zz

This thread is meant for those with some experience to the game and have the above average knowledge to team and solo dynamics. I suggest you go to the NEWBIES thread and learn how to do combos instead of mashing.

http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=124324

And a side note - being cocky in here won’t do you any good… there’s always going to be someone better than YOU…(gaming and LOOKS) Plenty of guys in here can get girls who are many leagues above you no matter how much you would like to think people wish you were their girl!

I have a question as well.

What do you think about Mag/Sent/Cyke and MSCyke?

What gives these teams trouble and what are the keys to winning with it?

Also, what good matchups would these teams have?

Also could you explain the makings of a good Cyke player? I know it’s not like one of the top four but I figured I’d ask.

No that’s a good question. I’d like to know your thoughts on Cyke as well.

I think the teams are OKAY, not great. I posted earlier about sent/cyke, but this team at least has mags (assuming he’s still alive) to have a strong assist for sentinel. Msp gives this team trouble, thrax, scrub, mss, sscable, combo, and a few more i can’t think of right now. I think this team pretty low tiers, because you’re basically limiting yourself (in the case of mag/storm/cyke) from all the benefits of msp. Yeah, you have a better assist for fighting sentinel, and it works, but double snap is where its at for magneto players.
Key’s to winning: mag must be defensive on this team, rushdown is permissible with mscyke, but even then you should pretty much be playing it as a counter/keep-away style. One hit from cyke = infinite. The resets on this team aren’t THAT great, but there are some that i’ve seen that are pretty good. Storm/cyke is where this team thrives; this combo is broken. You can either rush or keep away. It’s up to you and how you feel about that match/opponent. Any time you see cyke hit you can hail or combo -> into a 50/50 on wake-up. In the case of sent/cyke I wrote about it a few posts ago. Unless you can fight the up-hill battle everytime, then its not worth it. I would say pick storm instead of mag/sent/cyke. Unless you really like having mag, storm is much better on the team in almost all fights. Like I said, this team has very little favorable match ups. It’s like probably a top 15 team, if that. To be great with sent/cyke also requires learning the unblockable semi-infinite in the corner. That and learning how to land unblockable after cyke hits. Even then, a smart mags/storm/cable can escape it through flight/gun.

Degree of difficulty for mag/sent/cyke:
usefulness: 6
execution: 8
Overall Team dynamics: 4

mag/storm/cyke:
usefulness: 7
execution: 9
Overall Team dynamics: 6-7

Order of the top 10 teams:

  1. storm/sent/Cyke
  2. MSP
  3. Clockw0rk
  4. Thrax
  5. Scrub
  6. SScable
  7. Combo
  8. Sent/Cable/Cyke
  9. MSS
    9a. MSS-drones

11:row
12. Cable/Sent/Doom
13. manthrax
14. sspsy
15. mscyke
16. mst
17. mscap
18. mag/sent/cyke
19. Cable/Storm/cyke
20. Watts
20-10950928409230492834: don’t even matter. 11-20 are all bleh
Everything else is use-able, but not great imo. Variations of ms/xx are all as good as the user.

Consider a hardcore rushdown player who learns attack strings inside and out, learns how to move around helpers ect, all the basics that you would expect a mid lvl player to learn.

then

The same player wants to learn defensive tactics as well as zoning and keepaway(boost up the patience)

what kind of advice would you give?
Patience requires avoiding assists both full screen, midscreen, and next to the opponent. I would say the bare essence of this tactic is counter calling, but it is so much more than that. Understanding how moves hit and the lag associated with them, is how you become a defensive guru. For instance, mag dashes in and does c.lk launch, you should be able to punish that launch EVEN when your opponent throws out an em disruptor. Small things like that are a microcosm of becoming a defensive minded player. Another example, would be avoiding sentinel beams FULL SCREEN and not getting hit and zoning/building meter.

what are the keys to using this style to better read your opponents?
Well, its more about noticing patterns. This style prevents you from doing dumb stuff. If you’re far away you cannot be hit, and at the same time cannot hit them, but this is good if you can READ what your opponent is trying to do. You must enter their brain and predict what their goal is. what are they doing what they’re doing? What are they trying to accomplish with their style? Should I be attacking him? Should I be running away? all these questions must be answered while you’re playing the match. Every decision you make it a reflection of what you’re thinking. Defensive players should not make mistakes or attack when its inopportune. Reducing bad decision prevent losing the match. In my idiot opinion, it actually leads to your opponent making terrible decisions that directly lead to victory. To sum it up, you ever have that feeling where you regret attacking because it led to you getting fucked up? A defensive player rarely feels this way because he/she knows that there is very little reason to have put yourself in that position in the first place.

how can defensive style give you insights into your opponents play style?
Defensive players have to be analytical. You must observe for trends, you cannot play mindlessly, unlike all magneto players. You react to what your opponent gives you and punish their riskiness/retardation. To be a great player, not necessarily a top player, you need to differentiate when its optimal to attack and when to run/defend. For instance, if you have the lead what do you do? Do you keep attacking to try and end the match, or do you run and protect the lead? Answering this should tell you your style, a great player will know that at times and in other instances you do the opposite. When exactly do you do either one? You should consider: opponent, time, situation (both irl and in the game), screen positioning, assists, life, life of assists, teams (both sides), patterns, clutch, heart. EVERYTHING matters. However, your decision defines you. I can tell you what I would do though analyzing a video, but I still haven’t decided on one, especially since youtube doesn’t work on my computer.

Which players do you feel use both styles together the most effectively? Like I said, great players do. Few msp players do, only the best i.e. yipes, chris s, soo. I use it, bill does, sanford (at times), jwong, sin, combo, chunksta (sometimes), cablebitch, a few more.

some of these questions might be basic for some people, but i think to many that these would be useful teaching tools.
Maybe I left some tools off, but it seems that magnetos can’t fight sentinels. I can’t teach this, you need to understand spacing, if sentinel is throwing out a slow move, you should sj air dash and attack. It’s simple imo. When you include baiting, it gets harder, but that is just another pattern you need to adapt too. I cannot spoon-feed everyone how to play. It’s a natural progression and evolution, unless you learn msp. It’s just rinse and repeat.

ps. come to final round, we will get u hype again to play marvel, shit is too much fun
fuck marvel

Think im banned from youtube, but i figured out how to watch shit on that.

let me know what vids ya’ll want me to analyze

Someone mentioned high level/mid level, or top/top

no low tiers plz, waste of time in my stupid ass fucking opinion

Yo Peeps! I’m practically brand new at playing MVC2. This game is so vast which requires a great deal to learn. Damn, I’m seeing terms like Guardbreaking, infinites, combos, spacing, zoning, countering, etc. I’m scratching my head like wtf!? On the real, I’m use to playing Madden and decided to switch over MVC2 for the sake of taking on a new challenge. What are at least four focal points that any new player need to work on in order to develop a solid foundation at playing mvc2?

  1. execution
  2. strategy
  3. anticipation [read your opponent like a newspaper]
  4. a whole lot of experience

boom, outta here

boom, outta here

I’ve got a question I don’t think I’ve heard before:

I think MSP is like 85% Mag/Psy. Tempest DHC hailstorm and lightning storm dhc tempest are just icing on the cake. Mag/Psy just has so much BS that it can almost make up for any middle character. This is not like Santhrax or any other team I can think of, really. What are your thoughts on this?

Do you agree with the opinion that MSP is really MP, and no other character really works well with Psy as well as Magneto, so Storm is the next best thing?

I agree and I disagree. nothing really fits in the middle aside from storm, and to become a top msp you need to have an excellent storm/psy. Storm/psy is a lot more solid than mag/psy. It doesn’t have the snapbackability, but it can comeback + corner mixups. I’d say you’re correct for below-mid-above average players. Top-players though, you should be alert when storm/psy comes in. The match is never over. Even then, only about 3 players can actually come back with storm on a consistent basis: soo, yipes, chris s. That’s just about it. Maybe wong, but i said earlier hes a ss player, as is sanford. So yes, for about 98% of the time, m/p is 85-90% of msp, if not higher. I posted earlier how people do not use this due effectively. It’s just there to take up space it seems. I, as should most, have no fear, especially with the lead, when storm/psy comes in and I have sent/anything.

Next best thing is nothing. storm is a safe dhc, offers a viable tournament winning/saving/recovering duo.

But who am I? You should ask pipionASS, he’s placed top 3 at evo.

:rofl::rofl: i see what u did there

Don’t ask me, mine don’t matter. I’m only placed top 3 at evo and I just like spittin out what’s my opinion. Ask potter, he’s the best in the world.

mess with the best die like the rest…

I suggest [media=youtube]DwmXwt56cgI[/media]

This is Sanford and Yipes playing FT10 with their respective teams.

Counter teams

Okay Pottri, here’s a question, do you think there are true counters in Marvel? For example, Santhrax vs MSP, MSP vs Row, Matrix vs Clock, etc. Okay, for example. Say I’m a hardcore MSS player. I play other teams every now and then, but MSS is my main team. Do you think if I run into a MSP player I should use Santhrax? How practical are “counters” in this game? This game is so big and open ended that the more the game evolves, the more counters seem to fade away. What is your take on counter teams and countering in general?

You’re right, counters are slowly fading out of mvc3; HOWEVER, the advantage will always be there. They are still very practical, especially mentally i.e. Erik counterpicking. It is more so apparent with certain players/regions. For instance, thrax would still imo beat everyone in the south, but it wouldn’t work on msps from nor cal. Another example, if I were to pick matrx on your team clock, the team and my experience should definitely triumph your team clock, even without really seeing your differences from clockw0rk. Also, since I know how to correctly counter with that team, the advantage is even more pronounced. Counters do not necessarily have to be teams, but styles/characters that certain players are not good against. So, its not as simple as msp > mss, rather it’s this guy cannot fight <insert character> so I’m going to build a team around this character and have an advantage. Developing styles/teams for individual players is great imo, it just takes a lot of time and experimenting. However, I am almost 100% certain that by doing this you can find the weakness of your opponent with one team or another. Doing this requires learning more characters at high level.

It depends on who you’re playing with mss; if it some wack ass msp player, I would rock mss. Still, there is always the random factor. I would actually recommend that you pick MSP over thrax. The best way to beat random is to be random as well. Plus, most msp players can’t block, all they know is triangle jumps and resets. Put them in that situation and watch how terrible most of their defenses are.

yes, but i need to know what people don’t understand from the matches…

I cannot analyze it all word for word what is happening. What part doesn’t make sense, or if you have question why they did something ask me, and I can elaborate, and give my opinion whether it was good/bad decision.

BTW it’s very easy to criticize videos, but much harder to actually win when playing live, but hindsight is how you learn the game. Hindsight + practice

Question about refly:
what’s the difference between sent’s lk, refly, lk, refly, lk… etc and just spamming lk while flying? Faster recovery?
My execution sucks, so refly isn’t a reliable tactic in tournaments.

or you can just work on your execution until its better :rolleyes: