It is frustrating at times, but I am tired of complaining about him. There is something great about playing with the “worst” player in the game, esp when you win.
Honestly, I don’t really think Zeif is bad, I just have poor execution with him.
If you can Cr jabx3 and occasionally do a 360 then its probably not your execution…
I don’t really mean in doing the moves as much as knowing when to do them.
No rewards for me…I mean i played him in ST & he was pretty low tier in that game too but reward you get when you finally get in & they cant breath was worth the battle. In SFV you win by making all the hard reads. Everything is pretty much working against him except for his crouch jab.
Actually In SFV, once you land one exSPD
They can still not breath if you make correct follow up pressure.
However the problem is, you can never get in opponent if they play their zoner correctly.
A lot of the recommended changes WON’T fit in SFV. And would be considered broken, in the context of V.
I think he’s the only character who can’t naturally combo into an EX special, let alone confirm into one
The ability to confirm damage is a huge asset at high level play. Because it takes away some of the risk.
More damage is good. But more tools or options is always better. The “re-counters” to evade SPD are lacking somewhat.
A 2 frame grab is not in the spirit of SFV. It would kill all in close offence against Gief, and V-Body kills all far offence.
We have to guess after V-Body. “Guess” is the keyword in V. But 2 more frame advantage on the V-Skill would be great.
We have to play Zangief “correctly” according to the Dark Lord Capcom, to even stand a chance. With that kind of walk speed and those kind of tools, leaves nothing left to the imagination!
I think you have to V-ON and V-OFF faster than you Wax ON, Wax OFF. Like a laser light show with the Iron Body.
I think we’re supposed to make a read and interrupt with V-Body for the paycheck.
I firmly believe the 5 frame throw isn’t the problem. Regular throws with 5 frame startup are VERY strong in this game. It’s the huge SPD recovery that’s the issue COMBINED with your mediocre options to punish them for avoiding the SPD. The struggle is real. To a point, where it might be better to try SPD’s in neutral and regular throws + frame traps up close.
Agreed. Would be nice to have more frame advantage on block for Stand MP and Stand LK.
That’s just way too good. You pop an EX SPD dash and your IN LIKE FLYN! =)
I’d settle for V-Trigger off non counter hit mediums, which isn’t easy to setup or confirm. That’s fair. A reduction in the V-Trigger startup by 4 frames!!!
I’ve thought about it more and these are the changes I think Gief needs now.
1100 health
D.HP juggle on AA to allow combo into EX air spd
EX SPD
- Fully invincible
- Damage down to 200
- CC on whiff
Lariat
- 5f startup
- Extend hitbox ONLY in startup frames so it’s better for combos
V skill
- Take ½ white life OR
- Neutral flexing recharges white life faster
V trigger
- Lvl 1 -2 on block, +3 on hit (still combos into CA, but nothing else)
- 15f startup
- Combos from mediums
- Fully invincible during active frames (aka while spinning)
- Flexing takes no white life during VT
- 1200 health
- combo into EX SPD
- cr HP CC
- make lariat usable lol
Evansgambit, I respect your posts more than most on here, and your suggested changes are very well thought out, but they do not address the fact that gief is still at a disadvantage when up close.
I get that 2 frame grabs aren’t in the spirit if sfv, but as it stands now he’s got absolutely no benefit to being closer than LP spd range. Vskill is too damaging to be your “go to.” If you eliminate, or even half the damage taken during it, it would probably be way too good, yet that is really the ONLY option in way too many situations. I truly feel the character flat out needs a redesign. He will never be viable as a tank that has to guess everything but LP. Worst of all he doesn’t even feel like a grappler when he gets rushed down. I’m not suggesting we go back to churning butter, but he should have something scary!
Also, why on earth are there so many people suggesting changes that have nerfs attached to them? Gief is by far the worst character in this game and you’d honestly suggest that the only way he can get a buff is if something else is nerfed?? I think sf4s “balancing” might have some of you brainwashed. Its ok to only give buffs to unviable characters…
I think saying there is no reason to be closer than lp spd is a little overboard. He has tick throws, can absorb hits, and great mixups after mp and hp spd.
Zangief has some of the best mid-range attacks in the game so it doesn’t surprise me that he’s a little weak up close. You can’t let a character have an advantage at every range without them being op. I think we all agree he is missing something and being able to combo into ex spd so those post knockdown mixups are more achievable would be more than enough to level things out.
With all of his armored attacks, Gief kinda reminds me of Maxima in KOF (who Peter mained… not sure if that’s a coincidence or not). Maxima is known to be particularly read-based so it makes sense Gief is too.
Can’t speak for others but I definitely didn’t put those nerfs in there just for the heck of it.
It would be pretty dumb if EX SPD did 250 damage, gave you a set up that could lead right back into itself AND was fully invincible.
As far as VT, I was mistaken. It’s already +2 or +3 on hit; dunno why I thought it was more.
Anyway, I’d like for the char to be viable AND fair.
What “great” mixup does Gief have after MP SPD…?
In the mid range he’s got an easily sweepable st.FP, a st.HK that gets FCP if they duck, a bunch of light/medium buttons that lead to nothing, and headbutt, which is admittedly pretty tight but also (in the mid range) leads to nothing.
I really mean no offense, but do you actually use Gief?
You’re plus 2 after a dash in, what more do you want? IMO, actually being next to your opponent when they wake up is huge in this game because most characters don’t have that. A good amount of his light and medium attacks counter hit even 3 frame jabs.
You act like his normals are garbage? His jab is awesome. Standing is a good anti air and crouching, despite being 4 frames, is on eof best in the game. It’s range is huge and it’s +3 on block (to my knowledge the only one that leaves you that plus and is one hell of a frametrap/tick throw). Do you know his st.mk goes over most attacks opponents can do crouching and moves his hurtbox so much that even lots of sweeps whiff under his leg? I would only use st.hk if they’re walking towards you and don’t seem to be wary of it (and aa obviously). But it’s hard to punish and it crush counters. His st.hp is a mixup in itself because they have to decide if you’re holding it or not and if they guess wrong they’re screwed (also +2 on block). I’m really curious how you can say his normals suck.
I didn’t mention Maxima for no reason. He also has moves that excel when you know if opponent is going high or low.
Mid range does Gief little good when he’s supposed to be in your face to get a bulk of his damage. I mean walking forward using c.jab amounts to little against better competition.
If you don’t play Gief then you have no clue what you’re talking about I’m sorry. It’s really that simple. Some of the stuff you wrote just made me laugh.
What about what I said was wrong? I acknowledged he’s a bad character needs some work. At least I’m actually saying my thought process instead of just talking down to people.
I do play Gief, btw. I didn’t reply to it because I thought it was rhetorical.
To be honest, gief’s footsie is medium-upper tier in this game
His jab is good, his S.HP and S.HK is good,
basically most of his footsies has long range and not slow in start up
His footsie is better than SFIV.
In my opinion, the best footsies in the game
Chun>Birdie>Claw>Fang>Gief
However, the biggest problem of gief is, he has zero solution against fireball character, who has enough patience, throwing out fireball and anti-air for whole day, and never get in to you; you can do NOTHING for it.
That’s why I still think gief has slightly advantage against some non-fireball character, like bison, mika, Karin, larua & Alex.
However, once you fight a real zoner like Chun, Guile, Fang, this will be a 10-0 impossible matchup.
Each time when fighting F.A.N.G
He just keep in the farthest distance
And then spam his heavy version fireball for entire day.
I can not move forward, I can not jump, I can not press any button, I can not do anything but to stand and waiting to die :s
Chun-Li can beat Zangief with 2 buttons. how is he possibly top 5 footsie? Even Birdie out footsies Gief.
Which Chun buttons are you having trouble with? Fierce? Gief’s st.hp absorbs that and a max range st.hk can still hit her even during her active frames when she’s at her lowest. Sweep? That ones more of an issue because the timings more strict but that was one of the sweeps I mentioned that go under Gief’s st.mk. The best answer for sweep is block and punish, it’s super negative on block. And you always have v-skill.
St hp isn’t really a solution to her pokes. It’s a read that is easily whiff punished. St Mk is much shorter than sweep. Not really effective. Anyone spamming sweeps really isn’t going to cause problems, as it’s punishable.
The problem comes in with her fireball. Her pokes are vastly superior, combined with a fireball. Headbutt becomes useless, and v skill is asking for an abundance of white life, since every v skill is taking a poke and a fireball, or worse lightning legs.
Giefs neutral is only decent because of cr lp. Nearly everyone else has relative fast fishing ccs. Ours come out as slow as molasses, but the taste is bitter, not sweet.