It is normally, but when you do stuff meaty, you get extra frame advantage. Not sure how much more adv you get on knee when you do it from back throw though.
I’m starting to think that MP SPD doesn’t have many options after it either. Picturing it in my head I can see maybe having enough range for St.HP but not if they backroll. It is my go to SPD after anti air resets but I don’t think it leaves you at any advantage. Maybe even.
st. LP and Lariat are great anti airs when you get use to them. You can get under them with a well placed st. LP.
fun with option selects against v-reversal
LP SPD - Dash vs normal recovery is not really viable (-2). They can lock you down with a wake up 5 frame medium poke that reaches, you can’t press buttons, and your options are block, CA, or V-Body into nothing (but you get slight +1 advantage if you release right, if they special cancel, you need to read it, and go level 2, or Flex to level 3 and 4)
Because of your limited options, you probably have to do Knee Hammer after LP SPD, and be at -5 with the threat of another (extended) LP SPD.
MP SPD\HP SPD\EX SPD - Dash vs normal recovery is +2. So you can press buttons.
The game from the MP SPD and LP SPD (if they don’t lock you down), is the threat of a MP SPD.
Recall back to your 4 hit pressure string at point blank (EX SPD). cr.LP. cr.LP. cr.LP. st.HK
You can still land the cr.LP. st.HK portion after MP SPD - Dash
It’s a complicated guessing game, but you do have some options after MP SPD - Dash
Your spaced slightly closer than LP SPD, so some of the more further reaching lights can hit you
If they were to press buttons, it would most likely be mediums, due to the range.
Your +2 after the dash, so you can press buttons, or activate the armor of Charged Stand HP (you don’t get armor until 3 frames?)
MP SPD - Knee Hammer puts you at about LP SPD range at -1
Your options after MP SPD - Dash game against normal recovery (quick rise):
- MP SPD or EX SPD (beats their buttons, but loses to back dash, jump, reversal)
- Standing HK (beats jump but loses to buttons or duck)
- cr.LP and then St.HK (beats jumps)
- cr.LP and then LP SPD or EX SPD
- cr.LP and then stand MK (but they can jump out)
- Head butt (for a knockdown if they jump), but loses to their buttons
- Stand MP *If they have a 3 frame attack that reaches, they can counter hit you. Otherwise, use this if they press buttons and counter hit into VT activation
- Instant LP and EX Boscht Dynamite, on a guess. Any later and their back jump arc allows them to escape
- If they press buttons, Charged Stand HP which is only viable because of the +2, giving you 3 frames to activate the armour, otherwise you can’t. It’s surprisingly fast after the absorb, working like a pseudo parry. Even though its vulnerable to lows, crouch LK shouldn’t be able to reach you, and crouch MK are more slower, so riskier for them to use against the Charged Stand HP.
Clearly, its still a work in progress, trying to understand the mess. But you have to go in, because you don’t have the tools otherwise. But you do have advantage.
*With regards to the MP SPD - Dash Game, going to further test cr.LP on hit, Charged Stand HP, options against Back dash, V-Flex (if you can get it out fast enough)
Evan, you kick ass. Thank you for all the help.
Good work Evan. I was gnna come home and start writing meaty options but you done it
GG
Thanks Kerplunk, hadn’t seen that second video. And also a big thanks to Evansgambit for that list!
Also does anyone know what Snake Eyez meant when he talked about how he kept beating Zangief’s CA with his own EX SPD and CA? Is there some kind of trick to it I’m not privy to?
EX SPD is throw invincible, so it should beat any grab CA if it starts up after the CA invul has ended. CA is fully invincible so it’ll beat any grounded attack.
Ex SPD is throw invulnerable therefore Gief throw CA missed;)
I’ve been playing around with walk forward meaty headbutt as a post Medium and Hard SPD. It sort of puts people in a weird head space where his intentions aren’t as appearant as when he dashes. I’m going to test it out against sweeps. In games I can hit with this most of the time, I’m just not used to converting into CA since I’m always surprised.
I actually got screwed by the input delay on CA yesterday. I had a bison player in the corner did a meaty crouching medium punch buffered in CA but the punch didn’t hit so I walked forward two steps to see what he would do. He neutral jumped and I immediately tried to jab him out of the air but guess what even though I’ve taken two steps forward critical art still came out. Crazy it has that much delay
Speaking of meaty headbutt and Bison, I had a case yesterday where headbutt absorbed the first hit of Bison’s CA on his wakeup and it continued on to knocked him out of the super. That was awesome.
There’s no back roll after throws.
this happened to me yesterday, I’m going to start trying to do this intentionally now
For MP SPD, dash into no-charge st.hp will crush counter back dashes. Zangief is too far to land the st.hk for that, if I recall correctly.
Your welcome.
My take on the meta from MP SPD - Dash is, there’s varying degrees to counter jumps - from full risk options like BD, to partial risk like Stand HK or Headbutt to low risk options that hit them during pre-jump while countering them if they press buttons.
It would appear that crouch LP. Stand MK is a key string - counters jumps and buttons. Alternatively use Stand MP by using itself, coming out of the dash. Anything else entails risk or can’t reach.
You have 2 chances at an SPD, and a third after Stand MK if you can sneak one in.
My headbutt always absorbed one or two hits of Bison’s CA then I block it safely, it happened many times.
Great analysis. Now help us crack the code that is Nash 8)