputation that reached even Gill/Urien:
We know Urien hate Tom and we don’t have fucking idea of why
We see unlike usually playing fake losses and shit, Gill gone surprising hard on him, causing severe injury.
It’s also interessing how Tom say Gill has been “fair” and Gill neither killed him after or anything else, it give respect between fighters vibe.
Maybe Gill started hard as Tom was marked as an enemy of SS, but during the fight he found Tom as strong fighter and chosen to spare his life
Is also interessing Tom opened a MMA gym in the USA, being MMA (specially western/american style, strongly wrestling+boxing based) essentially a modern evolution of Pankration, the martial art teached at SS
Indeed. Urien’s backstory can pretty much be summarized as him having a massive inferiority complex against his brother and him being massively frustrated at the fact that he can’t really do anything about it.
I like to think that Tom did in fact beat Urien in the past. He simply couldn’t do so with Gill, who in turn went serious against him. The fact further exacerbated Urien’s inferiority complex towards his brother, and Urien obviously doesn’t like to be reminded of that.
The fun thing if you think about it is that they’re both alive
Urien will love to kill Gill. But can’t do it
Gill DOES’NT want to kill Urien. So Urien lives
Big difference
Gill probably love his brother, he maybe even respect him… after all Urien is probably the strongest fighter Gill knows or known for a long period (who knows if in ASF he consider Urien better than Bison or not) below himself. And Gill respect strong fighters.
Gill surely wanted Urien in his Utopia
Still is a patronizing, superiority filled “respect”… like “you’re the best of mortals, congratulations”… wich is still somehow sincere on Gill side and at same time insulting like nothing else for somebody like Urien
Notice how it’s not a defeat that made Urien mad at him like never before, but a fake win lol
That was probably first time in Urien’s life he felt finally superior to Gill best-moment-evah, only to discover Gill gone “Great! Good boy, you won! Bravo!” proud, entusiast , pretending-to-lose dad on him, before gifting him Presidency like some kid’s toy lol
Urien is’nt even mad at Gill being superior, or at least he will be LESS mad if Gill gave him some epic Achilles vs Hector duel.
Deep down everybody knows Hector was underdog destined to be wrecked at the end, but fuck it, that epic fight give glory even to the loser
Gill did’nt even gave him that, he took his own superiority as a fact (likely being correct) and moved on directly on chosing consolation prize for his poor human lil bro LOL
I had similar theory, but in two versions (first being yours)
In both Urien is butthurt about something regarding past, the words seem hint it’s a memory able to make Urien angry.
Well, labrador puppies probably make Urien angry too, let’s say angrier LOL
Option A: recent events
Essentially what you said, at some point Urien and Gill find Tom, who was pointed by SS as a traitor/enemy that must die.
Of course they don’t go 2 vs 1
And of course Urien is first to want kill destroy etc, also to return SS home with the enemy head. He killed the traitor, not Gill!
Gill in usual dad-mode let Urien go and Urien get ass beated as you said.
Wich may even be Urien’s true first loss ever as adult/peak condition fighter
Then Gill goes in serious and win → Urien mad as fuck
Option B: remote past
This is simple, but i find it a cool idea
Tom was Gill/Urien/others Pankration Master (no elemental/ki/illuminati techniques, just the martial art itself) back to SS training days, and was first to recognize/point Gill’s talent (above Urien/others), essentially the birth of Urien’s hate
Aside that it can even give a cool meaning to Gill going serious, taking a fight with his former Master as a true final test for himself (after that in sf3 he will not use fights to test himself, but to test opponents right to be in the Utopia)
We can go even more wild guessing, the “fair” part Tom say may even mean Gill did’nt used fire/ice/specialshit powers to have an advantage but won a straight pankration fight
Damn story wise Tom have so much potential
But even on general, there’s no npc char i will like more to become a playable char
I love the Urien/Tom theory. I was never a fan of making NPCs playable, much less master characters who already have a pupil (Gouken, Goutetsu), but that theory has spun me right into the camp wanting Tom in the game. And seeing how they’ve worked in Zeku… well, yeah, I’m into it! Jean Reno likeness please, or what’s the point? And maybe a new name. A least call him Thomas or something.
Thanks, tbh i’m just trying to connect dots capcom left like 20+ years ago and never touched since then lol
As for getting a Master of somebody already in the game it helps in my mind Tom is’nt much alike Alex… much more technical and removing the pro-wrestling vibe, going into MMA direction (Tom is a MMA istructor)
Ironically SFV 100% gone after some actors/real people as inspiration for some characters look, if we ever get Tom (it’s S5 or never lol) will love it to be based on “Leon the professional” Jean Reno
I guess in Gill story we will see Bengus design him (wich can hint the direction of a potential canon look) and not some kiki/udon thing
Tbh i just prefer they keep “Tom”, is how we know him in SF3 and SFV directly link to it
BUT
You make me think a thing making me focus on the name
That may be a big stretch and likely just a coincidence, but if we stick to Bible theme inspiration, we already know
Gill → Messiah → Jesus
Urien → Traitor Apostle → Judah the Apostle
…
Tom → Thomas the Apostle ?
Knows also as “doubting Thomas”
Another of the 12 Apostles, he’s mostly famous to be the one who did’nt believed at first about Jesus resurrection, he was essentially the skeptical of the group
As Urien was linked to Judah’s betrayal, maybe Tom can be linked to Thomas in his lack of faith in a divine Messiah
Kage isn’t a real character, as in physical. He literally exists inside the mind of Ryu and has been shown to be able to invade the dreams of others through some sort of world wide web of spirituality.
I don’t think he can possess other bodies. He’s the shadow that Ryu casts and all that changed is that Ryu has chosen to face the light and leave his shadow behind.
Kage is the manifestation of Satsu no Hadou for Ryu. It doesn’t mean not a real character, his basically a spiritual and also psychic manifestation.
That haunts and taunts other warriors like Akuma and the rest. Not just something that exist solely to Ryu mind or a fragment or Ryu imagination. Kage is the end of Evil Ryu.
It mean he exist to anyone that had engagement or interaction with SAtsui no hadou.
Many animated movie and othed media portrays akuma as the one that tease and taunt ryu in dreams but those are false because Akuma doesn’t had psychic linking or a power of telepathy unlike Rose and Bison.
