You should have gone into level 2 vt off of those c.lk confirms, there’s no reason to leave damage on the table when you’re using up the same amount of resources. It would have led into stronger meaty normals, more damage and a loop back into a similar situation on a successful confirm twice. If you guessed wrong on that sequence after the first suction, you just gave up a lot of damage and advantage for no real benefit. Hit confirms into raw level 1 vt are weak, and therefore not scary to any decent opponent.
Also, you should have been looking for a link into super at some point. As Zangief players, we need to be aware of when super is available. Landing 370 damage minimum off of a jab confirm into level 1 vt is very strong and being able to confirm off of any normal that links into a st.lk is strong even without vt.
Which meaty setup is everyone using after lvl 2 v-trigger by now?
I am still undecided between:
1.
Normal- and back recovery: walk a few frames forward j.hp (6 active frames), because it can hit meaty on both recoveries and it has a good hitbox. Also you can choose not to walk forward and block/empty jump low in time.
Normal recovery: f.dash, cr.lk, st.mp (meaty on the 2nd hit and will combo into another st.mp xx v-trigger on counter hit)
Back recovery: f.dash, cr.lk, f.hp (will combo into st.mk xx v-trigger on counter hit)
With #1 I have trouble will timing the j.hp properly, while I find it hard to see which recovery option people use during #2. What do you think?
Normal Recovery: Dash forward, c.lp, c.mp: It’s meaty and gives an extra + 1 frame advantage on hit or block; allows an easy confirm into c.lp *2 or a 1 frame link into st.mp
Back Recovery: Dash forward, c.lp, Headbutt: It’s meaty and gives an extra +1 frame advantage on hit or block; allows easy confirm into c.lp, or enough time to walk up slightly and link into st.mp.
Don’t use c.lk as a whiff before you meaty, it has one frame extra recovery vs c.lp. Also, you don’t want to use meaty attacks that won’t combo without a counter-hit; you need a method of reliably hit-confirming into the next combo.
I was looking at jump-ins before, but I think it works best when you implement empty-jump lows as an additional option. The likelihood of hitting with the jump-in attack is pretty low, since it’s telegraphed long before the opponent wakes up. And I prefer the consistency and greater pay-off of landing one of the grounded meaty hits, personally. It could be an option for players looking to implement a high/low mix-up during vt.
Against recovery timing, you just have to guess. If you take note of the types of recovery options the opponent has preferred during the round then it does tend to put the guess in your favour, but it’s just the nature of sfv. You can react to no recovery, though.
I just went to Training mode to try some ca mixups and I had this weird issue with specific timings. My plan was to buffer ca during cr.lk and then use it as a tick throw. I didn’t set up random block or anything, so cr.lk would put the dummy into hitstun every time. As far as I know the ca should have always connected, but it didn’t. Sometimes Zangief missed the ca just like he would with an opponent being in blockstun. Does anyone got an answer?
Are you linking into CA? If you are, then it may be linking too late; if you execute CA on the opponent’s last frame of hit-stun it will whiff due to the 1f start-up. Otherwise, it’s a distance issue and you’re too far for the CA to connect.
If you want a more reliable alternative you can try cr.lp, st.lk cancelled into CA, where you buffer the first SPD motion within the cr.lp. St.lk cancelled into CA will combo from any distance, due to the st.lk moving Zangief into range.
There’s a bug where it will whiff on the last frame of an opponent’s hitstun recovery, so you’ll see a lot of Zangief CA combos whiff if the CA is linked too late.
You guess? There’s no one-stop solution for Mika, she’s going for either a meaty or a grab; just know that she doesn’t do a lot of damage with her momentum-focused command grabs, her low confirms are weak and her normal throw vs standing doesn’t allow her to follow-up. So, stand blocking vs her mix-ups is a decent choice but it’s the usual guess vs grab or hit.
I always pondered how the CA can be both a throw and a hit.
They could implement a state check on both frames for block stun and air-born, to allow Big Z to proceed to CA whiff animation.
Or alternatively, the theory that I put forward regarding the 2 active frames of the CA
Active Frame 1 - Throw Type - checks for grab state
Active Frame 2 - Hit Type - Checks for hit stun
It would explain why you can’t combo into +1 on hit. Maybe we could devise ways to test it.
I really don’t see the point in using EX SPD if you read a throw, as a well timed jump cancel HP SPD should do the same job, if the throw setup is meaty. Either way, if your wrong, you get canned and don’t waste EX!
This is probably one of the few times, you could possibly use HK sibberian express. Jump Cancel Express baby! Your Thoughts @view619
EX SPD should be used as a reversal; it’s a hard counter to normal throws that can be blown up if baited correctly, and isn’t something you use every time you think the opponent is going to grab. If you’re guessing against a grab in general, the standard defensive options (jump, tech, back-dash) should be the first choices you consider.
HP SPD isn’t throw invincible and will lose to all meaty attacks or tick throws with frame advantage behind them, so it’s not a good defensive option. Like any reversal, using EX SPD is considering the risk of having the move baited vs the reward of completely shifting the momentum in your favor; Zangief has no other way to outright punish normal grabs while on defense.
Regarding Siberian Express, outside of using EX against frame-traps it’s not a good defensive option. In fact, the only viable uses I’ve found for the normal versions are:
Cancelling into LK version after a close range c.lp, st.lk xx lariat confirm attempt as it allows Zangief to start the move directly beside the opponent and works vs hit or block.
Baiting dp reversals, then punishing with st.hp into MK version from close range or st.hp into LK version from further ranges.
Baiting ex dp reversals, then punishing with full charge st.hp into HK Version.
You cancel pre jump frames into an hp.spd or hk.rbg. Pre jump frames are grab invincible and therefore make hp.spd or hk.rbg invincible as well. It fullfills the same purpose as ex.spd when anticipating an opponent’s grab on wakeup.
I think the only purpose of ex.spd is a great wakeup game after tickthrows, because of the range.
If that’s the question, I would say HP SPD due to it being able to punish both whiffed normal and command grabs; HK Siberian Express is still going through start-up after a normal grab whiff has recovered. Best to find a response that covers as many options as possible, imo.
Still, pre-jump cancelling SPD vs grabs is a pretty interesting technique. I’ll definitely try making use of it.