Zangief strategy etc

[blitzfu]

I just wanted to say Zangief rocks!! I’ve used him before in previous SFs, but never this seriously. I’m addicted to SPDs!!

Had two quick questions:

Has anybody had any luck hitting Honda’s Torpedo with Lariat, the split second before it hits you? Whenever he does his Super, I can always hit the second Torpedo with Lariat, but haven’t been able to catch the regular Torpedo. I know cr.Jab works, but I want to knock him down, since I can’t jump on him.

Can Zangief’s Lariat (quick or slow) be used to counter Cammy’s Drill on reaction? I know the Slow Lariat is supposed to have a hit box that extends all the way to the bottom, but I haven’t had any luck hitting Cammy out of her Drill.

Thanks.

I have 2 questions for all my fellow zangief lovers.

1. With the corpse hop, how do I 100% get to the other side of the opponant as they are getting up from the ground? When I try pull and pull this off, I seem to have a less than 50% success rate in trying to do this.

2. When I do a SPD, how do I do it so that when I finish the SPD, I am much closer to my opponant? Does this depend on which punch button I press? I noticed that against honda, once I get in close, the round is more or less over… Against chun li however, as soon as I SPD I can’t get close to her. Does this all depend on the character I play against?

1. The Fierce Hop can cross over? I’m assuming you mean after a knockdown? Or are you talking about jump+down Fierce? If it’s j.Fierce, you have to cross them up deep. When they’re knocked down, walk into their body until you’re not moving forward anymore and then jump.

2. It all depends on which direction your facing. Basically, always do a SPD motion and end with forward. If you’re facing right, hcb, f. This will land you closer to the opponent. As opposed to hcf,b. The other way will land you farther, but it still has it’s uses (rarely, depends on the situation).

[TheGreatMole]

Yea Gief is a fun character to play in HDR. I didn’t start using him until this game came out. The new spd motion is much easier to pull off and the other motions discussed in this thread have made my life easier. Now I can do the FAB while standing on the right side lol.

The fierce hop can cross over a knocked down opponent, but you have to be pretty close. Easier to do on slower opponents like Gief or Sim.

I still have not quite figured out how to consistently hit Honda’s Torpedo with the Lariat. From what I have noticed, the fist part has to hit his head. I usually just use cr. jab to stop his torpedo and hand slap if they are spammed.
The banishing fist (BF) can knock Honda down from a torpedo, but you have to have pretty damn good timing/reaction to pull it off. The BF is better to use in close encounters when you know a torpedo is coming.
Another strategy to counter the torpedo is to purposely stand on either end of the stage and jump straight up/cross up with a splash or attack when the torpedo/super comes. Just react quick enough so you have time to jump over it. Not only can you get a free cross up, but it will get Gief close to Honda and open up different options.

Not sure about hitting Cammy out of her drill, but you have temporary invincibility from lower attacks during startup of the quick lariat. I have not tried this yet, but if you can react fast enough, you may be able to follow up the fast lariat with an attack or spd. The slow lariat probably would not work as it is vulnerable to sweep attacks. On the other hand, it can hit Sim’s cr. stretch punches on startup so there may be some promise there.

[blitzfu]

The quick Lariat’s low invincibility does not work against the Drill, cuz the Drill does not hit low, it can be blocked standing. I was hoping for the slow Lariat to hit her out of it, but it doesn’t seem possible.

I forgot about Green Hand hitting the Torpedo, good idea, thanks.

[System_1]

Im having trouble beating e honda who likes to tick throw into the ochio throw. If i try to jump and splash, I get hit with the jab headbutt. If I turtle I usally try to hit the honda headbutt with a lariat but most of the times I just trade. You pros got any tips??

Thanks!!

[Unscrubscribe]

Follow up to turtle Claws, particularly those that spam c.MP as a defensive poke.

After some more experimentation, I found that the only winning strategy is alternating between two losing strategies. The basic conundrum is this:
-If you get at the edge of c.MP range and spam c.WP yourself, you can often beat or trade the c.MP… but if Claw c.RH slides, you eat it every time.
-At the same range, if you c.RH, you will beat or trade greatly in your favor with either of Claw’s c.MP and c.RH slide… but Gief’s c.RH is so slow that it’s easy for Claw to time his slide to hit you between your spammed/poked c.RH sweeps.
*At this range, you’re out of range of all of Claw’s other options, he’d need to change his position, which is what I actually WANT him to do as Zangief, because Gief has answers for all Vega’s other moves.

Well, my best technique now has been to spam c.WP chop a few times, and at random, throw in a c.RH sweep. I usually do 1-3 WPs, then a RH, then 1-3 WP, another RH. Sometimes I double RH. Sometimes I triple. Sometimes I use 4 WPs before the RH. Whatever I do, I continually mix up that pattern so that Claw doesn’t know when to throw out his slide to beat my basic c.WP spam. On the whole, this has led to me beating more often than trading because I can psych out a turtling Claw into sliding into my sweep and I beat him clean for major damage and a knockdown. I also frequently get little WP pokes out of it, which could add up, every little bit helps.

After that knockdown, I actually don’t pursue for the meaty because if the opponent’s a good reversaler, the flip kicks aren’t fun for Zangs. I usually just inch up to the same range, just outside of his c.MP poke, and reset the situation. Occasionally I go for the very far reach, last minute meaty c.RH sweep because if they don’t expect that it’s another free knockdown and great damage. When things finally heat up are when I get Claw to the corner, then he’s forced to wall jump or otherwise change techniques because now we really are talking grounds for tick throws from green hands, meaty ticks for SPD, and the works. More importantly, since this breaks the turtle defense so often, after moving Claw to the corner just once, he learns not to rely on it. It forces him to mix up his strategy with his other attacks and turn offensive, thus eliminating the turtle issue all together.

[Mr.Trite]

Is there any attack that can beat the green hand?

[reaper2507]

Is there any attack that can beat the green hand?

dont know if a atack has higher priorety but the recovery from a block is awfull so why bother?

[raeli]

i’ve seen dp beat it out. imagine my frustration.

[FreshOJ]

Follow up to turtle Claws, particularly those that spam c.MP as a defensive poke.

snip

That, sir, is an awesome post. It’s like “Rose’s Low Strong” or something.

[iag25]

Is there a difference between which punch I use for my green hand ?

[reaper2507]

Is there a difference between which punch I use for my green hand ?

i just open this forum for the same question i did not find any diffrences in damage and range… so i guess no else everybody would use jab if there is a faster recoverytime or else

By the way does it make sense if a use a combo into tick spd to use the piano methode for timing or would this just be stupid?

[iag25]

I was playing against a chun yesterday, and all she did was jump , and what looks like a back air flip kick all day and i couldn’t do crap.

any suggestions/experience ?

[blitzfu]

i just open this forum for the same question i did not find any diffrences in damage and range… so i guess no else everybody would use jab if there is a faster recoverytime or else

By the way does it make sense if a use a combo into tick spd to use the piano methode for timing or would this just be stupid?

Doesn’t the Fierce Green Hand have the most range? Might be a tiny difference, but it feels like more range.

I didn’t get your question. Why would you use piano method for combos? Pianoing is mostly used for reversals, so reversal SPD after waking up or after blocking.

I was playing against a chun yesterday, and all she did was jump , and what looks like a back air flip kick all day and i couldn’t do crap.

any suggestions/experience ?

St. Roundhouse or late Slow Lariat.

[reaper2507]

Doesn’t the Fierce Green Hand have the most range? Might be a tiny difference, but it feels like more range.

I didn’t get your question. Why would you use piano method for combos? Pianoing is mostly used for reversals, so reversal SPD after waking up or after blocking.

St. Roundhouse or late Slow Lariat.

i did try to take a look on the range “pixel for pixel” did not see any diffrence. Pretty sure if there exist a dffrence its no damage and no range

piano methode semm to work better for tick spd but im not sure if its just imagination

[BeautifulViolence]

Follow up to turtle Claws…

I think I’m a pretty good defensive Claw player and those are some pretty good strategies, but a really smart Claw player will almost never attempt a slide against Z.

One thing must be said: you can’t be afraid to jump if you believe that Claw has lost his charge for the flipkicks. If you’re at the right angle, almost any jumping attack will trade in your favor. Try jumping d+mk and the splash, especially.
Even if you miss the splash completely, Claw will want to poke his mp out and that gives you a chance to sweep or even SPD. (I was playing someone the other night who would just barely whiff the body splash and I’d get pile-driven because I attempted a mp poke!)

[Endless]

I’m using Gief, and I either win big, or lose big.

After HP SPD, what is the fastest way to cover ground to get back to them?
Green Hand or Twd+HP? I use both, but I don’t know which is faster (but Green Hand is slightly safer)

[blitzfu]

i did try to take a look on the range “pixel for pixel” did not see any diffrence. Pretty sure if there exist a dffrence its no damage and no range

piano methode semm to work better for tick spd but im not sure if its just imagination

Ah ok, for tick>SPD pianoing will work great. I thought you were talking about cr.Jab>cr.Jab>cr.Roundhouse type combos.

I’m using Gief, and I either win big, or lose big.

After HP SPD, what is the fastest way to cover ground to get back to them?
Green Hand or Twd+HP? I use both, but I don’t know which is faster (but Green Hand is slightly safer)

I use f.Fierce. It is less safer, but covers more ground. I use it against big characters, cuz after an SPD on Honda or Hawk, f.Fierce will put me in range of another meaty st.Short>SPD, even when not in the corner. Effectively a never ending loop.

[kRaZzY]

what i do against honda’s headbutt is either green hand or lariats…with the lariat you have to move away from honda so gief’s fist can slap honda in the face/head =P

[duffath]

I’m using Gief, and I either win big, or lose big.

After HP SPD, what is the fastest way to cover ground to get back to them?
Green Hand or Twd+HP? I use both, but I don’t know which is faster (but Green Hand is slightly safer)

I use hand out of habit, although I think either hand or hop will be completely safe anyway.

Regardless of that you’ll want to get in the habit of handing in SF4 anyway, so maybe just stick with it.

[EA_Megaman]

what i do against honda’s headbutt is either green hand or lariats…with the lariat you have to move away from honda so gief’s fist can slap honda in the face/head =P

It’s only reliable when I’ve seen people start the lariat after I’ve done the headbutt. Otherwise I’ve seen the headbutt hit clean, or trade.

Low jab shuts that shit down real quick though. Just manage the spacing right and you’ll hit him out of hands and headbutts. Get too close and he’ll connect with the hands.

I find that I often get Gief players that aren’t patient enough against Honda. The guys I get lose to wait for an opening (slap out of hands + green hand + spd) and they dont screw up. A good tick against honda is the standing short into spd. If you manage the spacing right you are out of Ochio range. (At least I think you are because I haven’t managed to reversal Ochio out of that one.)

Against good Honda players (or players that are good with the Ochio) don’t jump in and try to tap throw with a jumping short. You will be setting yourself up for a reversal Ochio, every time. Avoid excessive use of the lariat. He’ll headbutt you or standing back FK.

Honestly it’s such an easy matchup for Honda. I rarely lose it. I wish you guys the best of luck in that match up…