Actually, I don’t know about counter hit. I know it doesn’t hit crouchers on regular hit…but, on counter hit you have 2 extra frames to possibly step forward a little? I didn’t get to test that…
I dont think you can unless whoever i tested it on didnt allow for that…but my point is there is no reason to not try and jump or back dash as he doesn’t reliably combo into damage from a non jump in to it not a big deal if u do get tagged by a poke. rather get s.lk, jabbed, mediums for small damage… than get spd. If you could land mp, into lariat combo would be pretty big difference…then if block it could lead to grab oki. Headbutt into crush is another thing i meant, as that’s standing hk misses crouches, and standing hp is pretty slow.
If I’m telling you about it, it is because I’ve done it a dozen times in matches. Again just because you haven’t figured out how to use it doesn’t mean I haven’t. It’s really damn easy too. Tiger Knee SPD has stupid range and catches most characters back dashes from a long distance away.
The purpose of his s.HP is to eat up attacks. For instance if R.Mika tries to drop kick you then you can charge the s.HP on reaction to it. It also beats several of Dhalsim’s limbs. Just as a couple of examples.
You aren’t going to typically crush counter with it outside of punish situations. Now his s.HK on the other hand is an amazing button for getting crush counters.
LOL! Are you serious!?
c.HP and s.LP blow up jump ins and if they are really intent on jumping you can make that read and get the air SPD. No one is jumping on a neutral gief unless they are really close to him.
Get out of here with this nonsense.
Only off SPD. Off every other hit he covers quick rise just fine. And again that’s because unlike SF4 you can actually get SPDs in the neutral game by absorbing buttons with the V-Skill.
But the thing you haven’t noticed is that everyone in this game has this issue.
Or alternatively you could actually learn how to play defense. It’s not like you are getting vortexed just yet in this game. Gief only has trouble when the opponent is directly in his face and if you let your opponent get there you screwed up.
Also I might add the minute you get super pressuring gief becomes insanely risky since he has so many ways into it.
You have to make reads with a grappler? Say it ain’t so!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nBCoDULyYo
Pokes don’t keep Gief out. The problem Gief has is against character with projectiles that can actually follow in their projectile such as Nash. Because in that situation Gief’s primary tools for getting around those projectiles are nullified. It also doesn’t help pinning down Nash is a royal pain in the ass.
Any character who is poke based has to always be worrying about getting their button absorbed, swatted, or hopped over. Gief has every last tool you need to beat a character sticking out buttons. The key is though you need to have a neutral game and actually understand how his buttons work.
No the point is you have zero clue what you are talking about. You are complaining about things that aren’t even problems with Gief. I’m not going to say Gief is top tier, but the worst character in the game? Hell no!
And no, no one has to be last. You can have a cluster of characters.
It’s a dumb question to ask when discussing if Gief is any good. It’s also stupid since the game isn’t even out yet and we don’t know everything that is going to be found with the characters.
I think gief is very good personally
Hold forward while using Lariat and you’ll start hitting people with your combos.
Also, V-Skill seems to be the key to winning in a lot of match ups. Gief can literally tank and spank almost every annoying move in the game by pressing two buttons, it’s amazing.
I think he is really solid right now. Just remember that: not being able to score a hard knockdown and oki the opponent to death like SF4 gief /= gief is bad. Also, although I haven’t really tested it, his V-Reversal seems quite good and I’ve heard you can still get EX Air SPD off it, which is pretty devastating
If people start jumping all day, sooner or later you’ll have to air SPD them. That’s what the move is for. Gief is a read based character. He’s always been.
If people keep backdashing…good. Gief wins when he gets people in the corner. I feel that the main point of Gief’s game is to back people into the corner.
If you manage to get next to someone on wakeup (after a crush counter sweep, for example), then the combo I mentioned before (cr.LP, st.LK, Lariat) is awesome.
People try to jump away or backdash, and get caught by the meaty cr.LP. That leads to a free, hit-confirmable knockdown with Lariat.
I’m not saying Gief is the best character in the game. He struggles against fireball characters (even though everyone in the general discussion thread claimed that fireball zoning would be useless).
But, he has some really interesting tools. He’s definitely not an immediately obvious character like Nash, Chun, or Necalli. He takes a LOT of getting used to and a LOT of patience.
So after playing a ton of Chun I decided to scrub it up with a few different chars. I started with Gief and proceeded to have my ass handed to me again and again… and then this happened (round 2):
It was one of those “This is so stupid that is HAS to work!” kind of things.
Again i did not say he has ZERO tools. i said his last tier, as in he’s weakest of the entire cast. big difference. You post a video of alex myers making tons of mistakes treating gief more liek sf4 and not bullying him is a bad example, he still lost to tokido later and would say that he was not a very optimal Charlie yet. It’s like the TheCoolKid69 spotlight video here on shoryuken and eventhubs of him dominated with gief…but when i faced him he was pretty free (no offence to him but he made scrubs think gief needed a nerf because of a highlight reel)…but i know what giefs strengths and weakness are…and in time more people will too. I know Gief is capable of damage and doing some good damage on hard reads…but that’s just it, he has to keep making reads to be a threat and a bad read can make him severely punished as well…his weakness outweigh his strengths. So his jab is a good anti air…big whoop 30 damage. and his C.HP is not as good as others and is still free to croseups (in terms of other godlike AA’s)…yes he has anti airs but they are not as reliable…not saying he has none, you take everything as literal don’t you? He can win games sure, but he’s the weakest out of the bunch but i’m sure you did fine owning scrubs in the beta therefor Gief clearly = the best in the game. Which is fine for you. But to me, he’s the least imposing character and i don’t break a sweat when i face him. I don’t even get worried during his oki. Not to say i wont lose to a Gief ever or never make mistakes…but once people figure his pattern and know his weakness he will he easier to deal with.
Some videos of Fourwude’s Zangief:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=2XY3nNUsiQA
https://youtube.com/watch?v=e-uxHilFeCo
https://youtube.com/watch?v=UOavWerhMQM
https://youtube.com/watch?v=3yCVFfxgHbQ
https://youtube.com/watch?v=wdBcMmh03j0
https://youtube.com/watch?v=TxATdYbM6gU
https://youtube.com/watch?v=W6QgzI_wNe0
Those fourwude videos are hands down one of the best Gief play I’ve seen so far.
@Genuser, nice super punish on Karin full screen OH special!
Does anyone know if it’s possible to air spd bison head stomps and devils reverse?
I can’t check the videos right now but will do it when I get home! I’ve played around 30 hours of only gief this beta, got rank 90ish on saturday and kept playing almost all sunday so I got a lot of nice experience against many characters.
As I said my main weakness is AAing properly, took me a lot of matches of eating counterhit jump ins to start conditioning enemies to not jump so much. I’ve founf st.jab to be his most reliable one, doing lariat or c.HP can be very risky if there is a bit of lag of the opponent has good jump in buttons. As Ralenzo said, I lost a lot of matches trying to lariat neutral jumps and eating 40% combos LOL, I guess this will take some time to react with st.jab, specially if u played gief in sf4 like myself.
I’d like to share my personal experience against some characters and maybe start talking about MU specific stuff as I don´t think things will change that much on the release date:
Ryu:
I feel this matchup is kinda even, at first I was trying too hard to go in but then I started to play lame and just charge V skill and let them get anxious. You can charge V skill pretty safely if you mix it up with headbutt and jump straight, you can even do lariat ( I used lariat a lot to avoid denjins). I found specially hard to deal with Ryu jump-ins if I tried to do anything that wasn’t jab. Once you have V-Trigger this MU gets way easier, you just need to be ready for dash-throw and jumps. I think gief outpokes ryu, the range of his moves isn’t that great and you should be able to control the ground with c.jab, st.mk and condition him to not press buttons, that’s the moment you hop-SPD him. St Hp isn’t that good against fireballs imo, be careful or you will get CC’d.
Nash:
Hands down the character I lost the most against, I think this MU is really hard. You can’t V skill his fireballs most of the time or he will dash and punish you, once he has V trigger or super you can’t V skill proyectiles anymore at all. I feel gief can’t jump at nash at all if he is on point, he needs to choose the right AA but he can cover every range. He can also play agressive with jaguar kicks, those are reactable with jab or c.Hp or even air spd but the problem is you are looking for other stuff at the same time so it’s really hard to react to every single one of his tools. His buttons are godlike, I feel like he has the best grounded buttons in the game.
Your offense is also not as effective as you might think due to V trigger, I don’t know if some OS will be found but atm you need to guess when he is going to use it, and then you need to guess if he will do the air or ground version to get away of the corner. I think it’s really dumb his teleport is hit invincible but oh well. Also the fact that Nash can be played in so manyw ays make it really hard to adapt against him while your gameplay it’s really satraightforward against him and he can just play a reactionary game.
Cammy:
I loved to play this MU, it reminded me to the cammy-gief sf4 matchup a lot. She has some good buttons and can mix up your AA game with cannon strike but most this MU is 100% patience, I took most matches against cammy to almost time over unless one of us screw up big time or got rekt with some mixups. You can V skill her V skill and punish with HP SPD or super. C.HP will beat her normal jump but be careful with cannon strikes, you can V skill the regular one but it’s very risky. Once she she is V triggered I feel it’s just be to block, I didn’t try to use V skill with V trigger active against it (since it’s multihit) but it might be a good option. Most of mmy matches where just playing in the ground, cammy has some really got buttons like st.mk that outrange you but you can V skill it and advance. Also never activate V trigger outside of a confirm if she has super.
Bison:
Lost a lot of matches against gimmicks or not knowing the MU, I got dash-thrown like a thousand times lol need to get used to devil reverse shenanigans and HK/EX scissors being safe in this game. Outside of that i feel this MU is good for Gief, at scissor range you can V skill and you will absorb both hits and punish with HP SPD. You will also absorb sweep and his fwd HP, his jump is floaty and easy to react to, and he is free to being pressured. Do ocassional c.jabs to beat his dash attempts and stuff his pokes. Don’t jump when he has super, guaranteed AA on every situation. Don’t do dumb shit or you will pay for it,dictator’s damage is ridiculous.
Birdie:
I play Birdie as well and I think this MU is hell. Banana > gief. The V skill can also beats gief V trigger for some reason, it’s not considered a proyectile. Zangief can’t jump, ever. Bull horn and c.mp are too good, specially against gief jump. He can zone you with chains, traps and condition you to not press buttons with bull revenger tricks. The matches I won with gief was because he made mistakes and I could get him to the corner.
Mika:
I think this is Zangief best matchup, I destroyed every Mika I played against. Mika is a 100% momentum based character, if you mess up she can blow you up in 2 mixups but if you play well that should not happen. Mika can’t use HK in this match, you can react with V skill for free and punish with HP SPD every single time. Her other normals are not that great and you should be able to ourpoke her, just be ready for the jumps.
That’s on top of my head, maybe I’ll share some more later on. Can’t wait to the 16th!
Agreed with you on all your observations.
And not once did I ever claim you said that. Learn to read. What you did claim however was that he is the weakest and the way you made that claim was to spout factual inaccuracies. Which I am addressing.
I posted a video of Snake Eyes playing one of the worst match ups Gief has (a match up I fully agree with it being bad) and winning against a solid player. Last I checked you said “only if they are bad”.
No you actually don’t and you’ve proven it time and time again.
They are reliable if you actually know how to play fundamentals. c.HP when used properly stuffs pretty much every jump in clean. The key is if you are close enough that your opponent can jump in your blind spot and you actually let him get off the ground, you screwed up.
That’s part of learning how to play an anti-air game is knowing where to stand so you can actually anti-air. And s.LP, c.HP, and air SPD will stop the vast majority of jump ins if you maintain proper spacing. And in the ranges where those buttons become unreliable you are close enough that your other buttons (f.HP, s.HK, Jabs, etc.) can keep the opponent from even leaving the ground. And Gief also has decent air to air buttons as well let’s not forget.
Frankly if your opponent is jumping like crazy on you, that’s your problem as a player not Gief’s.
No! Just no! Don’t even try to pull this bait and switch horseshit. This is dishonest.
You made the claim Gief was the weakest and then qualified that claim by saying things that were completely untrue. I took exactly what was put in front of me by you and nothing else. Stop making up nonsense about what I said and learn how to actually argue.
I don’t base my opinion on scrubs. That’s because I win local and regional tournaments and have actually placed at majors before
So don’t even try to pull this nonsense of saying “Oh just because you beat scrubs!” I base nothing on how well it destroys scrubs.
Am I crazy I
OR is the chun matchup actually manageable this time around?
What are your thoughts on Vega MU? I can’t jump at him and get beaten pretty hard by his fHp, atleast I can whiff punish it with cr. mp somewhat.
I think us 09’er Giefs got spoiled. My ground game has been on point for the most part (even hitting some swag shit with V-skill) but man I am SOOO ass at anti-airing. It’s a pain to train yourself to go from AA’ing as deep as possible for 6 years, to AA’ing early.
Other than that (which is a personal problem) Gief seems strong. I think once people figure out the gimmicks it’ll become a bit more uphill in a lot of matchups, but outside of Birdie, every MU I’ve played has felt manageable. I think he’s fairly well balanced.
The only thing I’d request at this point is a bit more range on lariat so that he can combo/punish more consistently.