Safe on block but you can just interrupt it with Ultra/DP etc if you see him beginning the animation for it
Messiah Kick (Rh Followup)
Same as the Mk Followup except you have a lot more time to react
Super
Punish with whatever you like
Ultra 1
Punish with whatever you like
Ultra 2
Punish with whatever you like
QUICK NOTE: If a Rufus goes to chip you out on wakeup with Ex Messiah you can just EX Dash straight through it to safety, don’t try EX DP though as it get beaten clean.[/details]
Ryu
[details=Spoiler]
Close Standing fp
Any light attack
Ultra 1
Ultra 2
Sweep (Point Blank)
St.lk
Cr.mk
Sweep
EX Sekyutai
Any Rekka (Doesn’t have to be Reversal timing)
Ultra 1
Ultra 2
NOTE: If you block Ryu’s sweep and it isn’t point blank you can still EX Sekyutai and Rekka (Fierce/EX) unless it’s at max range.
Shoryuken
Punish with whatever you like
Any Tatsu (Except EX)
Cl.fp xx…
Cl.mk Launcher xx…
Cl.lp xx…
Cr.mk xx…
Cr.lk xx…
Super
EX Sekyutai
EX Dash through and slap for throwing it out for no reason
Ultra 2
Ultra 1
EX Sekyutai
EX Dash through
Ultra 2 through
Ultra 1 through (point blank/in range of your Ultra 1)
Dodge and punish with whatever you like
Ultra 2
Punish with whatever you like
EX Run through
Yang’s Ultra 1 will make it whiff and you both recover at the same time [/details]
fst./cst.LP is nice too, which is something you can literally just throw out without giving a shit. Using fst.MK is risky sometimes because EX Dive kick is silly, but it does come with the bonus of becoming cst.MK if she gets too close…it’s a good button never the less.
fst.MP was nice, but I don’t know what the new fst.MP is like…it said they shrunk the hit box, so it could be bad now.
Both normals have a lot of recovery and can be stuffed and wiff punished (s.mp, but also cr.lp xx ex hands vs s.hk specially). They’re good because anything with a high hitbox is great against gief, but you can’t get predictable with them as all it takes is one jump in while you’re recovering for the pain train to begin. Plus random pokes only get you so far against the highest health bar in the game.
You can make things work if you take risks with frame traps (yang’s frame data is still pretty insane) and command grabs, but between being outright bullied by s.mp and the risk reward on stuff, it’s definetly an uphill battle.
Yang’s st.HK is garbage (Yun’s is amazing though.) It will get stuffed consistently and it is very easy to whiff punish. I think this is because for whatever reason, the hurt box is about 2x the size of Yun’s while the hit box has little less range.
st.HP is actually not so “gonna get stuffed” prone, but it still has a lot of recovery like otori said. Gief can also use another button to stuff it cleanly (can’t remember which but I think it’s one of his crouching kicks.)
HP Palm might actually be okay against Zangief as long as you don’t whiff it too often. The frame data changes are different from Yun’s and it’s a little hard for me to make sense of them (haven’t bothered to really test them out either.) I mean it says they took palm frames to 45f total…but they’re 40f total with 2012 changes, and were 44f in AE. They took active frames off…but did they put the additional frames during the start up or during the recovery…? confusing
It sucks overall because you’re always worrying about OS SPD, losing to st.MP, and doing ass damage on everything but whiff punishes (which are never going to happen because Gief never has to risk anything with a lot of recovery.) I think most Giefs literally avoid doing OS SPD for about half the match just to con you into walking near them.
Just wondering…I don’t have the greatest experience against gief with Yang (usually I just switch to Cody instead for this match-up, results in fewer broken controllers), but would st.mk be a decent poke against Gief? Not quite as much range as st.hk but it recovers a lot faster.
Cr.hp seems like a decent poke against Gief. Pretty good range (seems about the same as his cr.mk, maybe a bit more), and is slightly disjointed. Also looks like that it is able to beat Gief’s cr.hk (gonna test this in training mode real quick), and recovers faster than fst.hk. Still, it does have a decent amount of recover frames, and the second hit doesn’t always connect (especially if it’s being used as a footsie tool), so you probably still want to be careful with it.
Well, did a quick 5 minute test with cr.HP, and it’s…decent. It beats Zangief’s st.mp and cr.hk clean (obviously you lose to st.mp if he’s right on top of you, but at that point you probably will want to cry anyway). However, Zangief’s :df: :hk: is more of an issue. cr.hp technically can beat it, but the timing for beating it is weird. Thankfully it’s -11 on block, so you can punish it with almost anything (EX rekkas work, though I think regular rekkas would work just fine).
Though do good Zangief players even use :df: :hk: at all? I haven’t faced any real good ones recently, I just get a lot of people who wake-up SPD all day and use :df: :hk: at any given opportunity.
touched the gief match for a bit. not really in depth, but it does suck.
really its not super bad until he has meter, then he gets silly easy counter pokes on your big buttons into free entry. even if you back dash or whatever you get cornered pretty quick.
matches im not liking so much which may or may not be actually bad-
I think you named most of his bad matchups there. I would add Sagat as a definite bad one and maybe Fei Long as well. Bison Guile and DJ are more annoying then anything, but I would call them even.
Still not sure about Rufus and Cammy against Yang. I’ve fought too few of them in 2012 but it feels like an uphill battle, especially against Cammy
I don’t know about Rufus because I haven’t gotten to play that match a lot but I think Cammy really isn’t that bad. Yang has imo better tools against the Cammy vortex than 90% of the cast. He has a dp, ex teleport and U1. He can most definitely hang with her in footsies. Could be that I’ve mained Cammy since Super and switched to Yang in AE so I might know the match-up better.
The worst match-ups I feel are Gief, Hawk and Honda. Rog is definitely annoying as well but really can’t say how bad it is because I haven’t played that much against him.
I don’t think the Guile match-up is that bad…I think it depends on how you fight him. Personally, I find playing the match-up patiently, and slowly trying to work your way in rather than rushing in is the best way to handle this match-up. Focus dash through booms, or stand block if you’re too close, and slowly work your way in. Let him walk himself into the corner. Once you get in, stay on him. Pressure him to death, and mix it up with some overheads. If you get knocked away by a flash-kick, just slowly work your way in again. Don’t use Roll Kicks though; Guile’s booms recover so fast that it’s pretty much impossible to catch a halfway decent Guile player with it.
another thing that makes the gief match bad is the spacing youre forced to play.
you want to use big buttons, but from that range gief can mix up jump ins with empty jumps really super easy because of the lack of horizontal range on your dp. then if you attempt standing mk, it gets stuffed by his jump fierce and roundhouse