ETOTHENG: So, much like Vega’s super, you only execute and/or drain your super ONLY when you can actually land it, and if you whiff or are out of range, it just does a SPD? I’ve been suspicious that this is the behavior, but was chalking up my whiffs with no super loss as lucky or poor execution on my part leading to luck. That’s pretty effing hot. I should be risking FABs all the time if I’m in range, it basically can’t whiff if that’s the case.
What I came here for though was Vega (claw), specifically a turtling Vega. My best friend plays an excellent turtle Vega, he knows that I can stuff pretty much anything he does to me offensively with Zangief (I’ve read this whole thread to this point, and I already knew all these tricks and have some of my own, vs. wall dives, jump ins, rolls, you name it). But when he just sits and turtles, it’s very difficult for me to get in. We play a lot of footsie, but most cases he stuffs or trades, and even in scenarios where I clean hit, I’m a little too far to get anything else off (except that I suspect I should be following with SPDs and I’m not fast enough to do or think about it, because I’m so used to NOT clean hitting…).
Examples:
-j.Anything is met with Flip Kicks or s.RH, occasionally I can trade j.RH vs. a low strong and I can usually follow up, so far this is the best option, but since it’s my only option, it’s hard to bait/mindgame/mix-up with.
-c.Anything is usually met with poking c.Strong. Vega’s c.Strong is a really good poke, and every now and then I can c.RH or c.Fierce it to beat. I usually follow the beat with hop or green hand, but by then he’s usually recovered enough to spam c.Strongs again til I’m out of range.
-c.Jabs at high speed isn’t too bad, though it’s often a trade moreso than clean stuff vs. c.Strong, and on hit it really can’t be followed since he’s not really put into a useful length hitstun from that at that range. We’re talking barely the edge of the claw. Most often though, what’ll happen is we’ll both be spamming, c.Str for him, c.Jab for me, and we’re each outside the range of the other. He’s got ultimate patience (or a life lead) and I need to inch in to re-spam, but usually when I do, I inch too far, right into the strong.
-Green hands of different strengths have varying results, it seems like jab GHs stuff more frequently, but then I’ll go to chain into another GH to get in and he’s recovered in time to jab, str, str, str me out of range again. Or, fierce GH gets stuffed most often because it comes out so slow. Strong GH I haven’t used a lot, but I expect similar results.
-Lariat of any kind, met with a c.RH slide. I sometimes try to bait him with these, inching up, then kick lariating backward waiting for the slide, then hop at, but really that resets the trap more often than not.
-Hop eats c.Strong pretty much. He hardly sweeps/slides, and usually when he does, I’ve had to hop from way out of range, and the slide has long enough frames that even if I jump the slide, I still eat the tail end of it before I land.
For the record, he hardly even goes on offense if I play Zangief. The Vega poking defense is pretty damn solid vs. Zangs, at least in my experience.
Also, word to the others out there: I’ve played a few decent/good Dhalsims out there, and yes they’re a pain, but I have best luck with spamming c.Jabs vs. limbs (hardly any damage, but annoys him) (and PS, spamming c.Jabs needs to be done REALLY fast, against Honda headbutts, Blanka rolls, everything… there’s a lot of people in this thread saying “well that doesn’t work for me” or “that hardly works” or “where did you get that”. I can PROMISE you, you’re just not doing it fast enough, cuz it works all the time for me). Once I’ve poked enough limbs, or for that matter most Dhalsims in zombie mode will go on to the next step anyway: yoga fire. This should be predictable, do a jab GH to stuff it and immediately chain into fierce GH and you should hit, chain that into SPD and you have him on the run. Keep up pressure while he’s down with j.Splash (crossup optional) > c.Jab spam > GH > SPD, or, skip the j.Splash and go to the meaty c.Jabs > GH > SPD. Once you’re in, he’s done, pretty much. And getting into Sim, my best luck has been bait the fireball, jab swat the fireball, follow with fierce GH.