I wonder, for every time you successfully counter, how many times will you have been CCd? Slaynman said the move is completely useless so I’ll believe that until proven otherwise.
Uhuh a situational buff -_-
I still believe it’s a move that Itazan will whip out on stream every once in a while and then the stream monsters will say it’s useful and it will trigger the thread.
Pretty much accepted this character thread isn’t possible to please
Here we go again with the mental masturbation of Tundra. And everyone appears to be beating off to it. Myself included 
Would one ever be mathematically justified to use Tundra? The beta seems to suggest “no” However, that’s not to say, some folks don’t like to put their money in bad, or invest in unprofitable stocks. Because clearly, some do.
In its current form, Tundra needs more work. Zangief should be ashamed of himself for releasing an inferior product and rushing it onto the market.
Filling the footsie void of the SF4 EX Greenhand has been a huge challenge for V. If they buff the V-Skill, by reducing its after load by 2 or more frames, they could break the game, and turn Big Z into a monster. That would be the REAL TUNDRA! But if they do nothing, they acknowledge the problems he faces against those fast medium pokes - thereby exposing Z’s real weaknesses in neutral.
I’m all for the Tundra position, if its equity is not too much negative. But from the looks of it, it would need to do near 50% damage to break even. Was gonna say 75% damage. Because that’s how much health I expect to lose for the one time I hit the jackpot and break even.
Now if tantric Tundra gets buffed, then all bets are off.
The hopes are that the whole WTF reaction to Gief’s tundra will have moved them to buff it in the end April patch
And if does’nt happen, i can see them eventually buff it in the next true big patch, think it as something that you’re free to NOT use, that may get better in future
On the other hand, RBG imho sucks and they did’nt done anything about it, not in first patch, not in end april patch
I would love to see ANY footage of RBG being used in high level play in SF4 on purpose. +50 if it actually works lol.
Also, when I played around with the counter in the beta, my only impression of it was “this is really gonna fuck up my inputs.” And I think that’s something people are underestimating.
Preparing for unannounced nerfs because Itabashi is in winners finals in France. Remember there’s only 1 top Gief in the world so naturally that means the character is top tier.
People in the main forum think he’s going to be top 5 in season 2.1. I wonder who he’s going to displace: Ibuki, Guile, Balrog, Urien, Necalli or Laura. And Gief doesn’t have limited defensive options because he can SPD after he backdashes.
Sigh. I give up.
It really is incredible what these non-Gief players say and think. They couldn’t be more clueless. Morons on Eventhubs actually say Sim-Gief is even, you can’t make this kind of stupidity up. They just see that he’s getting 3 new moves so automatically he’s gonna be broken now without doing any research or fact checking.
On another note Haitani really showed how overrated flex is. Every time Itazan flexed Haitani blew it up. Then you see American “top” Giefs get away with flex gimmicks every time smh. Also I think there were 2 or 3 rbg attempts and all were avoided and got blown up lol. As I was watching the finals I really tried to see if there would be any opportunities to try for the counter if he had it now and I saw none whatsoever.
He got like two RBG attempts confirmed I want to say he attempted two more he did get blown up hard with one of them. As for the match Haitani just knew how to react and punish Itazan when he went for SPD and meaty attacks he just blew them all up. @scratchback this is why I don’t see Stupendous as a top tier Gief he gets away with that way too often in the states and doesn’t get blown up for it more often than not. I rate him in the second tier and that is a big drop off.
I hate the SPD should be CC on whiff argument if you suck at avoiding his best option that’s on you. Because he already has to take a shit ton of damage just to get in and has no get off me move currently.
You were right some time ago when you said it’s pointless to try and convince non-Gief players that he isn’t top 10. It’s just barking at the moon. They think he is top 5 because Daigo and Nemo said he might be, before the S2 patch was even in effect. When you tell them that Itazan thinks he’s “so-so” or that even Snake Eyez thinks Akuma is more viable for tournaments they just ignore it. Never mind that he has the three worst matchups in the entire game.
Itazan is carrying Gief at this stage, there’s no one who’s even close to him. He’s not just the best Gief player, he is one of the best SFV players period. Even so, when he’s up against someone who knows Gief’s weaknesses he gets blown up. First Momochi, now Haitani. And Ken and Necalli aren’t even among Gief’s worst matchups. If Gief is so great, why aren’t top players flocking to him?
Both you guys are dead on. Firstly, Stu is no doubt a good player but he’s not a top Gief imo, there’s only one. Stu goes for rbg’s all the time and lands them. He lands flex into v-trigger cancel all the time. He gets away with bs against free US players. He might be the best US Gief and that’s pretty sad tbh and that’s how hard it is to win with this character. Snake is basically an Akuma player now that dabbles with Gief. Never thought I’d ever see that happen.
I agree that Itazan is one of the best SF5 players overall. Imo he’s top 5 in the world. What he does with this character is beyond comprehension but non Giefs have no idea. They just think he’s using top tier lol. Yes, when the other person knows the Gief mu it gets ugly quick. I will say that I think both Ken and Necalli beat him, I know these 2 really give me trouble. I still think at the highest level he loses almost every mu and doesn’t win any outright.
I agree that both Ken and Necalli beat him. It’s so disheartening that Itazan got blown up by them when the people controlling them are not more skilled than him, they simply have better tools at their disposal. I also agree that he loses most matchups, though I think he has one solid 6-4 matchup in his favor: Dictator. You can shut his whole offence down with V-skill/SPD punish and Lariat headstomp and jump ins. Due to his floaty jump, terrible walkspeed and lack of an overhead he can’t harass you on wakeup the way other characters can. From my personal experience I think Gief might beat Juri as well. Other than those two, I don’t think he has any matches in his favor.
Top 5 character. Yeah.
Been a while since I posted.
Air headbutt is a nice buff because you get an extra 20 damage on your full jump in punish AFTER an opponent is stunned. So, VT combo, ex air spd, stun, dash up, air headbutt, headbutt, st.lk xx lariat. I’m happy with this buff. I’m not sure if it will be used as intended very often given the small hitbox. When I neutral jump I’m buffering air spd and would rather land that for the sweep +2 oki (ex or hp only).
Counter is garbage and will result in lots of pain. My biggest fear is walking forward and doing cr.jab toward the corner and getting counter coming out by mistake. Make it reversal dp + kick input.
Crouch throw is cool looking, but would rather have seen ST Gief’s crouch GRAB! That was a sweet move. (ultimately a nerf since it removes corner throw loop).
I threw it out there on my local discord channel that I doubt Gief will win a major event. Eventually your luck runs out and the 50/50 or 33/33/33 guesses stop going in your favor. Besides this, there is only one legitimate contender who is playing Gief at that level and he’s getting blown up when facing the absolute best of the best. Itazan could win, but I wouldn’t bet on it. Who else does that leave? Stu and some of the diamond stream warriors? I would love nothing more to see Gief win! I hope it happens! I wouldn’t bet on it!
HEADS UP. cr.jab, cr.mp, st.lk xx lariat is a really neat frame trap. It stops jumpers and after each normal you can go for a tick spd or sniff out a jump for air spd. Itazan landed it multiple times today.
Is there a picture of the hitbox and hurtbox somewhere? I used the headbutt as an air to air a lot and I wonder if it’s still viable for that.
That’s exactly what I was afraid of. I can see it coming out a lot with negative edge. The worst thing about a useless move is a useless move coming out by accident. Maybe Stu or Snake Eyez could appeal to Capcom to implement your suggestion.
Wha…? Zangief is top 5 now, haven’t you heard?
I noticed that too, looked really effective. He also used low strong to beat some pokes clean. It’s a bit of an underused move.
I still think you’ll see Itazan use counter to close a round every once in a while and the stream monsters will go nuts. He’s the exact type of player that’ll find a use for it when everyone else forgets it exists.
I definitely don’t believe Gief is top 5. Some people put that out there but I know Giefs competitive history in different games and his polarizing toolset usually keeps him out of top tier in most games. Last game he was top tier in was A3 and that’s because he was a custom combo demon and had really strong pokes. The command grabs were just a nice touch.
Juri vs Gief I think would be even at worst for her. Maybe even going in her favor since once she charges level 2 V skill you lose the ability to use half your toolset. No whiffing s.hp, no whiffing lariat, you’re forced to just approach with your basic pokes which aren’t as threatning and gives her room to store. She has really good AAs vs him as well
Here is the link to Toolassisted’s site for hitboxes and other cool stuff like that. Link is specifically for air headbutt.
https://toolassisted.github.io/DIFF/#ZGF_005/MOVE/21/89HP
Starts up in 8, active for 5. Hitbox is well ahead of hurtbox (although I suspect it could still trade/lose to something like Ryu j.mk which hits a bit lower).
120 damage, 400 stun. 144 damage, 480 stun on counter hit. 30 white life chip damage (other jumping heavies do 25).
This is a great addition to Gief’s moveset. It doesn’t seem game changing, but it is surely a buff to be given something that will be used. In the beta I played 15 matches and used it three times, all three of those times were after an opponent got stunned already and I used the air headbutt, headbutt, st.lk xx lariat combo. There will be other uses for it (punish whiffed Akuma ex dp), but I bet we will mostly be using it after an opponent is already stunned. And that’s fine, it’s free additional damage.
Finally Zangief gets some classic wrestling moves. His dragon screw is wonderful.
And it was about time he got a low throw. It was ridiculous that his disciple had actually more normal throws than him…
That would be my personal dream. A :3k: normal throw counter that lets Zangief block his opponent’s attempt, pat him/her like he did with Abel in the cinematic story mode, and then perform a wrestling throw appropriate to the situation (e.g. a shoulder throw countered with a sleeper suplex) would be fantastic.
Still, I love Tundra.
Why do you love tundra, and how successful were you using it in the beta? For a move that starts up in 4 frames, has about 20 frames of crush counterable recovery frames, and can only work on a handful of characters (and even more limited, a handful of their moveset), it sure doesn’t seem risk reward skewed in Gief’s favor. Why wouldn’t you just flex and ex spd if you have a poke read? Same damage at 220 plus +2 oki situation vs no oki from counter.
You’re fighting Ken. Walking back and forth and you have the read on him, he’s about to strike. You “know” he’s going for st.hk and go for the TUNDRA STORM. Ken picks st.hp instead, crush counter combo tatsu you to the corner. You just ate a huge combo plus you’re in a corner reset situation all because you gambled on the counter instead of flexing it and putting HIM in the mixup. Just dumb. Are you going to put your tournament life at risk for a move that you have to guess with the timing (4 frame start up plus input lag if you want to go there), then guess they are going to use one of the horizontal kicks? This move was added for funzies and there will be videos of some random Gief landing four in a row on youtube that gets a hundred upvotes, but that’s it.