I have a friend who plays her and I’ve found that using the palm more strategically helps since then she won’t throw out as many random pokes/dash up command grabs. Just something to try out. It works for me, I get them to stop pressing stuff since I eat maybe 75 damage and they eat like 100something on a CH palm
st.mp then nj fp again, not cr.lk…cr.lk on cammy cuz she wakes up different
neutral game is about even except you have a divekick and a safe rekka for pressure…st.mk blows up his elbow nonsense and you can tele to the otherside when he does it too and punish…palm/fake palm from a distance is ok and cr.lk on his wakeup is still really good.
Guy does more damage and i think hes the better character but i do feel yang wins this
good makoto tips guys. thanks.
God fucking dammit, you can’t anti air bison’s j.hp at all.
You can DP it, but yeah, that move gives me so much grief.
Bison is a annoying match up! and by annoying I mean he really closes a lot of tools yang has. This is when FOOTSIES, I gotta say it again FOOTSIES come into play. Get the normal out of the way, Crouching jab will lose against bisons c. Short, and both Yang and Bisons C. Short is just better although the frames are the same across the board. Bisons Scissor kick pressure are safe on block unless done close but that rarely happens, not to mention any OS after a blocked scissor will get stuffed by S. Forward. Bison has a free jump in against Yang, this is also ridiculous. Also the EX psycho being invincible on frames 1-5 really make frametrap/pokes difficult against a bison. In any case from the bison experience I had is remembering the frames/normal/ranges. I say frames because bison is usually in a charged state against Yang. When facing a Bison especially with meter I am always aware that he will simply reversal a missed link/trap/normal at command. I always find myself over extending strings and or links and getting punished instead of playing defensive and aware that Bison can change the match quickly. I do find myself FA normals and using rekkas safely. Anything that put’s me at a -1 while Bison has meter I try and stay away or not give the opponent a read, simply because of the ridiculous EX psycho. You can counter the ex psycho with ex DP. Since Bison has horrid Anti Air using save divekicks and applying safe pressure this is when it becomes tricky. Not only can you leave yourself open for a attack on a screwed up string or wonky divekick, you can make bison lose their charge or use tenshin. On paper, bison has 55 frames of charging for psycho, even after a hardknock down bison will still retrain charge. In the back of my head I am always telling myself Bison has charge constantly, it is safe to do hard knockdowns and crossup making him charge those frames again. I really hate this match up, but take advantage of Tenshin setups before that bison gets 1 meter of EX, tenshin setups makes them lose charge. Don’t challenge him with links and or terrible strings, unless the player using him is slow at reading those. Mixup each match, it will help.
Also using a safe tenshin after a meaty hit is somewhat difficult, since bisons ex psycho is a invincible on startup.
Playing footsies with bison is a waste of time. His buttons overall are better than yours, and he simply will beat you in terms of trading random hits. It’s far more efficient to just slowly and safely work your way in. Yang’s footsies aren’t that great, and you’re suggesting to play footsies against someone who is good at it? It’s better to get in Bison’s face and attempt to stay there.
Alright, I’ll take your advice and be offensive against Bison and play intelligently. I will think of another way of not using Yang’s footsies and “get in bison’s face”. It’s not like his footsies will stop me from doing that, but if that happens I will have to beat his footsies.
Sorry but i disagree…yang can actually do ok vs bison on the ground, you just need to pick your spots and not over commit. Use NJ. FP from a safe range to beat his scissors, dashes, and st,rh (range specific). When you convince him to stop pressing buttons or back him down you can move forward.
You gave one example of playing ground games against bison, which involves neutral jumping scissors… that’s a gameplan ‘most’ characters adopt against him. I don’t understand - picking spots and not overcommitting involves… what?
If you run into a bison that knows how to play against yang, he’ll just lame you out forever. His best mid range poke against yang is s.forward, not s.rh. If he’s throwing rh carelessly again and again at the range that jump neutral fierce would beat it, that’s the sign of a bad player. He’ll just lame you out with s.forwards, jump at you, make you block normals into scissors, etc. Relying on him running into neutral jump normals because he’s dashing or doing bad scissors is not a gameplan.
My question to whoever thinks yang can outfootsie bison is this: what normals are you going to use to reliably beat his? Low forward loses to a lot of things, his heavy normals have bad recovery, and jumping in is a guess. Bison’s far forward at max range will beat low forward is basically safe against anything significant. I’m not saying it’s hopeless, but I’m it’s pointless when Yang’s strengths don’t lie in trying to outfootsie a character with very good footsies.
The only thing I can think of is to just annoy the bison by not doing anything, and hope he cracks first and does something risky or dumb.
The whole point is to get in, so why not just… get in? Blocking scissors for a while doesn’t mean anything unless you’re going to die from the chip, and blocking normals as you slowly push him to the corner results in zero chip damage. At best he’ll have an ex bar or two, but he’ll get that eventually anyway.
Yes, I for one know bisons standing forward can stuff yang and he can OS RH or safe scissors for pressure. But, playing lame, and hoping bison does a mistake. Gonna put on my try hard pants here and take a shot that a bison who whiffs can be punished if Yang is near sweep range, with rekkas, crouching forward into roll kicks for ambiguous mixup. The point of getting in is being safe about it and not giving bison a opportunity for recovering. Confirming rekkas from a distance and punishing his normals does well, everyone knows bison has terrible Anti-Air but that does not negate that all yang players on this forum are 100% accurate hitting the feet with a DK, there are factors to include, Focus, Teleport, backdash, and even focusing a short scissor kicks countering. It’s also worth mentioning he has decent speed walking. You’re suggesting that Yang should get in, now I can do this easily against a opponent who is neutral but this isn’t as simple during a match against a Bison with experience against Yang, especially if a player understands his characters weakness and strengths and knows normals, frames, reversals, etc etc. This does not validate that I will stand and block scissors for awhile or stand in his standing forward range and get in. Asking the forum what Yang’s normals can out footsie bison? that is a redundant question that even you can answer yourself. But before I shove my foot in my mouth I will say this, having a game plan and defense strong enough against a bison and beating his footsies with punishes is apart of playing footsies, I am not saying Yang can beat Bison or should get in. There is always that factor of a player knowing the match up well. I grew out of that mentality that the person I am playing has zero experience. You experiment during the match, see if they mash during frame traps, see if they can tech well, see if they can read cross up and read your pattern. If they can’t you have a edge, but it is better mixing this up always. So getting in in important, nobody can see the insignificance of doing this, especially resetting bison’s charge by either cross up, mach dash, hard knockdowns, and making him guess wrong, especially knowing he has no 3 frame reversals aside form ex psycho. Also his c. fierce, ex scissor kick, ex crusher are also tools for anti-air and can prevent players from getting in. However just for the sake of theory and playing at a competitive level, what are the changes of playing against a player who has no knowledge compared to a player who is familiar with the match up. That’s where testing the match starts by seeing their reactions, from here it will be safe to get in if they are again, in the proxy of not picking up their mistakes and reading your pattern.
Man you really need to start using paragraphs.
Anyway, there’s a 1 one hour kyoku vs dogura video out here. It’s pretty safe to say that your best bet is finding an unpredictable time to jump in at an angle st.hk can’t antiair and make the most of you time inside.
I had a longer post typed up but figured it wasn’t worth it.
Main points here:
- you listed 3 things to punish bison whiffing something
- 2 of things things are slow, one doesn’t really work against far forward like I said
- they’re all whiff punishes, not normals you would would stick out against him
My question again:
what normals are you going to use to reliably beat his?
I’d rather force him to block a divekick and then try to kill him, but that’s just me
Yea sorry about that : (
Your beating up a dead horse. In that paragraph of a mess of mine I said Yang has no advantage against Bison, but if you wanna start being excessive. Our playing styles are different, you want to force divekicks when I have a lot in the back of my mind during a match that just comes into play. Oh and I mean redundant by excessive, everyone knows bison has better normals close range with Yang, hell I’ll even copy and paste what I said about that.
" Asking the forum what Yang’s normals can out footsie bison? that is a redundant question that even you can answer yourself. But before I shove my foot in my mouth I will say this, having a game plan and defense strong enough against a bison and beating his footsies with punishes is apart of playing footsies"
I’ll even link you something. We both have different playing styles, obviously we just think and play different, not gonna post on the forums and convince somebody to play differently especially if they are not asking.
You can really see the difference between Dogura and this Bison, unfortunately the Bisons I play in my community know their character very well.
Ok, within the first 30 seconds of the kyoku v dogura video, I can see kyoku doing what I had suggested in this thread:
carefully make your way in
I never said to force it if it’s not working, all I said was that it’s pointless to play footsies with bison. Yang’s strength is NOT in his footsies.
I don’t know how this is ‘beating a dead horse’ when no one has given me a direct answer. You keep dancing around it when I ask you specifically for the normals you would use when you play footsies.
It doesn’t really matter, because I’m jumping around this dogura vid and kyoku is working his way in, rather than trying to fight a bison in footsies.
Yeah I usually turtle vs bison. Try to let him hang himself with a whiffed slide or scissors or head stomp.
A smart bison will just turtle back tho. In which case I try to get a read on him hitting a button that I can dive kick.
I really try to get a decent life lead tho. Then when he guesses right on an escape I go back to turtling.
If I can get a lead and force him to move forward its a round I should win. If I get forced to go after him aggressively when he has meter advantage then he usually takes the round.
It’s just that ridiculous EX psycho crusher and it’s invincibility, really does shut down a lot of frame trap situations. After awhile I don’t rely on strings but set them up for a counter, or ex roll kick bisons ex psycho crusher or tenshin setup. Fierce rekka better be spot on or else stick with standing strong.
Mike, been wanting to ask you if a divekick done on a crouching opponent that hit’s their feet still considered safe? I am not sure if anything below the knee against a crouching opponent is safe or not, I eat crouching shorts/jabs it seems.
safe yes. true block string into crouch short or crouch jab, probrablly not.
you should still be at least still in plus frames tho as long as its hitting low. just take it into training mode and record yourself doing low dives and see if you can mash jab or short to beat the dummys next button
another thing with bison is sometimes you have to bait ex psycho once you have him in the corner. wait till he gets up and jump back. space it so you dont get hit by his legs and punish the recovery.
if he does ex head stop or empty reverse they both will miss and youre still in a spot to punish the recovery with raw slashes