It’s PJFC. Pre-jump frame cancel. ie, cancelling a move during the startup of your jump animation, prior to leaving the ground.
The jc. FADC theories turned out to be unnecessary as you can just followup a connected Fukiage with another right away, no cancel or dash needed.
mid-screen juggle
FA2->one step forward->MK tsurugi (varying height)->LP fukiage->EX tsurugi
works because the tsurugi crosses up, only tested it on ryu and hakan so far, but that should be good enough
on hakan you do it with a slight delay
on ryu, you do it quick
thanks to Ume shoryu for this one
Hey guys…do we have a list yet of opponents that get it in the corner with fukiage after a EX Hayate? I think that this list would be beneficial in the future. I know that Cammy and THawk qualify. Anyone want to test this out?
Not sure if this popped up or if a lot of people use this but I’ve had a ton of luck with this mixup.
Karakusa + FP xx F.Hayate (pause) cr.lk xx LP.Hayate -> FADC -> LP.Karakusa (-> FP.Karakusa if you’re feeling lucky)
I’ve gotten it to work on…
Man, it’s a pain testing stuff out on a cast this big. :lol:
Thanks. I’ll update the list under that combo in the OP. Didn’t have Fei Long before.
Alright guys. Check this out. My gimmick for the day:
FA2 > delayed FA1 (where they will start flying after FA1 hits) > dash under > F +LK (reset) > dash under > LK Kara
You can also replace the f+LK with LP Fukiage to EX Tsurugi for an average but stylish combo - (262 damage / 426 stun)
Looks great in training mode but I’m not sure if someone sees this, will they freak out and freeze, or just mash reversal? Give it a shot.
I literally just tried this myself about a half hour ago in training mode and was just about to post it now, and then I see this. :lol:
Good shit. I’m going to try in mid match when I get the chance.
Something is wrong in the PRIMA guide frame data.
s.mp is supposed to give +5 on hit, but immediately following with HK karakusa (9 startup frames) makes you whiff, which means kara became active during the s.mp hitstun. So…
either s.mp is more than +5 on hit
or kara are a lot faster than 7/8/9
Either way a lot more frame traps karakusa are possible. I’ll try to list them.
hp hayate is supposed to have 21 startup frames… They warned it would be unreliable, so we have to test.
You have to take into account that s. MP is cancellable so you could possibly be cancelling the recovery so that it’s more than +5 on hit.
I think. I’m not sure if I’m making much sense here.
are you sure you’re waiting for the recovery of s.MP? or are you canceling it to karakusa? s.MP has 18 or 19 frames of hit-stun (add active frames+recovery+advantage…not sure if I have to subtract 1)
I have a theory that if you wait till the last possible moment to cancel some normals, that canceling into karakusa on block will actually throw…like s.LK, cr.LP and cr.LK
OK I have checked all this a bit longer… and that’s great news for karakusa, at least for me because I completely ignored this fact.
Karakusa, as a special, can be cancelled into from normals.
Quick proof is s.hp xx karakusa won’t give you the final animation of s.hp recovery where Mak pulls her hand next to her head.
That means a lot more frame traps, or tick throws, are possible. These are situations where you cannot be thrown or jabbed, as your karakusa will become active at the first non-stun frame of your opponent. Only backdash/jump/throw invincible reversal are options.
So… I’ve tested, blocked s.mp, blocked j.hp and j.hk can all be used to tick throw with karakusa. And many more blocked normals obviously. If you can obtain a whiff karakusa because of a hit/block stun of your opponent, you have a frame trap, so a tick throw situation.
Edit: unusable, see following posts.
s.HP is also retarded negative on hit…you’d never get the kara out…and if you cancel it, it’ll just whiff
Unfortunately, it does not appear that makoto has less that 10 blockstun on any of her ground normals. Which means that a special cancel into karakusa that does not whiff is impossible, unless of course the canceled normal was absorbed by armor.
or right, I was retarded and forgot to include the active frames for the block advantage >_<
So only non special cancelled tick throws are possible. That means on hit s.lp, s.mp with lk karakusa (with range problems)
Jumpin can be used to tick throw, you just have to get the right timing.
Anyone knows what happens when two throws become active at the same frame ? a throw and a move ?
Well, it looks like someone is already using st MP on hit and resetting it into a karakusa anyway. :lol:
[media=youtube]t4DbhAiOjs4#t=3m16s[/media]
Not sure if you can get much information out of this, maybe the guy was caught off guard, but even if that’s the case it could be an interesting gimmick, because most people would expect a hayate followup.
Pretty cool makoto too. Be sure to check the rest of the vid.
Two techable throws active on same frame will just tech each other. If one is not techable, then…that’s unknown. It’s iffy, though gut feeling would be that the untechable throw wins.
A throw will always beat a hitting attack if they become active on the same frame. (And the hitboxes allow both to hit, of course.)
a HAAAAA, found out this shit works!!! I’m a MADMAAAAAAN
to test out if it works, I basically put the makoto on playback doing cr.LK-> LATE cancel karakusa, and it will whiff
now if done properly, when you take control of yourself, block the cr.LK and the karakusa GRABS
you can TRY and say “but maybe you just waited till recovery” but there would be no way since cr.LK is only +3 on block, and RH kara comes out in 9 frames, leaving 6 frames between hit and kara…no way it should whiff
this also works with cr.LP and s.LP…I believe recovery+advantage on block+1 has to =8 or less
at some point, I will have to try to jab after blocking the cr.LK…if it grabs still it’s conclusive evidence
edit: yep, just tried throwing out of it, still got grabbed
yes I think I can confirm that this works. I’ve only gotten it once but I might need someone else with better execution to confirm. if they are crouch blocking its easier to grab them since their crouching hit box is bigger, but it’s still possible to jump or reversal out of it