Zangief strategy etc

Classic Fighting Games SSF2T: HD Remix
121

Yes you can beat (usually trade) HHS with sweep. Not from too close of course.

Weird thing about Honda is that he has a funny bounce after spd which allows you to get in range again for another tick spd when he gets up. Far s.short into spd over and over is enough to beat most Hondas online… but Hondas worth their salt are not something you can easily do meaty ticks against. Anyone got an answer for his wake-ups? I can try jumping at the last second to make the headbutt whiff, but Gief is fat, and I suck at it anyways. Anything you try to do to stop the headbutt will just get beat by a buttslam anyhow.

Headbutt in general is a bitch, and I find the jabbing thing lame. It works, and is great from afar. But anywhere closer than half screen is like pulling teeth. When you can predict one (and cancel into green hand :P) it’s nice, but trying to hit random headbutts while walking in that close makes me feel like retard, as I spam-inch-spam-inch, and end up getting hit by the damn thing anyways. Almost worth the risk of doing the lariat just for ease of use and to save my sanity. Almost. :stuck_out_tongue:

One thing all characters have though against the headbutt is to simply jump back. If you can bait the headbutt (simply walk into a certain range against a lot of Hondas) just jump back. If you bait him right, he will fly underneath harmlessly, bounce off the wall, and you land next to him and can do whatever the hell you want. If he doesn’t fly underneath you, but AT you, a lot of characters still have an answer for headbutt when jumping back.

After a blocked buttslam is a good time to practice your reversal 360s.

Interesting note, is that if honda hits you with HHS, especially the strong/fierce versions, from in sweep range, it’s technically a free SPD for gief. It’s not a combo, so you can reversal 360 after the first hit.

But trying to do so, and failing, HURTS. :stuck_out_tongue:

122

super is a pain in the ass to get off now for me…

123

huh what? you know that you can still do the old motion right?

124

AFAIK the old motion doesn’t work either by bug or by design.

125

you can do 720 if you go from right to left, since the game will count it as 2 x hcb, ub, so it’s not official, but it does work.
you can start with down, do a 720 clockwise ending with down again at it will come out.
the only motion that is bugged is hcf x2, b from left to right =(

126

The timing and distance may be a little tricky at first but stand about max low-RH distance (maybe a little closer) as Honda is getting up. Do a late jump in down+forward (knees). If Honda does a wake-up jab-headbutt, you stuff it and should get a SPD attempt. However if Honda does a wake-up sumo splash this will hit you.

If you can consistently stuff it, this will make Honda a little wary of doing wake up headbutts and you can start going for other attacks and set-ups.

127

Just popping in to reiterate that Honda is by far Gief’s [current] most difficult matchup in HDR.

It’s so bad, that your opposing Honda can literally just sit with downback all day, and as long as he times headbutts properly, he will beat you. No questions asked.

A lot of the answers in this thread vs Honda are pretty good info to keep in mind, but in all honesty there is currently no clear cut strategy. If you try spamming cr/st.jabs, Honda can still sneak in and hit you with headbutt. Whiffing a st.roundhouse or, ugh, whiffing a green hand, just means you get to eat another headbutt.

Whatever you do, do NOT try using the lariat during spin, to beat the headbutt. He will almost always beat you out. The only exception is doing a PPP lariat, moving backwards, while he’s doing a jab headbutt…on a tuesday morning, after having coffee, yadda yadda you get my point :rolleyes:

IF you have the reflex, the only 100% sure fire way to beat the headbutt is to time the lariat so you lariat Honda during the first/first couple of frames. It will always beat him out. But timing that is very very difficult.

If you HAPPEN to knock down Honda (Bad Honda if you do :rofl:) You must absolutely take advantage of the knockdown. The only good side against Honda is that crossing him up at the right time usually means you always have some advantage. Since his buttslam only moves him forward and not so much straight up like an SRK, he will miss you and leave himself open. Not to mention, a late splash will knock him out of the buttslam (However, he will reset and not take a knockdown, so be VERY careful not to eat a reversal headbutt/oichio).

Just make sure when you cross up, that if he happens to block/take the hit from the splash instead of reversaling his way out, that you throw at least 2-3 cr.jabs to push him far enough to give you SPD range, and NOT give him Oichio range.

We gotta work together to fight this. So far it feels like a Brawl matchup :shake: That’s just no good.

128

I’ve played against a number of turtle Hondas and while I’ll in no way say that it’s an easy match (it is a difficult match), I’ve fared very well in this match by using the strategies I have mentioned above.

Also, the lariats aren’t as bad as people are making it out to be against the torpedo, especially a well timed KKK lariat. Learning how to use that, as well as the jumping knees is KEY to beating Honda in this match.

I’m actually mainly a Honda player but I’ve been a Zangief player on and off for a long time and I learned a lot from watching and playing against Jodim (legendary Zangief player on GGPO). There are some replays of our matches that MiloDC has saved and put up on his page here -

http://stash.miloonline.net/ggpo/ssf2t__Jodim_vs_Kuroppi_01.fr
http://stash.miloonline.net/ggpo/ssf2t__Jodim_vs_Kuroppi_02.fr

(If you don’t have Final Burn and the SSF2T roms, you will need them to view the replays. I think there are instructions on how to view it in the GGPO forums?)

Granted this is ST, not HDR and I’ve always had a suspicion that he has a turbo button but that doesn’t take away from his overall skill with Zangief and the basic strategies for fighting against Honda are the same.

Anyway, you can see him kicking my butt in a number of games here. :slight_smile: Look at how well he uses the down+fierce splash and especially the down+forward knees against Honda’s wake-up headbutt and even from a varying distances and he does have that ability to time the lariat well against the torpedo that you mentioned. But I’ve always felt that his best trait was his ability to hit those jump in meaty attacks. If you miss your wake-up reversal as Honda, you lose your charge and you’re screwed unless the Ochio can save you. If you block the jump in meaty, you leave Zangief way too many options to set up the SPD tick. Jodim was a master at this and it is key against Honda as well as any other character.

129

depending on where they hit you, block it and spd them. I had one guy that just wouldn’t learn…that’s all i did the whole match.

130

Gief issues vs. Chun

I was playing remix HD as gief and had the HARDEST time getting in on Chun. maybe i just suck, but when i wake up , lightning legs, when I jump in she does the whirlwind kick that goes up and down. any strats on fighting chun ?

131

Don’t Chun Li’s Lightning Legs have shorter range than the throw ranges on Zangief’s Spinning Pile Driver and Final Atomic Buster? A wake-up throw with reversal timing will grab her every time.

My suggestion: Get good at doing reversal special throws. That’ll stop her from standing over you…or even standing next to you when you’re on your feet…and might even make her think that jumping at you while you’re down is the next best option. Not an easy fight, but this will get you over the hurdle you presented.

Also, if she’s constantly hitting you out of the air, you need to beef up your ground game. Poke at her with interruptable normal moves buffered into either the Banishing Hand to get close and grab her or the Running Grab if she constantly blocks. You have to play mind games with Zangief, as his game is centered around getting close and throwing. Chun Li shouldn’t be able to sit and turtle against you. Her strength in this matchup is when she’s constantly running away. Then…you have a problem.

132

What’s a good counter against Cammy’s Hooligan throws…

133

SPD, maybe, but definitely not the super. Gief’s super actually has pretty bad range, the same as shoto throws. Meanwhile, T.Hawk’s super has the same range as his 360. =(

Good stuff otherwise, though!

134

I actually have something to say, that I have never in my entire life ever said before: After playing this matchup so much lately (Against GOOD Chun’s mind you) I don’t think the matchup is any more in her favor than it is in Gief’s.

:amazed::amazed::amazed: Like I said, I’ve NEVER disagreed with a matchup that’s been pretty cut and dry before, so that’s just how confident I am to say that.

This isn’t to say that an amazing Chun player can’t challenge me and mop the floor with me…but I’ve come to believe that Gief has better opportunities moving in on Chun than I used to think (I mean, as far as I know HD Remix hasn’t changed this matchup all that much, but I could be wrong).

If we both turtle, she has the projectiles, but they aren’t as good as Ryu’s for instance. Plus she sticks her hands out pretty far that I can usually knock her down if I predict it with a close lariat. Not to mention if I green hand it, I don’t risk eating a quick SRK.

Her lightning legs don’t push her forward like Honda, AND are easier to jump over and j.fierce her (Seriously, I’ve jumped over her kicks at almost point blank range).

However the reason I (And probably other Giefs) had so much problems with her, was her jumping kicks. Then I found out what a GODSEND Gief’s j.strong is. Hits higher than his other attacks, I usually always cleanly beat out Chun (You might have to predict the jumps, but matchup discussion is usually assuming both players are fairly good).

In fact, I am starting to believe her only safe offense towards Gief is arc’d SBK --> lightning legs.

One last thing, assuming you’re SPD timing is good, you’ll see more SPD’s then you will see her throwing you.

135

Hi guys, I’m new here and to street fighter in general (sort of, I’ve played a lot of the other games before but very casually), how the heck do you beat blanka as gief? I just played a good blanka and won one match out of like 25 in a row. I took a round in most matches, but he always seemed to be a little better than me. I think the player in general was better than me, but still, it doesn’t seem like an easy matchup at all. I can’t really advance on the ground or i’ll probably eat a roll. I read somewhere that cr. jabs stuff the rolls but for some reason it kept hitting me. when I try to jump in I usually eat a crouching fierce or a vertical roll. help! usually if I got him into a corner, I could maybe spd him two times or so, but I think I also need to learn some better ways to set them up. I usually do a j.knee and then spd or some other variation.

Also, I had no good way of stopping his jump ins. His j. attack beats the lariat all the time. The only ways that I found were the hop and j.strong, but i usually ate a lot of damage if i guessed wrong with those. am i missing something?

136

I walk slowly in mashing cr jab and if he jumps go with jump RH… I’m sure others have better plans.

137

Come on gief players help me out, im more of hyper fighting guy so dont know the matchup with Cammy…What’s a good counter move against the Hooligan throw…

How do you guys pull off a tick(standing) SuperSPD…

138

cr.jab works really well for a standing spd, but i can’t do the super fast enough on the ground at all, I usually jump in with forward, roundhouse, or fierce and try to enter the super in before i land

139

What do people use to stuff Honda’s drill? I tend to go with cr jab since I’m bad at timing the RH, but I’m very open. =(

140

Lariat. Keep your fingers on Lariat, and try to do it late enough so you hit her on the first frame of the Lariat, which as a huge hit box. Or just Stabd Jab.

  • James