"You wanna get choked?!" Movelist/Combo Thread (Updated: AE changes)

[tylerzd]

UPDATE - December 23, 2010
-EX Hayate > lp Fukiage in the corner confirmed on Blanka. Thanks Boom Cube!
-Focus crumple > fukiage now works on everyone, and
-cr.LK xx EX hayate confirmed in AE edition. Thanks candeisis!
-AE: What Changed? section added. Please post updates in this thread so I can add them ASAP (I don’t have access to AE at this time). Recommend heading over to the Arcade/DLC changes thread for the latest discussions on this topic.

UPDATE - November 22, 2010
-REGARDING AE CHANGES-

I will be happy to integrate any and all new move properties/combos available in the Arcade Edition. Once released, be sure to post new AE specific findings in this thread so I can add them to the OP as soon as possible. Thanks Makoto community! You’re the bestest.

**- if you find any inaccuracies or have new information that needs posting in here, please either post the info in this thread or contact me via PM.

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Arcade Edition: What Changed?

-EX Hayate > lp Fukiage in the corner confirmed on Blanka
-FA lvl 2/3 > Fukiage works on everyone (probably)
-s.LK whiff kara cancel Karakusa
-cr.LK xx EX Hayate now possible

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Notes:
-If a listed special has (ex) after it, this denotes that both normal and ex versions of that special work in the combo in question.
-Damage numbers listed in RED. Stun numbers listed in BLUE
-Combos that have a ***** in front of them are your standard go-to universal BnB combos
-Make sure to drop by izanagisama’s Kara thread for much more detailed listing and analysis of Makoto’s numerousl kara cancel options. GO!: Kara Compendium: Info/Videos of Various Kara Cancels and other Assorted Techniques

Misc important factoids about SSFIV Makoto:
Stamina/stun - 950/1050
Kara normal throw: :r::lk:~:lp:
Kara back throw: :l:+:lk:~:lp:

*f.HK feint crosses up a downed opponent (hold kick)

FASTER BACKDASHING!

When doing backdash into another dash (forward or backward), tap focus as you recover from the first one (just as you finish inputting the second one).
Basically you cancel the end of the first backdash into focus and then immediately into another dash. It seems like with Makoto you never want to be in a situation where you backdash into nothing.

Movelist
Hayate - :qcf::p: – EX version knocks down on hit. Hold punch to charge, press kick to cancel charge.
kara EX Hayate - :qcf:+:lk:~:2p:
Hayate cancel - :qcf::p:+:k:. Pressing punch and kick simultaneously works.
Alternate input: :qcf: :k: (hold) ~ :lp: (hold) to cancel on first possible frame.
kara Hayate cancel - Move forward: :qcf:(:lk::mp:) Hold. Move backward: :qcf:(:hk::mp:) Hold

Fukiage - :dp::p: – jump cancellable. LP version is stationary. MP/HP/EX advance forward a short distance.

Oroshi (armor breaker) - :qcb::p: – invulnerability frames on EX version
kara cancel: :qcb::r:+:lk:~:p:

Tsurugi - (in air) :qcb::k: – Normal versions hit mid. HK version knocks down. EX version hits overhead and knocks down, 2 hits.

Karakusa (40/80, ex=(60/120)) - :hcb::k: – 1 hit of armor on EX version. LK = short range, fast startup. HK= longer range, slower startup
Kara cancel. Note that this is not easy:
-:r:+:lk::df::qcb:+:k:
alternate slightly less challenging inputs: :r::df::r:+:lk::l:+:k: -or-
:r:+:lk: :db: :l:+:k: -or-
:r: :d: :df: :r:+:lk: :l:+:k:
[media=youtube]KzDz5RBUimw[/media]
Maximum range: [media=youtube]574-PSqSrSE[/media]

Super - Tanden Renki - :qcf::qcf::p:
Ultra 1 (480) - Seichusen Godanzuki - :qcf::qcf::3p:
Ultra 2 (390) - Abare Tosanamikudaki - :qcf::qcf::3k:
range is selectable: After inputting the initial qcf*2 + 3K, press and hold one of the kick buttons to determine range. LK = short, MK = medium, HK = long. This input has to be done between the time the ultra is initiated and the moment Makoto hits the wall. Meaning you can’t really wait for the wall flash, assess the situation and then pick a distance, unfortunately.

Notable normal combos:
cr.LP x 3
s.LP > s.LK
s.LP > s.MP
cr.LP > cr.LK
f.MP > s.MP
s.MP > s.MP
s.MP > cr.MP
s.MP > s.MP > s.MP (Character specific. Refer to Baseballfan1456’s section in second post)
meaty s.MP > s.HP
meaty s.MP > cr.HP
Crossup j.MK > cr./s.MP
f.HP * 3 target combo (220/350)
nj.HP > f.HP * 3 (294/570)
s.LK, s.MK target combo
f.MK, HK target combo - the cancel to HK can be done at any time.
s.HP xx hayate cancel > s.MP
s.HP xx hayate cancel > s.MP > s.MP – (Character specific, please refer to theDUKE’s combo listing in second post)
counterhit s.MP > cr.HP
counterhit s.HP xx hayate cancel > s.HP

Counterhit combos courtesy of Pimp Willy and Rushdown.TV are detailed in following video:
[media=youtube]GE7uaPc2Y2s[/media]

Karakusa:
*****Karakusa > s.HP xx hayate cancel > s.MP xx EX Oroshi (252/500)
*****Karakusa > s.HP xx hayate cancel > s.MP xx MP hayate (ex) (238/444)
*****Karakusa > s.HP xx hayate cancel > s.MP xx MP Hayate xx Super > s.HP xx HP Hayate
*****Karakusa > s.HP xx HP hayate (ex) (208/376)
*****Karakusa > s.HP xx EX Oroshi (216/440)
Karakusa > s.MP > s.MP xx hayate
Karakusa > s.HP xx hayate cancel > cr.LP, LP hayate
Karakusa > s.HP xx HP hayate xx Super xx Ultra 1 (573/376) -or- s.HP xx HP hayate
*****Karakusa > s.HP xx hayate cancel > s.MP xx MP Hayate xx Super xx Ultra 1(541/444)
*****Karakusa > Ultra 1 (424/80)

Hayate:
**- *there are additional combo properties added if/when you hit a lead in charged hayate (not comboed into). For examples of this please see TGS’ quoted post in the second post of this thread. *
re: short charging hayate inside a combo, info from Skatan Milla:

Basically, the short charges combos do more damage and stun than doing her basic hayates [note: +15/+15 for both LP and MP. s.Charge LP does +5/+15 over regular MP. s.Charge MP does +5/+15 over regular HP].

st.MP xx short charge LP Hayate
st.HP xx short charge MP hayate

The downside to short charge mp is that on some (all?) characters you don’t get in range for hk karakusa where you would have after a hp hayate.
However, since there are plenty of characters where you don’t get in range on hp hayate anyway it’s better to use st hp x short charge mp hayate instead of hp hayate on them.
I don’t see a downside to using st.mp x short charge lp hayate, but there may be something I’m missing?
Short charge hp hayate doesn’t combo from anything, not even ch st.hp, so I didn’t bother writing about it.

Havent seen this mentioned on the last few pages so I figured I’d throw it out there for the masses.

s. lk has more range than all of her other light attacks, and does more damage as well (same stun). Also, I could be wrong, but it feels like you get a bit more hit stun on it for easier SCHs.

**Recommended BnB: **
-s. lp, s. lp, s. lk xx lp Hayate (155/224)

I noticed that the s. lp into s. lk isnt in the notable links section. I’d say they’ll prove to be really useful. I actually went back while typing this post and realized it was in that “Basic Makoto Guide” video.

Here are a few combos and values using s. lk.
SCH = Short Charge Hayate

-s. lp, s. lp, s. lk xx lp SCH 166/235 (BnB w/ SCH)
-s. lp x3, s. lk~mk 142/235
-s. mp, s. lk xx hayate 172/246
-s. mp, s. lk xx lp SCH 184/258
-mp Oroshi, s. lk xx lp Hayate 212/346
-mp Oroshi, s. lk xx lp SCH 224/358

One thing I noticed about the s. lk is that if you link into it from c. lp (you can, when frame data says you cant) you cant cancel it into ANYTHING. Glitch?

Hopefully more to come on that later…

Edit: its a tighter link than c. lk, but you can land s. lk after mp Oroshi from further away.

Edit2: Mix up potential?..You can get Tsurugi to hit front side and land on the back side against some characters. I got it to work on Hakan and not Makoto. Those were the only ones I tried it on. Both in the corner and mid screen, though mid screen is a little tougher. Its easier to find the timing off of back throw mid screen. Corner is cake for the most part. You can set it up w/ a sweep, EX Hayate (tech fall), and Oroshi as well. If you get a UTK (untechable knockdown) dash to make sure theyre all the way in the corner.

**hit confirms:
**cr.LP *3 xx LP Hayate
**cr.LP, s.LP > cr.LK xx LP Hayate
**cr.LP > cr.LK xx LP Hayate
**cr.LP > s.LP > s.MP xx MP Hayate (ex) (168/264)
**s.MP > cr.LK xx LP Hayate (162/246)
**s.MP > s.MP xx MP Hayate (ex) (200/296)
*****cr.LP/cr.LK xx LP hayate
*****s.MP/cr.MP/s.MK xx MP Hayate (ex)
*****s.HP xx hayate cancel > s.MP xx MP Hayate (ex)
s.HP xx hayate cancel > cr.LP, LP hayate (192)
j.MK/j.HK > s.MP > s.MP xx MP Hayate (j.MK 258/364, j.HK 278/464)
*****j.MK/j.HK, s.MP/cr.MP/s.MK xx MP hayate (ex)
*****j.MK/j.HK, s.HP xx HP hayate (ex)
*****j.MK > s.HP xx EX Oroshi (256/460)
*****EX hayate > f.LK (corner only. Does not work on Blanka?)
*****EX Hayate FADC f.LK (midscreen)
EX Hayate > LP Hayate (corner only. Character Specific. Please refer to izanagisama’s chart below)
EX Hayate > LP Fukiage (corner only. Character Specific. Please refer to izanagisama’s chart below)

Makoto’s Thunderhawk Corner Rape of Doom (T.Hawk in corner specific)
Karakusa > s.HP xx EX Hayate > LP Fukiage > EX Hayate (330/602)
EX Karakusa > s.HP xx hayate cancel > s.MP > s.MP xx EX Hayate > LP Fukiage > EX Tsurugi (404/728) -that should work w/regular karakusa too I imagine

Tsurugi (air to ground):
IA LK/MK Tsurugi > cr.LP xx LP hayate (182/266)
IA LK/MK Tsurugi > cr.MP xx MP hayate (ex) (230/316)
*****IA LK/MK Tsurugi > s.HP xx HP Hayate (ex) (268/436)
*****IA LK/MK Tsurugi > s.HP xx hayate cancel > s.MP xx MP Hayate (ex)
*****IA LK/MK Tsurugi > s.HP xx EX oroshi (276/500)
IA LK/MK Tsurugi > Ultra 1 (484/140)
IA LK/MK Tsurugi > s.HP xx HP Hayate xx Super xx Ultra 1 (625)

Tsurugi (air to air):
Tsurugi > EX Hayate (normal version of hayate should work in the corner)
Tsurugi > Fukiage > Hayate (corner only)
Tsurugi > EX Oroshi (corner only)

Fukiage (anti air):
Optimal BnB pending…
*****Fukiage > j.HP (200/360)
*****Fukiage jc. MK Tsurugi > EX hayate *- normal hayate works in corner (280)
Fukiage > EX Fukiage > EX Tsurugi (368/536)
EX Fukiage > EX Fukiage
Fukiage > HP Fukiage > EX hayate (character specific?) (280)
EX Fukiage > Ultra 2 > followup
Fukiage FADC > Ultra 2 > followup
Fukiage xx Super > Ultra 2 (312) (no post U2 juggles? needs testing…)

Oroshi:
*****s.MP/s.HP xx EX Oroshi
*****s.HP xx hayate cancel > s.MP xx EX Oroshi
*****j.MK/j.HK > s.HP xx EX Oroshi (j.MK=(256/460)j.HK=276/560)
LP/MP Oroshi > cr.LP xx LP Hayate (192/346)
MP Oroshi > s.MP xx MP Hayate (ex)
MP Oroshi xx Super xx s.HP xx HP Hayate (311/496)
LP/MP Oroshi xx Super xx Ultra 1 (585/200)
counterhit LP/MP Oroshi FADC s.HP xx EX Oroshi
meaty MP Oroshi > cr.HP
meaty MP Oroshi > Ultra 1

Applications for Oroshi FADC by TGS:

Random shit you may or may not know: Makoto can combo after a FADC LP or MP Oroshi on regular hit (they don’t need to be crouching) with c.LP or s.LP. However, it feels like a 1-2 frame link, so yeah, practice it up.

Makoto can do the following on everyone regardless of standing/crouching

• LP/MP Oroshi, FADC, c.LP, s.LP, s.MP xx Hayate/EX Hayate/EX Oroshi/Hayate Cancel
• LP/MP Oroshi, FADC, s.LP, s.MP, s.MP xx Hayate/EX Hayate/EX Oroshi/Hayate Cancel

And on some crouching characters with wide hitboxes (i.e. Honda), she can do

• LP/MP Oroshi, FADC, s.LP, s.MP, s.MP, s.MP, s.MP xx Hayate/EX Hayate/EX Oroshi/Hayate Cancel

However, if you get a CH LP/MP Oroshi FADC (ideally from beating out pokes/mashing), she’s able to link a s.FP and s.MP after the dash (just plink it), so you can transition into her usual s.FP/s.MP combos like

• CH LP/MP Oroshi, FADC, s.MP, s.MP, s.MP xx Hayate/EX Hayate/EX Oroshi/Hayate Cancel
• CH LP/MP Oroshi, FADC, s.FP xx Hayate Cancel, s.MP xx Hayate/EX Hayate/EX Oroshi/Hayate Cancel

What does this all mean? Makoto has a way to keep the pressure on her opponent with Oroshi FADC that actually pays off (i.e. using Oroshi to hit outstretched limbs and actually be able to get in close to do an actual combo), so yeah.

lvl 2/3 Focus attack - combos and explanations by scythe master:
FA2 > MK tsurugi > s.HP xx HP hayate (282/474)
so far this is the optimal damage and stun for small characters
FA2 > Karakusa > s.HP xx hayate cancel > s.MP xx MP hayate (254/474)
less damage and same stun, IAtsurugi might be hard for some people to do, though the link is just as hard >.>
FA2 > MK tsurugi > s.HP xx hayate cancel > s.MP xx MP hayate (302/522)
big characters only (tested on zangief and hakan)
FA2 > delay Tsurugi > Fukiage > EX tsurugi (326/506)
corner only
FA2 > s.HP xx hayate cancel > s.MP xx EX hayate > LP fukiage > EX tsurugi (360/638)
corner only, character specific (tested on cammy, probably works on hawk)…
FA2 > HP hayate(slight charge) > Fukiage > EX tsurugi (346/502)
same conditions as above, 1 less stock, minimal damage decrease, lot less stun
FA2 > LP/MP Oroshi > s.MP xx EX hayate > LP fukiage > EX tsurugi (376/638)
same as above, highest damage I could get so far
FA2 > LP/MP Oroshi > s.MP xx MP hayate (262/452)
FA2 > Ultra1 (418/150)
FA2 > MK tsurugi > Ultra1 (448/262)
FA2 > s.HP xx HP hayate xx Super xx Ultra1 (525/394)
any combination of super->ultra I found did 525 with different stun values

Midscreen focus juggles: FA2 > one step forward, MK tsurugi (varying height) > LP fukiage > EX tsurugi
works because the tsurugi crosses up, only tested it on ryu and hakan so far, but that should be good enough
on hakan you do it with a slight delay
on ryu, you do it quick

FA2 > dash*2 > HP fukiage > kara HP fukiage > EX tsurugi (326/522) (works on:
guile, honda, makodo, abel, el fuerte, dictator, sagat, gouki, deejay, t.hawk, cody, sakura) – v-ryu

FA2 > slight delay FA1 > dash forward (you will cross under) > LP Fukiage (you have dashed under so do the motion accordingly) > EX Tsurugi (when near the corner) or EX Hayate. – highlulu

Super
LP/MP Oroshi xx Super xx Ultra 1 (575/200)
MP Oroshi xx Super xx s.HP xx HP Hayate (311/496)
s.HP xx Super xx Ultra 1
NOTE: Super is cancellable off hayate and any non-juggle combo ending with hayate.
s.HP xx HP hayate xx Super xx s.HP xx HP hayate (367/564)
*****… xx hayate xx Super, s.HP xx HP hayate
eg, j.HP > s.HP xx HP Hayate xx Super > s.HP xx HP Hayate (421/760)
*****… xx hayate xx Super xx Ultra 1

Ultra 1:
j.MK/j.HK > Ultra 1
meaty cr.LK > Ultra 1 (aka the v-ryu special… because i said so)
meaty MP Oroshi > Ultra 1
meaty s.MP > Ultra 1
counterhit st.MP > Ultra I (st.mp must be spaced)
*****Karakusa > Ultra 1 (424/80)
IA LK/MK Tsurugi > Ultra 1 (484)
IA LK/MK Tsurugi > s.HP xx HP Hayate xx Super xx Ultra 1 (625)
lvl 2 FA > Ultra 1
s.HP xx Super xx Ultra 1
*****… xx Hayate xx Super xx Ultra 1

Ultra 2:
(ex) Fukiage > Ultra 2 > EX Tsurugi- This is looking very finicky and character specific. Needs testing.
Fukiage FADC Ultra 2 > followup
lvl 2 FA > Ultra 2 > followup
Fukiage xx Super > Ultra 2 (312) (no post U2 juggles? needs testing…)
followups:
*****Ultra 2 > jc. MK tsurugi > EX hayate (540/217) *- normal hayate works in corner
Ultra 2 > dash LP Fukiage > EX tsurugi (582)
Ultra 2, EX Fukiage, EX Tsurugi (corner only) (609/314)

**Special thanks to Sharin, The Mullah, Ouroborus, Fstrike, Smileymike101, Sephiroth73003, Kexx, LoneWolfZ, scythe master, ShawnMcCool, Mienaikage, trag13, Arc-rail, HBRD, Chris Hu, Sprint, Nitro263, Dang, MrQuotes, Mr. Basara!!, Bill307, jchensor, Richard Nguyen, Pimp Willy/www.rushdown.tv, Kouryuu, v-ryu, Theli, Iodom, Kyune, Skatan Milla, izamagisama, TGS, Baseballfan1456, theDUKE, candeisis, Boom Cube

[tylerzd]

izanagisama’s Corner EX Hayate followup/Mid Screen reset chart

Okay, finished up some testing today… Here’s what I’ve got:

• Hayate Column refers to (Corner) Ex Hayate>Lp Hayate.
• Fukiage Column refers to (Corner) Ex Hayate>Lp Fukiage
• Corner Reset Column refers to (Corner) Ex Hayate>F+Lk
• Mid-screen Reset Column refers to FA2>FA1>Dash>F+Lk and Ex Hayate>FADC>F+Lk.
  Assorted notes on right side.

…Hayate…Fukiage…Corner Reset/Mid-Screen Reset
Ryu…No…No…Yes/Yes
Ken…No…No…Yes/Yes
Honda…Yes…No…Yes/Yes
Ibuki…No…No…Yes/Yes
Makoto…Yes…Yes…Yes/Yes… j.HK > s.HP xx EX Hayate > LP Fukiage > EX Tsurugi (426/764)
Dudley…Yes…No…Yes/Yes… No Dash Under
Seth…Yes…No…Yes/Yes
Gouken…Yes…No…Yes/Yes
Akuma…No…No…Yes/Yes
Gen…Yes…No…Yes/Yes
Dan…Yes…No…Yes/Yes
Sakura…Yes…Yes…Yes/Yes
Hakan…Yes…No…Yes/Yes… No Dash Under
Guy…Yes…No…Yes/Yes… No Dash Under, No FA2 > FA1 > dash > Fukiage
Cody…Yes…No…Yes/Yes… No Dash Under
Dee Jay…Yes…Yes…Yes/Yes
Cammy…Yes…Yes…Yes/Yes
Sagat…Yes…No…Yes/Yes
Dictator…Yes…No…Yes/Yes
Viper…Yes…Yes…Yes/Yes
Abel…Yes…No…Yes/Yes
Dhalsim…Yes…Yes…Yes/Yes
Chun…Yes…No…Yes/Yes
Juri…Yes…Yes…Yes/Yes
Guile…Yes…No…Yes/Yes… No Dash Under
Blanka…No…No…No/Yes
Zangief…Yes…No…Yes/Yes… No Dash Under
Rufus…No…No…Yes/Yes… No Dash Under
Fuerte…No…No…Yes/Yes… No Dash Under
Claw…Yes…No…Yes/Yes
Boxer…Yes…Yes…Yes/Yes
Fei Long…Yes…Yes…Yes/Yes
T.Hawk…Yes…Yes…Yes/Yes
Adon…Yes…No…Yes/Yes… No Dash Under
Rose…Yes…Yes…Yes/Yes… No Dash Under

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Here’s a jpg chart featuring izanagisama’s chart above as well as FFSS, s.MP*3, and Focus attack to fukiage related combos compiled by theDuke, Baseballfan1456 and v-ryu:

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Lead Charge Hayate combos from TGS:

**- exact frame data re: hayate charge times can be found in the Makoto section of the SRK wiki. I’ll leave TGS’ explanation up as well just to keep the numbers in his combos consistent. Note that EX hayate behaves slightly differently to level 4/5 hayate (launches higher) contrary to explanation below, keep that in mind:

http://www.shoryuken.com/wiki/index.php/Makoto_(SSFIV)

Level 1 = No charge.
Level 2 = Slight charge up to about 1/2 second.
Level 3 = 1/2 to 1 second charge.
Level 4 = Over 1 second to max charge.

Also, Level 4 Hayate = EX Hayate, so the character specific list for it is the same as the one used for EX Hayate.

Note: Charge times are approximations.

Wish I could find the concrete data on it (i.e. charge time by frames), but you can identify it by the increasing amount of damage, stun, and hitstun it does in training mode up to Level 4 (obviously knocks down).

Some more combos found off of various levels of Hayates:

• Lvl 3 MP Hayate/Lvl 2 FP Hayate FADC, s.LP, s.MP, s.MP xx Hayate/EX Oroshi
• Lvl 3 MP Hayate/Lvl 2 FP Hayate FADC, c.LP, s.LP, s.MP xx Hayate/EX Oroshi
• Lvl 3 FP Hayate FADC, s.MP, s.MP xx Hayate/EX Oroshi
• Lvl 4 Hayate FADC, f.LK (Midscreen)
• Lvl 4 Hayate, f.LK (Corner)
• Lvl 4 Hayate, LP Fukiage, EX Hayate (Corner, character specific)
• Lvl 4 Hayate, LP Fukiage, EX Tsurugi (Corner, character specific)
• CH Lvl 2 LP Hayate/Lvl 1 MP Hayate FADC, s.LP, s.MP, s.MP xx Hayate/EX Oroshi
• CH Lvl 2 LP Hayate/Lvl 1 MP Hayate FADC, c.LP, s.LP, s.MP xx Hayate/EX Oroshi
• CH Lvl 3 LP Hayate/Lvl 2 MP Hayate/Lvl 1 FP Hayate FADC, s.MP, s.MP xx Hayate/EX Oroshi
• CH Lvl 3 LP Hayate/Lvl 2 MP Hayate/Lvl 1 FP Hayate FADC, s.FP xx Hayate/EX Oroshi
• CH Lvl 3 LP Hayate/Lvl 2 MP Hayate/Lvl 1 FP Hayate FADC, s.FP xx Hayate Cancel, s.MP xx Hayate/EX Oroshi

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FFSS aka Fierce-Feint-Strong-Strong Character Specific Combos from theDUKE:

**- HC = hayate cancel

Here are the combos and values:
-hp, HC, s. mp, s. mp, EX Oroshi 272/520
-hp, HC, s. mp, s. mp, EX Hayate, lp Fukiage, EX Tsurugi 398/691 (corner only and character specific...refer to izanagi's chart)
-hp, HC, s. mp, s. mp, EX Hayate, lp Hayate 312/557 (corner only and character specific...refer to izanagi's chart)
-hp, HC, s. mp, s. mp, lp SCH 262/475
-hp, HC, s. mp, s. mp, mp Hayate 258/464
-hp, HC, s. mp, s. mp, s. lk xx lp Hayate 270/487
-hp, HC, s. mp, s. mp, s. lk xx lp SCH 279/496 

Combos listed above work on:

FFS, s. mp Character specifics

Works ON
Abel
Adon
Akuma
Blanka
Boxer
Cammy
Chun Li
Claw
Cody
Dee Jay
Dhalsim
Dictator
Dudley
El Fuerte
Fei Long
Gen
Gief
Gouken
Guile
Guy
Honda
Juri
Makoto
Rose
Rufus
Sagat
T Hawk

Doesnt work on
Dan
Hakan
Ibuki
Ken
Ryu
Sakura
Seth
Viper

s.MP > s.MP > s.MP specifics from Baseballfan1456 - work in progress

Started doing some testing today for this combo and found out which characters get hit by it…some of these characters were very finicky with it though…sometimes I could land the full combo, and other times the last hit would miss or be blocked…although that may just be my links being off…this really needs more testing.

For the ones I wrote down that don’t work, i’m thinking there may be a possibility that the combo can work after a j.HK/HP rather than a standalone combo

Also, this is not a final version, consider this a sort of rough draft for specifics until we get some better info

Newly added characters that it works on (as far as I know) will be bolded

Works:
Abel
Balrog (Boxer)
Blanka
Cammy
Chun-Li
Cody
Dhalsim
Dee Jay
Dudley
El Fuerte
Fei Long
Gouken
Guile
Guy
Juri
M. Bison (Dictator)
Makoto
Rose
Rufus
Sagat
T.Hawk
Vega (Claw)

Doesn’t work:
Adon
Akuma
C. Viper
Dan
E. Honda
Gen
Hakan
Ibuki
Ken
Ryu
Sakura
Seth
Zangief (I’m putting him here because although I could get the combo off, there was a very small chance of actually being able to do it to be considered efficient, but as I said, it may be due to my inability to link very well…could someone else test this?)

Also, if any of you can, try to test the ones I wrote down as not working, because there still might be a chance that it can, and I just wasn’t able to do it…

[Arcane_Arcane]

While I’m not totally opposed to the name of this thread, would you be willing to change it if there was some type of general consensus on something else? I remember some others came up with some great names a few weeks back…

[scythe_master]

why the hell is everyone concerned with what people name the threads…it’s to the point, appropriate, and lets people know what the thread’s about
on topic

I thought target combo was forward+light->medium?

edit: didn’t some one mention there was enough time to EX hayate after fukiage->tsurugi or maybe it was just air to air tsurugi?

[blackadde]

s.lk xx s.mk was a chain in 3s and i’m pretty sure it’s the same in super. forward + lk is a command normal step kick.

[tylerzd]

edit: didn’t some one mention there was enough time to EX hayate after fukiage->tsurugi or maybe it was just air to air tsurugi?

haha, that was me. Just a theory based on the Wong video. It looks like it might be possible if EX hayate is fast enough. Speaking of theory combos, i’d be happy to list them out in the second post sort of as a checklist for things to test on release. Post 'em here and i’ll add them.

As for the thread title name, no worries. If you guys want to change it to something else I’m all ears.

[Death_By_Nines]

Do we have any idea how much damage her moves do? (stun-wise I mean)

[Arcane_Arcane]

As for the thread title name, no worries. If you guys want to change it to something else I’m all ears.

I personally did not want to change it btw… I just know some others had ideas… though they might have jumped on some other bandwagon by now lol.

Its not important though.

Do we have any idea how much damage her moves do? (stun-wise I mean)

Her all her HP moves do hella stun, including/especially the command HP. This was the same in 3s.

We know she does good stun, but no hard data. Check out the Makoto vs. Cody video in the video thread. That explains alot.

[Ladon]

“Nothing beats Rindokan Karate!” The Makoto movelist/combo thread?

[scythe_master]

or we can keep it simple so that all of the new people coming into makoto will know exactly where to look “Combo and Movelist” and “Strategy corner” (keeping a separate thread so that each thread is easy to get right into and there’s not 300 pages to wade through for strats or combos. Don’t even need the “Makoto” part, people already know they’re in the makoto forum, they probably don’t need another reminder… or we could lump it into “Combos and Setups/Resets” since resets and set-ups are really just non-guaranteed combos that trade a little bit of risk for possibility of more damage or a stun with less damage reduction. Could even keep a separate “Move-list/Move Properties” thread completely separate as once you know all the properties you shouldn’t need to really look at that anymore, unless some one adds a new bit of information, which you will be informed of by the thread now being in bold

all in all there could be 4 separate threads
Video thread
Combos and Set-ups
Strategy Corner
Move-list and properties

unless we’d like to make a new thread for every different match-up (which will probably happen anyway with new people coming in and just making a new thread every time they have a problem with whomever)
Regardless, all of this talk about renaming the thread is just cluttering things up…I’d like to see everything shape up like the other thread, almost everyone is on topic there and there’s all sorts of really nice discussion going on

back ON the topic of possible/speculation combos
speculation combos
post EX hayate…can she still cr.RH or dash punch after? haven’t seen anything for/against
hayate->super->f.FP will the stun be worth it if it IS possible
on that same note, hayate->FADC->f.FP or anything really
hayate->super->fukiage?
Fierce->hayate feint->???

speculation resets
if f.RH leaves positive on block and line up properly I’d like to see something along hayate->super->f.RH…the theory is that they’d come out of stun right before the kick connects, leaving them needing to block low of course that would leave several options
f.RH
f.RH feint-> kara
f.RH feint->tsurugi
dash, cr.lk->hayate
dash, tsurugi
dash, kara
delayed hayate (or FP hayate if it’s slow enough)
walk up grab/kara
block
oroshi
and even MORE if f.RH is positive on block

[blackadde]

setups that trick people into karakusa are in all honesty are going to be a more important discussion than combos. her best combo with no meter will still probably be s.fp -> fierce hayate, and since karakusa leads to this anyways i think we should have a thread that just talks about tricky ways to land that grab. like, are there different ways to reset people in the air that lead to ambiguous dash under games where we can be on either side? what are her best tick setups? will blocked hayate FADC karakusa be a worthwhile risk against good players? can she still reset people in the corner after ex hayate with forward+lk? it’s definitely going to be fun just putting our heads together and figuring it all out.

[tylerzd]

I’ll keep this one as a more basic quick reference movelist and bnb combos listing.
**
-Ladon-** Excellent choice. Done!

scythe master- spec. combos added. Thanks for starting up the mixup thread.

[NinjaCW]

When the strategy thread IS made is it possible that all the “valuable” information is kept on the Original Post, so you don’t have to practically search through it all to find ONE answer. That will help with that problem and everyone won’t ask the same question a million times -_-

[Mr.Basara]

Whoever makes the strategy/ match up thread should take a look at the Ken match up thread. Though it didn’t flesh out as well as we would have hoped, it does have a nice template. Basically, Dr. Chaos made spots for each of the characters in spoiler tags. Then, he and another good Ken player would fill each one with match up info. It was right at the beginning of the thread, so you didn’t have to search for info. If anyone has anything to add to a specific match up, the person who created the thread can go in and update each of the match ups.

[NinjaCW]

Whoever makes the strategy/ match up thread should take a look at the Ken match up thread. Though it didn’t flesh out as well as we would have hoped, it does have a nice template. Basically, Dr. Chaos made spots for each of the characters in spoiler tags. Then, he and another good Ken player would fill each one with match up info. It was right at the beginning of the thread, so you didn’t have to search for info. If anyone has anything to add to a specific match up, the person who created the thread can go in and update each of the match ups.

Yea that’s what I meant -_-. . .I can’t remember 100% but I helped with either the Viper or Chun thread and went thru all the pages then PM’d the OP rofl.

[Arc-rail]

Naturally a matchup thread shouldn’t be made until the game is out, but even then I would be cautious. I notice a lot of character forums develop outdated first posts because the creator stopped updating it for various reasons, and then it sits like that or someone has to make a new one.

It’s understandable, because no one always gets what they expect out of a character/game and if someone doesn’t play the character anymore you can’t expect them to keep the thread updated.

I think it would be wise to wait perhaps a few weeks to a month or so before creating a consolidated matchup thread, so that people can get accustomed to the character, and learn what works and what doesn’t against all 35 characters. In the meantime I’d suggest making a temporary strategy/advice thread for the first few weeks of the game for people to discuss matchups, then when enough solid info is developed a new thread can be started. That also helps the common problem of early posts in the thread (after the first post) being vague due to coming right at the start of release, which often deters people from reading anything in the matchup thread besides the first post.

[NinjaCW]

Naturally a matchup thread shouldn’t be made until the game is out, but even then I would be cautious. I notice a lot of character forums develop outdated first posts because the creator stopped updating it for various reasons, and then it sits like that or someone has to make a new one.

It’s understandable, because no one always gets what they expect out of a character/game and if someone doesn’t play the character anymore you can’t expect them to keep the thread updated.

I think it would be wise to wait perhaps a few weeks to a month or so before creating a consolidated matchup thread, so that people can get accustomed to the character, and learn what works and what doesn’t against all 35 characters. In the meantime I’d suggest making a temporary strategy/advice thread for the first few weeks of the game for people to discuss matchups, then when enough solid info is developed a new thread can be started. That also helps the common problem of early posts in the thread (after the first post) being vague due to coming right at the start of release, which often deters people from reading anything in the matchup thread besides the first post.

Well I for one won’t be using anyone but that character bad match up or not. Just I’m “forgetful” so updating it might be a problem for me. But your idea is pretty much spot on but SOMEONE is going to make the thread regardless probably within the first few days hehe

[Mr.Basara]

I did the same thing for the Ken thread, NinjaCW. Then it all got scrapped anyway. At least they were halfway decent write ups for my use.

I don’t think we need to wait for a match up thread. Actually, I think as soon as match up specific stuff comes out (like things that are free karakusa grabs), it should be posted there. I understand the outdated info crap, but that’s only a problem if the person who created the thread doesn’t update it much…

Maybe we’ll have a dedicated person?

[Roy0]

Naturally a matchup thread shouldn’t be made until the game is out

…oops. Guess I jumped the gun there, huh?

[m1northreat]

ultra 2 follow ups that ive already seen from current vids are.
U2 >fukiage > EX Tsurugi
U2 > Tsurugi >EX Hayate
if tsurugi is anything like 3s then i would guess that tsurugi would have to be at most a Mk tsurugi due to RH knocking them down rather than tossing them into a juggle state.