yep… it needs dp priority. i’m asking for like two more frames on it, then the matchup becomes competitive. i’ll still play the matchup, but it is the one i hate the most when it’s a good turtle. i hate the matchup more than akuma.
Yeah, but the only reason that works for you Mole, is cuz you’re godly with the Lariat vs Torpedoes, especially vs MisterEgoTrip’s Honda. Personally, cr.Jab spam works well for me. For Claw’s Wall Dives, I prefer j.Strong or cr.Fierce depending on spacing. I only use Lariats vs Claw on wakeup, and sometimes to mixup between j.Strong and cr.Fierce.
The only problem with spamming cr.Jabs to beat Torpedoes, is what to do after. Honda’s not knocked down, and he’s too far for me to do anything other than a meaty cr.Roundhouse at max range and/or hope he does nothing and walk up tick, SPD.
Well i also main with zangief along with fei and i have a really hard time with this match, oh well two tips
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Lariat stuffs e honda’s super, as long as you use it when he is about to reach you, if use it early and you have a 50/50 shot of being hit with the full super since only one arm has a hitbox, same thing with his headbutt.
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crouching jab and now green hand beats the hundred hands remember this, his crouching jab beat hundred hand slap in ST and in HDR the hands have less priority:smile:
If you know the super is coming, dont you think its risky to go for a lariat? Jumping knee drop seems to beat out headbutt & supers cleanly. Jumping splash trades & sometimes wins. I only use this when im ahead…
Green hand seem to be a really effective move against honda. It beats out hundred hand slaps, torpedoes, & gets you closer to honda.
Still this is one hell of a lopsided match IMO. Lariat needs to have more priority. Maybe greenhand knocks down might help too…
Also im wondering does PS3/360 have a difference? I remember when i was playing PS3 i didn’t have problems w/ Hondas as i can lariat their torpedo headbutts but for 360 i cant seem to time cuz it comes out faster. Or it could just be 360 hondas are just better…
Why bother with Lariat when cr.Jab stuffs Super? No gambling, no 50/50, 100% stuff.
Banishing Fist is better in Remix, but like I said earlier, cr.Jab beats Torpedoes and Slaps. I only use Banishing Fist to whiff from mid range for a surprise SPD.
I’ve heard that XBOX’s speed is faster than PS3.
aww man i screwed up i mean its a fifty-fifty shot if you dont use it when e honda is right about to hit you. On the first rotation the hitbox is directly in front of him and not behind, in other words you have to do it on reaction not anticipation. At the moment i cannot think of a stable strategy to beat the sumo headbutt on anticipation. I need help with this too as i also main with zangief along with fei long(much better with fei though against e honda). Well if you want to get a little closer, you can use standing medium kick from its maximum range into running bear grab, in some situations its damn near guaranteed. This is one of his more useful pokes. Also i watch zangief match videos for ST, since vids for hd remix are rare. Heres 2 that shows this match up is winnable and how to do it.
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But at the same time going for a lariat even though there is a fifty-fifty shot against a regular headbutt is sometimes worth it, my reasoning for this is, your opponent may think that its not worth going for a fifty-fifty shot either. Also keep in mind Zangief’s high stamina(itll hurt him alot more than itll hurt you if whether gief loses out or wins) After seeing more of his lifebar gone than yours after flying headbutts even though he wins and loses a couple of exchanges will discourage e honda from going for the fifty-fifty shot each and every time. But are there better ways to deal with HHS other than crouching jab or green hand? Its still tough, the first was pure zangief domination until the crazy crossup combo of e honda’s, made me think the match was in zangief’s favor lol. But i take more risk with zangief against e honda, i found it quite unwinnable without taking risk.
Edit: Those two vids arent mine give credit to the people who made them
It’s definitely possible and I have it on video. Here are two evoanon matches vs me where he SPDs my fierce headbutts near their startup. I’ve also been SPD’ed out of fullscreen headbutts a couple times but unfortunately I don’t have those recorded.
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i don’t think the knee takes headbutts out clean, i think the off timing of it (more frames) can throw a honda off, but i’d say fifty-fifty and only because the honda guessed wrong. in the kakki/kusumundo vid (first one) you posted bulldancer, zang eats a headbutt at 52 seconds. if it were clean, i would beat most hondas easily. remember i said “most” before anyone jumps on my back…
banishing hand is punishable by ochio and headbutts. if you know a headbutt is coming, you can hit a headbutt much like catching a boom or fb, but you guess wrong, you eat hundred hands or headbutt while in recovery.
there’s gotta be more than fifty-fifty’s to make this a viable match. give me one of the following (i just need one):
a-lariat has dp priority.
b-knee takes out headbutt cleanly.
c-jumping fierce or splash takes out headbutts cleanly.
d-zang’s alpha df rh. (my favorite)
e-jab banishing hand is safe on block.
tied for worst matchup in the game.
Make sure you’re jumping back w/ the knee not towards Honda. Its a great way to try to get Honda in the corner…i’ll try to record it next time i play a honda.
This sets up an akward landing for Honda which sets up a deep crossover if you jump instantly. Most people fall for the cross up body splash into ducking forward into lariat for a dizzy. Repeat this after the dizzy and the round is over.
I have known that Honda’s Torpedo can be SPD’d on startup, but I have not seen a fully-airborne Torpedo SPD’d. I have heard a few people say this, but I have yet to see a shred of video evidence showing this. Thelo, if you can post such a vid, I would positive rep you into infinity. That, and you can also have my firstborn son. Seriously. LOL
At 19 seconds…I wish that was possible in HDR. Never seen anything like that!
yeah, one of the changes to remix.
“In HD Remix, I removed the storing property on the super, but greatly improved the super. It now knocks down on the first hit and juggles (with itself). That means if you hit with it from full screen, the first hit will knock down, the second hit will then juggle them, then they will be fully knocked down. Even though it doesn?t do much damage from that distance, it functions correctly and gives you a chance to pressure them as they get up, which is exactly what Honda wants to do. Remember that this move can destroy fireballs, too, just like it did in ST. Also, because of the new juggling property, if you hit with it at just the right range (pretty close, but not point-blank) you can get a three hit version that does about 50% damage, even as anti-air. In practice, I think it will be pretty rare to hit with it in that way because the opponent usually has to make some major mistakes to ever put himself into a situation where it could even happen. More likely, you?ll just get the 20% or so from the 2-hit version from far away.”
taken from sirlin.net
are you saying you can jump in and then hold down-back knee, or are you saying you have to jump back and then do the knee? (please let it be option 1)
yeah, i was hoping that option 1 was what you were saying when i first read your post, but option 2 sounds more realistic. this helps a lot, but not in the way i was hoping… i want a rushdown option.
So I was messing around with Zangief tonight…
Often after a SPD, I would try to green hand to get closer, but would get a SPD whiff instead. I figured I was just screwing up, but then I started to completely release the stick after the first SPD, and then very explicitly do the fireball motion, and I was still getting a SPD! wtf, is this a known glitch?
there are some screwy inputs in remix now. you can pull off 360 motions with just a half circle… like if you want to 2 in 1 low forward into running bear, half circle back low forward does the trick.
so if you’re trying to do a banish with a half circle motion, you might get an spd whiff animation instead. if you only 360 one direction no matter what way you’re facing, and then try to do a banishing hand, you actually might be doing a continuation of the original 360 motion and getting your whiff animation. try doing the spd in the opposite way of how you usually do it and then attempt to banish and see if that helps.
My SPD movement is generally db, d, df, f, uf + punch and it works. I found during matches though sometimes I felt I was doing a fireball motion yet SPDs still came out.
to do a green hand and make sure i dont wiff a SPD, i start with Down , not DB or back. so if im block or walking back, i make sure i go neutral then stright down to start the green hand, otherwise i always wiff a SPD.
i really dont like the new motion SPD much at all.
startup frames
can anyone tell me what the startup frames are for zang’s lariats and if the ppp has more than the kicks? also, can anyone tell me which version of sf has the least amount of startup frames… i read that for IV it’s 4 frames. thanks.
Like I would lie. 
Besides when I play Honda I’m not really going to headbutt unless Zangief jumps in at a range where I can’t anti-air with stand jab.
I will provide such a video and I’ll accept the rep. You can keep your son. Seriously. 
You sure you cant SPD after blocking the first hit? Honda’s old super was worthless, so I’m actually pretty glad that he cant be punished for actually hitting his super anymore.