It’s easier to complain about a character than to figure out what its strengths are and how to maximize them. People are still complaining about what he doesn’t have in comparison to previous versions instead of focusing on what he has in SFV.
he sucks but not as bad as people say. he doesnt lose every matchup. I still dont see how he loses to ryu. One of the biggest things him dealing with fireballs, he has no trouble dealing with normal fireballs. He has trouble dealing with people that can follow their fireballs ie chun, nash and people that can keep him out with buttons ie Sim.
Ryu now has more recovery on fireball, cr mk to fireball is punishable, and vtrigger takes it away completely.
Take a look at this match between alex valle and snakeeyes and see what to do, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovSBUhEPHIc
yes it takes extreme patience but once he corners ryu he has to take massive risks to get out. and yes uppercut is a massive risk. he hits it he gets 100 damage he misses he loses 300-500
I’d love to know the date of that set with Valle. I would guess it was early on soon after release when mu knowledge was very limited and Snake was winning everything cause nobody had a clue. Did you guys forget what happened at Red Bull Kumite with Bonchan. I guess we all have different definitions of high level. When I think Ryu I think of Bonchan, Tokido, Daigo, etc. I don’t care about online Ryus with tons of points. Heck, even I’ve beaten those guys before.
Well, yes… but… At the time of this replay Valle clearly didn’t knew the matchup. He was playing purely on fundamentals, and treating Snake Eyez like SFIV Gief.
Take a look about the match of Snake Eyez against Bonchan on Red Bull Kumite 2016 to see what’s Gief vs Ryu is REALLY like now. While I agree that Snake maybe was a little impatient, it was painful to watch.
Agreed. When someone that good knows the mu Gief has no chance. Not only that but Ryu is just a way better character now along with everyone else. Gief is completely outgunned by everyone in the cast, even by both the other grapplers by a mile.
I had the same feeling as you: Ryu is a fair matchup for gief, as gief can headbutt & vskill & vt his fireball.
However, if you think in depth, VT can only be used in the mid-late game, how about before, when we has no VT bar?
Both headbutt/VS are not the real solution of fireball spammer, you gain nothing but just only positioning for headbutting a fireball, you take white life risk for VS fireball.
I fought against a Ryu player who ONLY threw out lp hadouken & anti-air with shoryuken/S.HK
I can sure Gief can do nothing but waiting to die.
In SFIV, you can do nothing against Sim’s fireball but only blocking.
(You cannot GH his fireball as you are always pushed by his limbs too far away, and sure, you can never jump)
His teleport was much harder to punish in SFIV.
His instant JHP overhead was EXTREMELY annoying and disturbing.
In SFV, it is a big enhancement you can forward dash his fireball, and then punish with S.HK (&VT)
His teleport is much weaker, you can easily punish his wake up teleport by EXRBG/forward dash SPD.
Sim heavily relies on c.mp as anti-air, but Gief’s flying body press can easily trade with his c.mp
Health trading is always good for Gief’s side.
Sim has no longer any instant overhead at far range now.
To be honest, Snake’s gameplay was terrible at that day.
I cant believe my eye when I saw snake throw out a RBG at far range on match beginning.
Which is same as suicide, throwing his game.
I started on sf2 so I am used to this and ryu’s fireball is the worst it has ever been. 13 frame startup and 32 frame recovery -7 on block. Plus the pushback on block is the worst it has ever been. If you neutral jump he can’t throw another one for 55 frames. You can jump it on reaction. Also you say all you gain is position but that is all you want. Yes you only get vtrigger mid to late match but once you do ryu loses his best tool.
This is the best example of how to handle this match https://youtu.be/am0jrVV_RFc
Ryu’s LP Hadouken is the hardest problem for Zangief, as there really is no consistently great answer. All your answers lose equity against Ryu’s LP Hadouken, than compared to his MP and HP Hadouken. Not including the games horrible input lag, you lose 3 frames off a reaction counter to it.
Your answers at 60% screen distance, become significantly weaker, if not impossible.
Reaction jump LP or MK
Lariat
Charged Stand HP
You have to be closer at 50% screen for the LP hadouken!
Why would Ryu want to use any other strength of Hadouken, other than LP? The LP Hadouken should be normalized in recovery, or come with a HUGE start-up penalty, slower startup. So Big Z can counter hit his ass with Stand MK, Headbutt, Stand HP, Stand HK.
The way it is, especially against the Atomic Ace, it’s not mind games, it’s brain dead. LP hadouken for the win!
Why not just zone Zangief anyway. It’s not like he’s an effective threat at range. If you go in, you run the risk of losing the advantage when Zangief whips out V-Skill, or your strings gets intercepted by EX SE or CA.
I’m gonna float this idea out there, but I’m going to go with Block the slow fireball and V-Skill the follow up. Intercept the gap between, that way, you don’t carry the white life of the projectile, and say good bye to that vitality when you guess wrong.
His lp is 32 frames recovery. His mp is 34. Not that different
I guess I have never seen this strategy beat a high level Gief. Can you link a video of one of the Asian players loosing to this?
I also fail to see how Gief is a decent match-up against Ryu. The white damage you take from fireballs just trying to get close is ridiculous, and a careless jab can turn those into real damage. And with the i-frames on srk, you still have to respect his wake-up and jump-ins. Add in the fact that he can convert any combo into a super and Gief has his work cut out for him. My best match-up at the moment is against claw. His air attacks are easily countered, Gief can out jab him sometimes, and all his other moves can be spd afterwards.
Ryu also takes a major risk with uppercut on wake up. He guesses right he gets 100 damage, guesses wrong 300-600. That is really not in his favor.
And don’t party everything, there are distances you an jump and distances you block. The chip damage is negligible and the push back is low. It seems fair to me.
Unfortunately I tend to jump in more since you can only absorb so much (well that and my patients runs out), doesn’t help that his dash in is ridiculous and he can DP you right after if you think you read the FB right to jump over it. I’ve gone to knees since it leaves just short enough from being hit on certain distances I know j.mk is preferable but he can still counter you pretty good.