people complaining about teleports never played mvc2 and I played against some of the baddest magnetos around, mixup\magneto x\soo\yipes. It was a nightmare going up against that shit as a tournament player. I’m not complaining about mvc2 @ all, I’m just merely saying how strong hi\low was originally prior to mvc3
teleports in this game are definitely more scrub friendly which is the whole theme of the game. Easier to setup, easier to block
the knowingly nerfed most of the hi\low shit on purpose. Its one of the reasons characters in this game don’t flip around during the SJ process after you’ve crossed someones apex. For 14 years, that apex cross allowed air dashers the ability to 4 corner multiple hi\lo your shit bananas style and it basically rolled scrubs for over a decade. How can someone who can barely pick a team possibly hope to block that? so this is what they came up with and its definitely more fair but it makes for very shitty diversity.
if they didn’t nerf hi\lo so bad, I don’t think it would be a big deal but they took the nerf bat to hi\low pretty hard. They’ve removed a good bit of the hi\low stuff, over 75% of the basic mvc2 hi\low game plan is removed from this game. Not to mention that crouching normals can be VERY big making hi\low even harder to perform. Especially when characters like wesker can mash c.l+c.m for a push block attempt but @ the same time, throw out his best crouching AA. The massive crouching hit boxes and those retarded ass OS fuck up the hi\low process severely.
you either have to deal with teleports or deal with magneto in his prime. Choose your poison. I would like for both styles to be effective again. Storms mixup game in umvc3 is probably 1\10th of what it was in mvc2.
The problem with MVC3 though is that the game is too high damage for old MVC2 mix ups to be fair. This game would be beyond unplayable if the damage was as high as it was but having all the old school dash/air dash mix up. I don’t see how they could have balanced characters that aren’t reliant on that shit without doing what they did. Which is basically up the damage to more like Super Turbo where a good 2 reads gets rid of a character regardless of what archetype they are. This game is more like 3 on 3 Super Turbo with harder to react to mix ups than it is like MVC2.
The old school mix ups create a double issue for non Marvel players getting into the game because the other characters just don’t have strong enough mix up where they will land things as often as those types. Which I’m assuming is part of why they upped the damage so high in this game so if Hulk hits you it’s going to matter really big since he just wont compare mix up wise to Mag/Storm/Nova etc. If Storm and Magneto had their Marvel 2 mix ups…there would be no point of Hulk being in the game. With the way the game works their mix up differential isn’t as a big of a deal since if they hit you you’re out of there and those characters have at least a bit better of a chance of defending themselves from those characters than they did in MVC2.
Like you said also…introducing those types of mix ups would create a game that would just be way too inaccessible for the average player and we might not have even had a UMVC3. UMVC3 brings things more down to like they are in ST where as long as you make good reads you can get something going as a beginner but the smarter players will be able to protect themselves and force their mix ups on their opponents better.
Just like how there’s a lot of things older SF players would like to see in SFIV…there’s just specific reasons why those things aren’t in MVC3.
You can’t forget they also balanced this game around XF as well, which basically all mixups crazy. If they didn’t have to balance around that they could have been more similar to MvC2 style mixups, but now your limited to a time limit for those.
I don’t intend on starting another XF debate, but it has to be taken in to consideration when discussing balance.
I agree with you, but I don’t think people are complaining about teleports in general, just the massive difference in how they feel online. You can see it coming, block on prediction, and still get hit. hell, as crazy as tri jumping is in mvc2 offline, you literally can’t see magneto moving online, but people tolerate it because its just another lackluster port. MvC3 could have been better.
i feel bad using teleports sometimes. which i shouldnt. i actually forget i have one a lot of the time when im getting zoned im just so used to approaching from the front all the time. looking forward to trying out nasty teleport reset shenanigans with vergil though whn i finally play some one other than the cpu.
mentioning sims drills as “divekicks” is, well, stupid. sims drills take a whole nother level of spacing ability to use correctly and not get punished. its rare to find a good sim that actually knows how to drill right and use sims plethora of poke patterns to be a threat. also not many characters on oldschool sf2 actually have divekicks and NONE, yes NONE. have sf4 style yun/yang/rufus/ssf4 cammy, style extremely low height restriction divekicks… so pls before you come in and tell me about akumas “divekick”… stop… and think about it. i said newschool divekicks for a reason, to me newschool is 3s and sf4. cvs2 isnt a streetfighter game. there are no low height restriction divekicks in streetfighter 2 except for sims drills and sims drills are a pale comparison to newschool divekicks.
and if mvc3 is slow paced for you… you arent playing the right people. mvc3 is cheaper than mvc2. why people dont get that i have no clue. heres how it goes:
mvc2: faster paced poking game. easier to deal with mixup game. the game is basically ST played at super jump heights without ST’s damage.NEAR INVINCIBLE AAA to force poking games.
umvc3: slower paced poking game, faster mixup game. cheaper game in general since high/lows lead to easier to do TOD’s and left/rights can be done from full screen away. only one “invincible” assist in the entire game means that poking isnt a forced issue and people can simply hump each other to see who gets the random combo starter into resource based tod OR a reset or happy birthday.
neither game is particularly better than the other but both games cater to different types of players. mvc3 caters to baddies mostly cause of teleport mixups being free from anywhere as long as the opponent is on the ground. also, teleport mixups are completely impossible to block on reaction when a beam assist is used. unless of course your opponent is predictable with whether or not he will crossup.
basically teleports and divekicks the way they are in the newschool games put LESS emphasis on offensive based spacing and actually knowing whther or not your spacing will be correct to be “unpunishable” or at the very least know that your combo starter wont be too far away (when speaking of mvc3 style assist based teleport crossups) in sf4 divekicks accomplish the same thing, less spacing sensitivity needed and probably the easiest mode frame ever created in divekick x 2.
lol, funny to be called a scrub for NOT wanting the easy mode shit in the game… hows that work again? oh, the “pros” want easy mode stuff? even though they pwn even more when a game is actually hard?.. gotcha.
I think there are balanced teleports, and poorly balanced teleports. A character ought not to revolve around rushdown and possess a teleport unless the character’s damage is low and/or the character has low health.
Basically, Vergil, Dante, and Wesker’s teleports are just too strong for their character archetype.
i completely agree with that statement. its not the teleports themselves that i have problems with, its the fact that they just arent balanced AT ALL in a teleportation archetype IE slow long ranged mofos have slow normals that get blown up for free at close range and 360 characters dont have fireballs. thats the biggest reason why i dont like sf4 in general. archetypical balance is thrown all out of wack when there are characters that divekicks like they are PLUS a command grab (instant synergy anyone?) or a character that has a teleport a command grab a fireball and a divekick an invincible uppercut and the only “balance” is his shitty health and stun.
but ive always thought health was a lazy mnas way of balancing a game and in the end something that really cant be quantified, cause who knows ho said characters will be played once they get out of the capcom labs.
but meh thats neither here nor there, i just wish that like you said, teleports were balanced by taking away a little bit more from the characters or some other way of giving them weaknesses. strange is a perfect example of a character that was put in to be a teleport “archetype” and has the weaknesses to show for it. strange is an intelligent design in my mind… dante is not.
but meh, nothing in this game is unbeatable. im just salty that characters that i like DONT have teleports… LOL. balance them shits pls.
Honestly, I think teleports in this game could function just fine. IMHO what they need to do is just slash damage by like 35% across the board and make a number of assists invincible but impossible to combo of to balance out the great mixup potential that teleports have.
Also make certain moves have less combo potential, and with that I mostly mean aerial normals, so randomly tagging your opponent with a jumping H doesn’t instantly lead to a characters demise.
To me, what this game is lacking, is an interesting neutral poke/positioning game. I think high lvl play defense (ie. Combofiend) is slowly getting there, but ToD combo’s are still too easy to come by and impact the game too much for it to really be a back and forth match of wits and mental/technical prowess.
Also… as usual Xfactor breaks teleports even more by making something that is already hard to react to, semi-impossible to react to.
I feel like teleports in the game are pretty balanced… in terms of their usage & who uses them (anyway). Raw teleports are usually easily punished as long as you know what the character is capable of. Only when they are backed up with assists or if the opponent has you downloaded are they really volatile. I’m kind of cheap though… since I have finally found my team & it uses Doom Missiles & Vergil Tricks… it really only takes out players who panic though when they see dat missile spam & then dat blue trenchcoat :tup:
PS… sf3 is old as fuck… and cvs2 should count in this argument… I mean… Cammy? Yun/Yang? come on kid stop trying to back up facts acting like you know about those games and stick to your MVC3 scrub shit. MVC3 is so slow, if you think its fast paced YOU obviously never played mvc2…
I recommend you guys go into the lab and experiment against the teleport tactics that you have trouble with. It’s been a big help for me and I now able to deal with them a lot better than before.
Love 'em, and Fair. But 'porting has always been a Double-Edged sword.
With just about everyone in this game who can teleport, there’s always a vulnerable moment either before or after they shift time & space. And most teleporters use assists to cover their movements, which invites the possibilities of Happy Birthday. All in all though, I welcome teleporting characters. In MvC2 they were scarce, and I should know since I used Psylocke mostly for her mix-up 'porting (and failed at doing it.) It made the game fairly limited in what you could do, and what strategies you could implement. With teleporters in MvC3/UMvC3, the gameplay is more wide open.
Teleports in marvel are broken as fuck. Characters should NOT be able to seamlessly warp from one spot to another and be able to move/attack freely almost right off the bat. At least have some decent measure of start-up time/end recovery.
MVC2 is a good example of how it should be. Character teleports were useful but one could’nt just spam them whenever, because they were balanced. Creativity and various tactics like assist covering had to be in play to keep from getting punished.
Not the case in UMVC3. A solo wesker for example is free to warp everywhere he wants safely with minimal fear(if any) of being punished, and thats some Grade-A horseshit.
I try not to get too pissed off about it though because i have hope that this crap will be BALANCED in a future update. It just has to be…
The idea of 10+ years of Marvel 3: the teleport wars is kinda scarey.
Going into training mode and seeing how the teleports worked first-hand has altered my perspective on teleports alot. I have a better understanding of how they function, how much recovery time they have, and whether or not my character(s) can punish them. Dante’s, Vergil’s, Dormammu’s and Wesker’s teleport are all super punishable. The only raw teleports I find hard to punish are Deadpool’s and Phoenix, but Deadpool’s malfunctions and Phoenix is paper so I can understand why.
Assist + teleport can be a pain, but so is everything else in the game when you apply an assist to it.
If you think Wesker can port around without an assist and not die…you haven’t studied the game enough. Unless you’re playing a garbage tier character Wesker should be dying everytime he does a raw port anywhere near you. Only in XF3 does he even get remotely close to having safe ports and it’s still a gamble without an assist then.
You shouldn’t have trouble punishing raw Phoenix ports. Those are 20 frame recovery also.
Are they “super” punishable? Hell no. More times than i can count where a character just warped above or behind me and began attacking with little if any delay. Most of the time they don’t even bother to cover with assists because it often isn’t necessary if done right which isn’t hard.
You must be playing lousy Wesker player’s then, or you have godly reaction time. Due to its speed there is very little window of opportunity. Perhaps if my character is literally not doing anything, then i can attack them with no delay after they teleport, but most of the time thats not the case.
Practically in the time it takes to throw a hard attack and the recovery animation, a wesker can teleport behind and start wailing on me. Thats too fast.