Bro, this game has 5 month left till release, post your Zangief criticism in the Capcom-Unity forum ( I did), crying out loud here doesn’t change anything.
And please use the edit button.
Yeaaah I am really excited that my main Gief is in the game but as of now Birdie looks better in every way.
Edit: Also let me just say I dont think Gief looks terrible. Its just everything we know about Birdie i think he looks way better in comparison.
They are two different archtypes of characters. Gief is the more traditional grappler. Birdie is a brawler with great normals to zone with. He just so happens to have command grabs as well. One character’s playstyle centralizes on command grabs while the other doesn’t seem to be that way. I don’t think it’s fair to compare the two.
The funny thing about it is that Birdie is actually a character with very little combos. SFV Gief seems to have a more varied combo list than him even.
Which isn’t totally out of line since Birdie also had nearly no combos in the Alpha games either. He just kinda poked and command grabbed sometimes, but now he can poke and zone so he’s more dynamic.
A traditional grabber should be slow, but with massive/highest damage and health in game
I am not sure how many health gief has (but seems not really much more than a average character like ryu, I think about 1100 or 1050?)
However, he do ass damage at overall, he has less damage output comparing with ken, birdie, mika, necalli , and may be more characters who has not released yet
Fuck Capcom
I agree with you on one thing. Fuck Capcom when it comes to grapplers. Unfortunately, Capcom doesn’t make good grapplers that deviate away from their traditional idea of a grappler. Look at KoF’s Daimon, Potemkin from GG, Satsuki from Melty Blood, Kira from Arcana Heart, etc, etc. They are grapplers that aren’t slow, don’t have shit range, and have several ways to get in.
I’m still of the mindset that Gief is not yet finished or even close to being finished. As we’ve seen from different versions of the game, characters go through changes. Who is to say Gief is going to stay like this? I highly doubt it.
I have no idea why Capcom keep making his RBG slow and useless
The initial animation is toooooo obvious, raising his hand like a idiot,
just like telling opponents 'I am right now coming to grab you bastard!Dont jump away!'
Running grab REALLY needs speed to be a usable command, otherwise it is just a junk command
Why cant make his RBG like Hugo’s meat squasher’s speed?
You are a little bit over optimistic in my point of view
Capcom often make zangief a low/medium low tier character in history
In SF2, he is considered as the worst character in the game, especially when against guile it is like a joke matchup
In SF4, he is a medium/medium low tier character while have MOST terrible matchups character in the game
Capcom also INTENTIONALLY making some commands like a "trap command"
For example, punishable regular GH ON HIT, ridiculous RBG just for a trap command against his close 360K
I don’t have confidence Capcom will make Gief to be just a reasonable character in SFV
who are all these people who know how zangief should be?
From what you have seen, how much dmg you think it does HP version?
I believe you, but still there is the strange low dmg on RBG, and even supposing is LK version, also normal throw (back iirc) look strange low
My point is, even assuming he can be good and win, why ruin the gameplay archetype?
Ridicolous dmg and health to compensate lack of speed and need to get close
It worked
Now he seem more a char you can stand and bang with using anybody without particular fear, wich is kinda ridicolous imho
Gief as now seem a tank without the cannon, lol
It’s like a Sim without stretchy arms… even assuming is good/competitive why ruin the archetype he is supposed to represent?
So Gief has a “parry”, a whiff punish button(s) from 1/3 screen, hitconfirmable spd, 20% or more antiair, looks like some really solid neutral buttons, an armor absorb knd move, a hop attack, a move that modifies jump arc, punish combo into Spd.
I wonder if its reasonable to shoot for 3 ex spds per round?
Cr. lk, st. Lk xx exspd
Cr. mp xx exspd (max range?)
Fwd. fp, cr. mp xx ex spd
Is his “parry” functional is another question I have? Can it be used at the opponents max range neutral normal and get something off of it?
I wonder if his vacuum, has any kind of start up or is it instant? For example if Cammy whiffs a cr. mk in front of me, can i reaction vacuum her, and will she still be in recovery state, or hit stun state, or neutral state?
Can he vskill in the air, after trigger activation?
Not a gief player but i have questions.
Can he kara cancel any of his normals for extra Spd range like an A3 Gief(i don’t recall the specifics to those normals but if anyone with an A3 Gief background could provide further input on his A3 kara spds)?
What the limitations behind his v-skill usage here? Can he v-cancel from any of his normals, the cancel-able ones or the non ones?
Someone posted he could combo from cr. mp to ex. spd, is this a cancel or a link? If its a cancel, does the system allow him to v-cancel from this normal?
I think i kind of see how they want to make zangief work here, as an amalgamation of certain various traits from his previous appearances. Going with a different approach of slowly closing of your space, like an amoured vehicle.
To help this concept work become more fluid maybe they experiment more with his v-trigger state
- access to a kara spd i.e flex animation for instance GRAB. Though not like exact long ranges seen in previous games
- and kara cancel the running part of the running grab animation into CA.
its only been stated to cancel into ex spd.
edited my previous post
People are saying he’s suppose to be a “traditional” grappler. But his spd does not seem to be better than the other grapplers in damage, range or startup. I mean Combofiend was all about fundamentals and he didn’t really show anything advance or what we already don’t know… all his mixup were typical tic grabs… that mika, laura and birdie can ALSO do or do or better, with better tools and actually high damaging combos.
And Birdie apparently still has his standing short combo, so that alone is better since headbutt is a great tool to send opponents to the corner, lead to tic grabs, fram traps etc.
And if his spd can be combo, then it probably has to be literally kissing his opponent or he will be to far i reckon or only has to be on jump ins. His megaton punch has 1 armour but did someone say lows beat it outright? Where lows are pretty dominant footsie tool people like to use alot.
I don’t see how these are knee jerk reactions. When we’re looking at it in a objectively.
I’m sure if i told you Dudley would not be OP and be mid tier like everyone said during SSF4 all because he could “combo” off his overhead… In a game engine where there’s invincible back dashes, reversals, invincible everything and focus attacks and fadc into ultras… people were really ignoring everything they know about the game.
Wong, and i also feel like Ultradave and JChensor might of said the same thing too. So was Dudley OP? No. Just because pros and well known fgc players say someone feels good doesn’t mean it’s scripture.
Look at Gief and look at the others. This is within reason. Lets not rely on some wait and see for undiscovered tech, where he breaks the game and can combo spd into an spd here… and if anyone jumps at face value with knee jerk reactions the pros and top fgc players are notorious for this sort of thing…whether a character is “op” or “ass”
Almost every returning character is different. This is nothing new. Bison has no walk speed anymore and his special moves especially in V Trigger work very differently, Vega is a motion character and lost cosmic heel and some other attacks, Karin is basically a new character and her rekkas are completely different and locked only onto V Trigger, only thing similar about Birdie is headbutts and some normals, R.Mika is basically a new character, the list goes on.
People really need to just sit themselves down on a chair for a bit and part with the fact that these returning characters are made to be fresh for a new game. They don’t want you to play the exact same Gief from the last prequel. They’re more a combination of a bit of the old, mixed in with a lot of new. They want to give you a new gameplay experience with each character and the V Skill and V Triggers on top of that really give them a lot of new options for that. It’s a new game, you’ll get new stuff.
This character has armor (infinite armor in V Trigger), vacuum that eats whiffed pokes and specials, comboable EX/super grab and air SPD. If you think you’re going to be able to just sit and toe to toe vs a SnakeEyez or Cantona level Zangief months or a year after the game is out, good luck with that. You won’t want to be near this Gief just like all the other Giefs.
Ultra David already mentioned that his s.MP and s.MK both stuff low attacks really well. A potentially armored punch (when charged) that stuffs all lows would be a bit much so I’m not sure if that’s possible. This game is designed around having a normal for every situation. If your character is throwing out a normal, your character most likely has normal to stuff it. There aren’t any default for many situations normals like Adon s.HK anymore. You will have to run through your normal set regularly in each matchup now.
Gief seems like he’ll be nearly the hardest character to land a clean hit on when optimized. Especially once his V Trigger is figured out. As long as he’s standing on his feet with V Trigger the options to clean hit him will become very limited with his infinite armor on his V Skill. If he’s closing in on you with that stuff active you will have to choose what you attack with extremely carefully. A lot of medium and heavy normals will be extremely risky to throw at him. Whiff a bad poke or special and get sucked in. Sit there too long and get sucked and grabbed. Jump too late and get smacked by the cyclone after getting sucked in.
Birdie can put up more of a wall but he’s much easier to actually poke at and much more limited defensively than Gief once people close on him. Gief while on his feet has much better defensive options for absorbing/ignoring footsies.
@twocoins He has a tool to crush lows. Not sure how good it is. I dont think anyone really cares whether he is good or bad right now. People are just curious how he is diiferent and how he plays differently, whats new, whats changed, does he have previously unexplored options.
Some people on here remind me of those people on the Yun forums before usf4 Yun. Nothing but doom and gloom.
a non-combo based, simple/easy to play character always being mostly explored in very early stage (look at gief at SFIV)
While a complex and combo based character like akuma/ibuki are still not being 100% explored few years after game released.
The ironic thing is that these are the changes i was kinda hoping for, a more grappler Gief
I’m not against change of playstyle/moveset, i actually find it cool and the reason i like get SF2ers… just i don’t see a reason to break the archetype, THIS Gief imho is very compatible (and need) with have classic Gief-style power.
I can absolutely be wrong, but for how i see it this Gief with high power/health will be very strong but not necessary broken character, seem to me (again, maybe wrong) they want play it safe to avoid everyone (specially the noob audience they are targetting) whine about him being overpowered