As you say that’s pretty idiotic. Lariat is nowhere near as godlike as it was in sf4. Gief definitely needs it to at least keep projectile happy people honest. If anything I don’t understand why they like to boost those characters in sf5 when I thought they were moving away from that. Again Ryu and Guile and prob Akuma seem top tier while I can’t remember the last time a grappler was.
Going to enjoy the new lariat while it lasts. Lol. Really I think only scrubs complain about that. It still can get stuffed via the late reaction and doing it too early and whiffing it equivalent to a massive punish. Really liking the cr.lk>cr.lp>lariat. They have to block low whereas cr.lp>st.lk>lariat was too easy to block.
Personally I wouldn’t mind them nerfing lariat back to S1 and giving us back jab +5 on hit and also either
-faster walk speed, lowered amount of frames on dash/more distance covered.
or
-more plus frames on block and hit and less push back on block and hit on normals/increase range of mp and hp spd.
So either make it easier to maneuver our way in on the ground, or make us have more sticking power for when we do get in.
I’m just scratching my head wondering what they were going for with Gief’s changes. They did absolutely nothing to address his weaknesses; he’s still free on wake up and getting in is now even harder. The slower grey life regeneration really hurts him in this regard, and people are constantly sweeping me out of charged st. fierce after the patch. The hurtbox appearing 3 frames earlier makes it very vulnerable to low attacks.
Who cares about a frame buff here and there for better 50/50’s? I never had a problem dealing damage once I got in, it’s getting in that’s the problem, and keeping your opponent from swarming you after you get knocked down. The lariat buff is nice, but next to useless in his hardest matchup (Nash). The Dhalsim and Urien matchups actually got worse because of their buffs. People who think Gief is mid-tier now are living in a dreamland. He’s worse off than in season 1.
Lariat properties are ok, but maybe they would touch his damage/stun back to S1, so combos aren’t so important for Gief and also people are incentivized to AA with cHP more
he is super slow tho, and can stand to get his walk/dash speed increased a little and still be the slowest in the game. or yeah, his dash distance
it is annoying to walk back and forth from one corner to the other each round cause you cannot catch up people in anyway
Hi guys, long term lurker here. Thought i’ll contribute to the Gief tech.
Not sure if this has been posted but after a CC it’s all most always optimal to go for headbutt, lk xx lariat into mixup for that stun damage.
Here’s some clips of a meaty setup after lariat combo. Take a slight step forward then heavy kick, which will catch back jump/ back dash (Doing EX air SPD will Lead to stun on 1000 stun characters).
in the Cammy setup you can replace that last headbutt with Lariat for the same Stun and 20 damage more
basically wherever you did the sHK CH -> headbutt you can replace that last headbutt by a Lariat for the same stun and more damage, sacrificing positioning of course cause Lariat has more recovery
ah bugger! even on a cc? I had a feeling something was up…
btw, was st lp, st lk xx lariat a thing in season 1?
I don’t remember it being so or maybe because cr lp, st lk xx lariat was the bnb it didn’t matter. anyway been using this the last couple of days after finding it more reliable on jump ins than the new bnb or cr mp, st lk xx lariat.
I never saw st.lp, st.lk xx lariat in Season 1 and I have a hard time seeing it play out in season two either. cr.lk, cr.jab xx lariat is going to be the go to for lariat combos. cr. jab, cr.jab xx lariat as well once people get a good sense of the timing and spacing. Right now the important thing for Gief players to figure out is the best thing to do after a lariat KD.
Very early match up chart season 2 for me. Just a discussion.
Advantage
6-4
• Alex… he got nerfed you got buffed
• R. Mika…ditto
• Bison…you always had the advantage. bison wants to be close and you win at that distance.
• Balrog…Parry really hurts his options, you win at sweep distance as well.
even
5-5
• Ken…he got nerfed you got buffed.
• Ibuki…always even
• Ryu…see ken
• F.A.N.G…see ryu
• Akuma…lariat kills his fireball game, you can throw teleport, on the flip side if he knocks you down you are dead in two combos.
• Cammy…always even.
• Rashid…lariat hurts his fireball zoning. his buffs make him more dangerous inside.
• Necalli…you got buffed he stayed mostly the same, it was close to even before and now it is completely fair.
• Nash…nerfed to the ground i may change this to giefs favor soon. he can not run away like before.
loss
4-6
• Chun-Li…she got nerfed but not it a way that helps us. she still wins the neutral, you are just more dangerous up close.
• Karin…she has better buttons but you are now scary with st lk lariat and the block advantage up close on normals.
• Vega…claw still an issue to get around.
big loss
3-7
• Urien…this character beats you from all fronts. he might as well have a command grab because you cant tech his for fear of agis mixups.
• Dhalsim…this was already hard and he got buffed.
• Guile…fuck him.
I know that on paper Alex should lose, but I always get rocked by Alexes. the flash chop and grab afterwards is too much for me. I also don’t play this too much but it is honestly embarrassing for me
I think we win Karin and Vega. it was nearly equal in S1 anyway. worst case it’s 5-5
Urien…I think we don’t know how to play him yet. he prolly is 6-4 at worst once we figure it out
we eat Akuma alive. we prolly hold a small advantage against Ryu/Ken. 5.5-4.5, particularly with the changes to the DPs
Rashid is a difficult fight for me. I think his fireballs are way less dangerous now, but now we have to respect his V-Trigger cause we cannot ignore it via activating ours
we prolly lose to Balrog. 5.5-4.5 or 6-4. he is ridic dangerous even from a good distance, to the point that some of our fav pokes are punishable. you gotta play him differently, and once he has super bar, you can be punished for nearly everything. I don’t think Iron Muscle is that good against him. yest I saw a Balrog punish parries against Itazan. it is really dangerous cause if you use it as turn-taker, his pressure will punish whatever you throw in the middle, and waiting until the Flex Punch is also ill advised, and of course you are talking about eating two balrog punches with no health recovery so…
The thing with individual mu charts is that they never take into account the quality of opponents you’re playing. If you’re playing scrubs or mediocre players all the time then you’re gonna say Gief wins more mu’s or has more mu’s that are 5-5 simply because the other players aren’t good or just don’t know how to play against Gief. I think really good Giefs or the highest level Giefs will all say that he still loses most mu’s but this is just my opinion.
At the highest level I think Cammy beats Gief. I still think Alex beats him as well as Dictator. Nash got worse but he still wins too imo, I remember Snake saying that as well in his stream. I think I also remember Stupendous saying that Cammy beats Gief too. Sim is 10-0 if the player knows what he’s doing.