Agreed. I hope they buff lariat to hit low at the very least but would appreciate a more consistent AA with it. I think we lose to regular throw because it takes us a frame to churn 360 and bam, they’re already regular throwing us. Make spd 4 frames and that should help without being game breaking.
There’s already cr.hp and jab, you just need to time it early. Even better, both these moves reset opponent next to you for more hijinks.
Problem now that i’m sure most of us are having is to cover distance properly against fireballers. V skill is great but all it does is just build up grey health which disappears after one hit. It really makes me hesitant to move forward with the potential to lose all that life. Nash for example can just follow up with a max distance lk flash kick and i get whacked a distance away with my health gone. Or EX flashkick when he sees me jump over the next one. Headbutt is the other option, but I don’t think it’s useful against slow fireballs that fall in an arc, and it’s super hard to time if the opponent mix up the speed of their fireballs. Also, both options suck against characters that can move behind you and attack immediately after tossing their fireball (like Sim and Fang)
Also, is it correct that level 1 v trigger has no offensive use now besides in a combo from st.HP or st.HK (hah. good luck connecting those!) since people can just jab you out of it? So do most of you guys just activate to level 2 now or just activate level 1 at a distance away to use it?
A lot of people think Gief is bad in this game. He has his problems…but definitely becomes a bully once he puts you in the corner. I’m rank 168 Super Gold with him and looking to play other Players as well. PSN/ID - Bum1six3/Jbum163. www.twitch.tv/Bum1six3 is my stream.
Eh??
If you are doing air-SPD just use tiger knee motion, 412369 + l.P
The problem with tiger knee is gief has 5 jump frames(most in the game) this makes it sometimes come out as spd if you do it fast. By starting at up forward that never happens.
I don’t honestly see SPD losing to regular throws as a really big problem. Also, I don’t see them ever increasing the startup of SPD because, in my mind, the whole reason they made it a 5f startup was to stop people churning (I didn’t see churning as a really big issue, but whatever, Capcom apparently did). So in general, if you are getting thrown out of your SPD it is maybe because you are SPD’ing from a disadvantage, if you are doing tick throw setups I can’t see how you would ever get thrown out of your SPD. One last thing: I don’t think Gief is bad at all, contrarily, I think he is pretty damn strong. However, he is a lot different from past iterations in that you can actually rush him down/go for block strings on him without getting a hug afterwards. I think once people start to make more adjustments, they will learn to love this new Gief, I certainly have.
Don’t forget being able to combo into CA. Thats pretty damn cool too.
For shits & giggles, i went & tried out Birdie…I think i won a lot of matches just by using jab & strong button…I didn’t even use him in training mode & yet i can compete w/ people…Its like i was hardly putting any effort, unlike gief it seems like an uphill battle to the very end no matter the skill level of the player. I have to use my brain & be totally on point w/ everything to win. Sadly im stuck with Gief to the end.
Gief needs a lariat buff, maybe more stamina/stun too or everyone else less 50. Dont understand how Ryu/Ken only has a 50point difference.
First off… What do you mean about activating at level 1 or level 2? How long you hold it? If you hit with a short (6 hit V trigger, is that what you mean by lvl 1?) you can still headbutt. Timing isn’t impossible or anything.
Secondly, you seem to be ignoring three additional options against projectiles:
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Charged st HP. Armor will absorb a hit, and will still usually trade even if they have time to get another fireball out.
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Lariat. It was nerfed but still has uses. Feel free to stand full screen and lariat fireballs to build meter.
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EX Run. Will absorb a projectile and unless you started real late or are too far away, you have a good chance of running through the fireball and tossing their ass.
Lastly - About landing st HK or st HP after lvl1 vtrigger - The timing can be a little awkward at first, but it is not a one frame link or anything like that, it just takes a little practice time. Go into training and do it over and over until its natural.
I dunno man. There is still so much to figure out. Especially with his VSkill game. This game has pretty fantastic balance, I’m sure we still have more tools that we don’t know about.
Vtrigger suction shenanigans as well. I think there is more to discover.
I get wrecked a lot in Silver. Maybe I just don’t know every match-up, but unless Gief has you in the corner where he can punish almost every escape attempt it’s a tough time out there.
It’s not saying making it a little better wouldn’t hurt, but I was saying that it still has situational uses as an anti-air. The problem with it now is the timing is fairly strict.
PS: What’s the time stamp he is talking about that?
Am I right in believing cr. HP is generally the best option for catching neutral jumpers and st. HK for when they’re trying to jump away?
Also, not taking these two buttons into account and strictly talking about air SPDs: When you have a read on your opponent and you know you can catch them with an air SPD, is it worth burning the meter on an EX one, what makes it better than just LP air SPD?
I really don’t know anything about the air SPDs.
Ex version starts up 1 frame slower, but does 20 more damage than lp version. Not sure on range.
There’s 3 ways you can activate v trigger.
- You activate it and not hold it (tap it). That gives you a tandem engine effect but according to new frame data, is unsafe on block. That means you can get punished after doing it. However, this leaves you with a full timer for your V trigger state.
- You hold it for a couple of seconds to reach level 2. This will suck people in like level 1, but it will follow up with hits which, even on block, puts you safe. That will reduce your timer by quite a bit though.
- Level 3 is when you hold it all the way until it ends. This will extend level 2 until it puts your opponent in juggle state on hit, which you can follow up with headbutt (or dash forward EX air spd), like you mentioned. Your entire timer is gone if you transition to this level.
So i was just asking if there is ever any reason to use level 1 offensively now outside of activating it at a distance.
Those anti-fireball moves you mentioned cant be used that effectively either. Nobody is going to let you get away with charged st.hp. You have to be really close to get this to hit, if not you’re just absorbing one hit and exposing yourself due to its huge recovery frames (23 recovery frames!). EX run as well. I think people past silver rank have trained themselves to react to it by now, especially EX which is pretty obvious since you glow gold and everything. Lariat is a joke. Yes, you can activate it in reaction to fireballs and yes, it will avoid it, but Capcom set the recovery so long, opponents can just walk up and sweep while you’re still trying to recover (31 recovery frames). I still maintain V skill is still the best way to nullify projectiles without getting punished, but its really hard to press on afterwards due to all the white health collected.
And lastly, i was talking about comboing st.HK>trigger or st.HP>trigger, not the other way around.
It depends on when you are using it. On the way down the EX SPD tends to be a better option because it keeps the momentum and lets you land without too much recovery. If you want to Tiger Knee it then non-EX can be a slightly better option since it immediately stops you in the air and drops you down instead of making you commit to your jump arc. Which in some situations can make it a little harder to punish.
As far as range and damage. They follow a similar trend to the ground SPDs.
i’ve already posted this before but it would be easier than asking to find the previous post
I see Leong thanks for explaining.
You can CA off of lvl1 i think?
st.LP is also a good anti air if it’s a “deep” jump in or a potential cross-up.
As for the air SPD question, aside from damage and range which were mentioned, EX air SPD also puts you closer to the opponent for easier meaty setups, much like its grounded counterpart.