I’m not dissing Hayate xx Super > Fierce xx Hayate. I find myself using that whenever I have super. It’s just there have been too many times where, after activating super, the opponent ran away, and by the time I was able to really establish a good rushdown and get some more damage in, super was almost gone or already gone.
Maybe my Makoto is just TOO reliant on EX Oroshi. I mean, look at my avatar. I NEED my GTFO move and feel naked without it.
been messing around with training to find a few optimal combos from FA(damage from level 2 FA):
FA2->MK tsurugi->s.FP->FP hayate(282/474)
so far this is the optimal damage and stun for small characters
FA2->karakusa->s.FP->feint->s.MP->MP hayate(254/474)
less damage and same stun, IAtsurugi might be hard for some people to do, though the link is just as hard >.>
FA2->MK tsurugi->s.FP->feint->s.MP->MP hayate(302/522)
big characters only (tested on zangief and hakan)
FA2->delay tsurugi->fukiage->EX tsurugi(326/506)
corner only
FA2->s.FP->feint->s.MP->EX hayate->LP fukiage->EX tsurugi(360/638)
corner only, character specific (tested on cammy, probably works on hawk)…
FA2->HP hayate(slight charge)->fukiage->EX tsurugi(346/502)
same conditions as above, 1 less stock, minimal damage decrease, lot less stun
FA2->oroshi->s.MP->EX hayate->LP fukiage->EX tsurugi(376/638)
same as above, highest damage I could get so far
FA2->oroshi->s.MP->MP hayate(262/452)
FA2->ultra1(418/150)
FA2->MK tsurugi->ultra1(448/262)
FA2->s.FP->FP hayate->super->ultra1 (525/394)
any combination of super->ultra I found did 525 with different stun values
By the time Makoto builds super she would already have better options than using it. Her EX attacks have a lot of utility.
I use EX Hayate to push enemies into the corner due to its long travel, plus combo afterwards. EX Oroshi, tons of stun and untechable knockdown. Knockdown is very important for Makoto as many of her moves don’t knockdown at all. Also a good focus breaker people that love to focus bait Makoto outside of her karakusa range.
We need to get that info on the front page, Scythe.
Anyone had any luck getting double Fukiage juggles after Abare? Cinematic or not, I haven’t been able to do it; tried about every way and combo I can think of with normal>Ex and all the different karas to see if its a range thing, but no dice. I know Abare>dash Lp Fukiage>JC>Ex Tsurugi is probably the best option for damage and stun, but it’d be cool to see some double Fukiage’s for nostalgia’s sake.
does the HP hayate only connect after a cl. HP?, im trying it after cr. lp, cr. lk, st. mp and it doesnt seem to work? Is it beneficial to even use HP hayate after a combo for the blockstun?
You can do FA2 > dash FA1 > dash LP fukiage > JC > EX Tsurugi, if you were so inclined. You can do it midscreen too, but you have to do the LP fukiage in the reverse direction. I tested on Ryu (corner) and Sakura (corner & midscreen).
it’s really terrible damage compared to…anything else she can do really
Yes it sure is.
Will do. Just give me a sec…
Done. I just replaced the old FA section wholesale with scythe master’s. Edited the notation for consistency. Put “combos and explanations by scythe master” at the beginning of the section. 
Anyone have some good tips for getting off Karakusa? Not post Hayate or anything. I didn’t see any strats for this. This is the biggest aspect of Mak I’m completely failing at currently. I hardly use it, but somehow still getting wins. I definitely need that added to my game, but I always end up whiffing, getting poked, or thrown out of it. I’ve been working on Kara-Karakusa, but it won’t really help if I don’t know when I should be using it.
There aren’t really any tips for getting off Karakusa. This version of makoto basically uses it for punishing. The only two ways I’ve come up with to land karakusa consistently are after you hit them in the air and they reset. If you dash immediately when you hit the ground you end up on the other side and until they get used to mashing out an invincible reversal in the opposite direction, you’re free to karakusa them. EX it if you want to be extra safe.
The only other time is when you’re at a stalemate and neither of you want to attack and you know they’re going to just hold down back. It’s SUPER gimmicky but works until they get a feel for it. f.hk feint into karakusa. When they start catching on…well, I haven’t made it that far yet because I only use this very sparingly against very turtly people.
Basically if you’re trying to land naked Karakusa you’re playing ssf4 makoto wrong. It has barely any range and loses to normal throws in most cases.
Cr jab x2, st jab, cr mp, mp hayate works on dudley and Ibuki so far. Can’t do it consistently though, can someone reconfirm.
Ok, this is the right thread for it, so I will repost what I already wrote about frame trap karakusa:
Well, throws beat karakusa, yes and no. If you’re in your opponent’s face, both out of stun, if he throws and you karakusa, you’ll get thrown. But:
Basically, it is “tick throwing”, with a command throw so they can’t tech. Their options are throw invincible move, jump or backdash, but they CANNOT throw/tech/poke.
If you like shenanigans, you can also consider moves that let you at +4 on hit: c.lp and lp oroshi.
If you want to spend ex meter, ex karakusa has a 5 frames startup, letting you frame trap with a lot more moves (and notably c.lk/c.mk, so you can setup with a low)
By the way, counter hit adds +1 on lights, +3 on mediums/hards and special. Counter hit s.mp (which happens a lot) lets you frame trap with hk kara, for a better range.
Meaty attacks also lead to frame traps, especially with Makoto’s ridiculous active frames on some moves. A well timed, blocked s.mp meaty gives a lot more than the standard +2 on block…
A last remark on post-jump tech : if your opponent does a non-empty jump and whiffs, he has 4 landing frames where he can only tech throws, and block at the 3rd frame. That means non empty jumps can be dashed in with the right timing, and command thrown. It can be done on defensive back jumps (think Rog’s backjump+hp) because of mak’s amazing forward dash.
I’m almost sure this has been mentioned already, but I’ll throw it out there just in case.
HP and Ex Fukiage advance her forward the same distance, so if you’re using Ex Fukiage just for the sake of moving further, it’s a waste of a bar.
great read man thx. i have a better understanding for it now. cause that old 3s shit where u dash and command grab is not poppin in the game flow like that
For clarity, fukiage -> u2 (non-cinematic) -> anything is impossible right?
but a raw u2 (non-cinematic) can be juggled afterwards.
Am I correct that U2 will only combo properly from a level 2 FA if it’s a counter-hit? I’ve been having issues whiffing it on regular hit in training mode - I did manage once to get non-cinematic MK Abare, but that seemed to be a spacing thing, because I couldn’t easily recreate it.
fukiage setups?
Seems like the best combo dmg I get w/mak start with a landed fukiage… but how to set it up?
Other than moves like bison headstomp I have a hard time pulling it out on reaction. Doing a dp with most characters on reaction is no prob… but I normally catch em high… not fukiage low…
I had a bit of success going air to air… connecting… then pausing and doing fukiage as they come down… but it doesn’t work on most people and is stupid hard to do on the people it does work on… (interestingly enough it doesn’t combo… but I don’t think it can be blocked when done right.) Not practical at all… and the 90% of the time when it fails you get smacked for it.) That or I just suck at it… if anyone has had more success w/this let me know.
I wasn’t going to get this game til I played mak at my friends house… then I bought it 2 hours later and have played nothing but makoto since… hehe
Most people are really focused on karakusa setups… but they are very simple to land seemingly compared to fukiage…
Any tips on landing that shit? Or do I just need to totally get used to having my dp timing reversed and timed to hit low instead of high?
Any reasonable setups other than as AA or focus crumple vs big characters?
Side Note: Karakusa isn’t to bad to land…but EVERYTHING beats it… wtf… and why does it work completely different than every other cmd grab? T-hawk/abel/zangief cmd grab you instantly w/no possible escape and deal 1/3 of your life instantly? But karakusa that MIGHT lead to that dmg amount… has 5 frame startup, no invincibility, can be ducked by 1/2 the cast, jabbed by 3/4 of the cast?
I’ve just been testing PFJCed karakusa, i assume if we do this against honda it’ll beat out his command throw as you’re in the air? And does anyone know the specifics of Special jump cancelled moves, like are you in the air the whole time the move is being used.
Also whatever happened to that PFJCed fukiage FADCless dash or whatever it was that PFJC with makoto seemed to offer extra out of the ordinary, did it work like the theorycrafters said?
Oh and what does PFJC stand for again?