My bad man, I ain’t need to be disrespectful like that, even tho I disagree.
Jab is great, but it doesn’t lead to anything but a guess unless you’re right on top of them. Same for cr.MP. Same for all of his buttons. +3 on block is cool but headbutt is 12 frames, st.RH is 11 frames and whiffs crouching, st.HP is 16 frames and loses free to sweep. All you can do is jab again or commit to SPD, and if they guess right, you lose a ton of life because they do more damage than you and you have to hold mixups even worse than yours because you have no defense.
His mediums don’t lead to anything except on counterhit and when you have VT. Which is okay, but this game is heavily offense based right now. He doesn’t have the health or damage to nickel and dime people with those pokes. They’re good buttons, but they don’t get anything started, they just do a bit of damage and then it’s back to the neutral. There’s nothing to fear. Moreso, how useful are those buttons when you’re fighting a character with a projectile?
And Gemini, there’s no way Gief’s footsie game is better than Dhalsim, Ryu and Bison.
I forget dhalism lol. My bad.
Well, but I don’t think Ryu’s footsie is very good comparing with gief
Ryu’s seems don’t has any threatening footsies against gief but only fireball game.
Most of Ryu’s footsies are short in range?
For Bison, the most threaten footsies is his SHP/Closed range SHK/Throw guessing game,
but I think this is still fightable, Gief’s vskill always stop opponent spamming heavy attacks otherwise they get SPDed.
Bison lost his roundhouse in SFIV which was most annoying in mid range.
Thank you chief don’t worry about it. I was mostly talking to someone else.
First, can I just reiterate that I think he is kinda bad up close? My original point was only that there is a reason to get closer than lp spd range because of the oki after mp/hp spd and I threw out a guess of why Capcom made him bad close. The normals discussion started because specific normals were mentioned and I was just giving some thoughts on them. I know Gief is hard to use and that if you guess wrong with st.hp you can get swept and of that. It happens to me all the time ha
I just look at http://eish.deviantart.com/art/Zangief-596290827 and apparently I was wrong about st.mk hurtbox moving. It looks like it should and maybe that’s one of the buffs we should be asking for.
I don’t think st.mk is some great attack that totally stuffs sweeps. But if your opponent is holding downback (therefor extending their hurtbox) and you’re at max range of st.mk and you’re preemptive with it, you can buffer spd behind it. If they block, whatever you’re safe. If they try to sweep, it could go under the leg and you can react and catch their extended leg with spd after you recover. But as Gief, if I’m up close, I usually pressing something so at that range st.mk isn’t a terrible choice.
Gief isn’t bad up-close. After HP SPD and EX SPD, if you dash in you’re at +2 with the option to land another SPD, or confirms into super or lariat combos depending. If you spend the entire match at mid-range, chances are you’re going to lose if the opponent isn’t another grappler.
The only thing he really lacks is a reliable confirm to make jump punishing not require a hard read of some sort. Even if he gets nothing else he would be much better; he already has reversals (EX SPD, V-Reversal, EX Siberian Express), tools to be a wall and bully the opponent into the corner.
Maybe now that the majority consensus is he’s terrible, Capcom will consider returning his ability to combo into EX SPD while nerfing its stun and damage to balance it out; being able to combo into a move that does 250 damage, 300 stun and allows the opportunity to dash up with advantage and do it again would be silly.
Why would you need to lower the stun or damage to balance. Every character does that kind of damage and stun and most of them leave you knocked down eating another mixup, why would Gief having that be silly?
Not to mention gief has to painstakingly bulldog through other character’s zoning tools to close the distance. He should be rewarded when he gets near at least
This in itself is what I think is the main problem of Zangief. Zangief has always been about the struggle to get in, but once in, hes a almost unstoppable force to get out. That is the main essence of a grappler, and in this version of Gief, the reward we get getting in doesn’t even come close to half outweighing the the neutral game trying to (5 frame SPD, 4 frame jab,no invincibility on any of our moves, a v-skill that can be grabbed, no way to make anyone scared being close to us, the list goes on) . Capcom did a good job making the other characters feel similar to their past selves with new flare,so that’s why I’m a bit disappointed that Capcom didn’t see what made Zangief truly Gief.
Every other character can do around 250 damage, 300 stun from a confirm using 2 light attacks into an ex move? Then they get the same situation again on conversion? Please provide some examples that don’t include v-trigger.
Given the fact that it would remain a command grab that cannot be blocked, I see no issue reducing the damage and stun it does. Looking at EX Borscht, it should be obvious that Capcom wouldn’t make it a combo tool without reducing the damage/stun.
EX SPD is your number 1 go to move. It’s your in field tool to lead into set-ups. And has killer range.
If EX SPD can be combo’ed into, the SFV universe would collapse.
Because Zangman could fish for the EX SPD in footsies/neutral, dash into the EX SPD game, crouch LK. crouch LP xx EX SPD, dash … and re-loop them like a broken record. And it would be SF4 all over again.
Were there any Giefs on stream at Dreamhack? I watched a little bit today and didn’t see a single one. Seems that no Giefs made top 50 either unless I missed something. This is really just sad now.
are you saying that with the ability to combo into exspd in its current form he would be broken? He would still have shit mobility, slow normals, and lose to half of the cast. Having him powerful up close would be fine.
It would depend on what he could combo it off of. If he could combo ex spd from an almost max range cr.lp, it most certainly would be broken. But seeing how cr.lp is his most plus move, I don’t know how you could fit not comboing within the game system without nerfing ex spd range (or cr.lp which would kill him)
If EX SPD combos loops into itself. It’s just too safe and too strong. And frankly not allowed in SFV. Plus, its brain dead pressure, just engage auto pilot.
Yet, we need an alternative for Zangief’s that don’t want to go all in. So we need a combo ender that takes damage, but has no follow up or can’t be re-looped. Either increase forward movement and hit box on Lariat, have EX Lariat or Russian stomping special attack.