lol.
OMG so I saw your sig and thought, I haven’t checked your youtube in a while. Then I see this: http://www.youtube.com/user/AxelKelly#p/u/2/XRsMee1KE-U
The HYPER dramatic up close on his pixelated face, fist holding the dog tags, and dude in the background getting hype too is TOO RAW. :looney::looney:
Where was that match from?
i was laughing so hard while making that video, you have no idea
it was just some random ggpo match
you should check out the favicon on super-turbo.net lol
That was awesome.
[media=youtube]uyKFKdAREcE[/media]
Bad ass meal time.
Chow down, motherfucker.
K, just for fun I thought I’d throw some thoughts out here.
Firstly, the northwest community has to understand something. Everything necessary to build a booming community is already here. All the tools necessary to create the most thriving community exists here. The problem, from a competitive standpoint is the lack of understanding with regard to how societies function.
This is a community. The fighting game scene, worldwide is more like a growing society and in order to make anything happen in it would be prudent to look at history. You can look at world history or better yet, look at the history of the fighting game community.
The beginnings of the American fighting game scene permanently resides in California. That is where every community across the country began. I’m not going to go into any kind of detail here. A lot of what I’m saying is encompassed in a book I’ll have completed in the coming months.
If you guys study the California scene and how it spread across the country, it’ll be easy to see the steps taken that all but ensure the heart of the community always beats in California.
In Washington, we have certain aspects of the scene fully functional. The whole point of hunger is getting out of context. The community here is solid. The hunger is lacking in a military sense. There are no rivalries, here, that elevate the competitive aspect of the community. It’s all buddy-buddy. That is a way to build a community and not a way to build an army for the community or a competitive group that exercises the full might of the community.
Simply take a look at California. It started with a bunch of elites that dominated their respective gaming environments. These were the “warriors.” Warriors that had yet to form a community. The warriors, being warriors, set out to find wars. That’s to say that we all sought out other elites with which to test and elevate our competitive prowess. This is how the first pyramid of the community was built. The elites, by way of looking for competition, eventually gathered into one place. That place was World’s Finest. This happened because of an organizer and a warrior. The military aspect and the governing aspect. Charles Franco ran(and manipulated) tournaments. Tomo was the warrior. Tomo, being the best, was a magnet for all other elites. The elites ended up forming the first organized war or the elites. So, all the warriors converged and battled. Different philosophies of competition came into play and all the players were brought to new heights. So, Tomo was the top of the first pyramid with Charles being the controlling factor using Tomo’s might. Then the elites, themselves, became the top of the pyramid, together. A “stronger” community was built.
What happened next? The same thing. The northern Cal warriors saw the top of the pyramid and wanted to be there too. So, another convergence was necessary. Charles was replaced with more players that organized tournaments. So, Norcal eventually had it’s own pyramid and most would say that was because of Thomas Osaki.
These 2 pyramids eventually collided a couple of times and the player/warrior class grew from the ashes of the sf2 scene. Then, the elites, after raising themselves yet again, formed into the top of the pyramid(best represented by the joining of power between Valle and Choi) along with the reigning organizers, the Cannons.
The east coast did the same thing(I’m being very broad here). Eddie Lee was the warrior that attracted warriors(Even Justin can be traced to this lineage) and folks like Todd Dwyer(ecc) were the organizers or governing class.
A bit earlier on, the same thing happened in Vegas and a while later, Texas and even Canada.
So, you can see the problem in this region. A lack of lustful warriors. The governing/organizing branch is fully functional. We have the likes of Brentobox, Zachdms and now Cole. We have a very full community but the warrior class/military branch is wimpy and complacent. Complacency is contagious. This is what Mickey is noticing. Mickey is a nice hybrid of warrior/governor type. However, clearly, the competitor within him is restless and with good reason.
All this, to put simply that, there is no conflict with which to inspire the most competitive. People are happy with the community of friends. That’s great. It’s an incredibly beautiful and utopian community. However, if you want to advance and inspire the next generation(and you do) you have to understand how to grow the other necessary part of a booming community that is firmly based in competition.
There needs to be some aholes here. There needs to be a reason or conflict to raise the level, competitively. There are so many great guys here. Who, then, is willing to be the dominant jerk-off of the community to piss people off into action? Also, is the buddy/buddy community strong hearted enough to allow this conflict? I’m not so sure. Most, I think, would sooner not hang out and get their asses handed to them by the aholes. We need aholes that want to kick sand in the faces of the weaker players and eventually, someone will get sick of the ahole’s smack talking and step their game up to shut the aholes up(provided there’s enough competitive backbone to fight back). Then, the aholes will come back with more fire and the volley, when completed, will elevate the game of everyone and also attract more warriors to the community instead of just organizers.
Basically, a few people with enough skill to back up their smack talk need to start crappin’ all over fools until they get pissed off enough to fight. That will begin the competitive volley that will elevate everyone, competitively speaking. The outcome will lead to better community performance in competitions like Evo which will, in turn, inspire and attract more to the community because the societal aspect is more complete. Don’t let anyone fool you. The backbone of the entire scene is the competitor and not the organizer. Without the 2 working together, the foundation crumbles.
I apologize if this doesn’t make sense. I’ve got a lot on my plate and just typed this out off the cuff. Any questions you have to clarify anything misunderstood, just direct toward me and I’ll find time to answer.
Apoc.
good read and interesting points, im still not so sure there needs to be drama between players to improve. but i suppose if you can manipulate a person into thinking or feeling that something must be done(like improving for w/e reason) it can help them, it just has to be done the right way which may differ from player to player. and if a person was in enough control of themselves to say the right things to another person it could stay friendly but make the lesser player think/dream, so in short your making me rethink my stance on said subject but i do believe there cant be negativity rooted in the person causing a rivalry. it has to be done for a good cause, not a guy who shit talks to make himself feel better deep down. but a genius that can see into a person and see what its gonna take to push them to better themselves.
Edit: also i will read that book.
Heh, sorry to put drama out there. I’m actually advocating a conflict of sorts and not drama. A reason for people to be more passionately at odds. Playing together, from experience, is not enough. People can play casually all night and barely grow because there isn’t fuel for the fire/passion. As long as the purpose is understood, there really is no drama even with the impression of it. Sadly, for some to get competitive, they have to be emotionally invested.
Apoc.
yeah that makes sense(i added to my post a bit from when you quoted it), like i said your points explained that in a new way for me and made me rethink what id consider “drama” and what most people probly mean when they touch on rivalries. thanks for making me think:tup:
I think Apoc has a point. The problem with the buddy style casuals is that people become lax for one reason or another. It’s been said before, but when something is on the line you push harder, whether its pride, or money, or something else. What happens when you start pushing? One of two things: The other dude pushes back, or he gets knocked over.
I agree with your idea of rivalry whole heartily. After coming back from NCR you could really see how the Northcal vs Socal rivalry really fueled the players to play all out. I mean quite honestly I’ve never seen Ricky Ortiz play so well in so many games, but people were saying that since it was a tournament repping “norcal” he had to play his best. I mean shoot, it is gigantic cali compared to small little Washington but even the South of Seattle vs North of Seattle vs East of Seattle idea might strike up a bit more competitiveness. Or even WA vs OR vs Canada, which seemed to work very well at NWM’s
that 5v5 at NWM was the first team tournament ive been hyped about personally, shit was awesome.
Portland VS salem
I think the NW needs opportunity and stability more than it needs rivalry and drive. Rivalry is something I think happens naturally when people are given more opportunity to play against each other. You build community and you also create drive because no one likes being on the bottom of the barrel every time they compete. I considered Sakura Guy at the HUB my rival because I played him EVERYDAY, and got tired of losing to dashback>mouth beam with Sentinel. Losing to him in general always sucks anyway. More opportunities for competition and a stable, convienent, adequate place to play is what I think the NW needs more than anything. Good things will evolve out of that.
Waste of time…
That’s why you do what you do, bro. You’re good at it. However, look back at Seattle’s history and you’ll see that Seattle has been stable for YEARS and yet, isn’t producing players on the National stage level that other areas have(and that has NOTHING to do with a lack of talent). You’re thinking that one part is more necessary than the other. You’re devaluing alternate perspectives. Every scene that has thrived competitively has serious rivalry. Organizing opportunity is part of it. Evo, itself, wouldn’t be what it is if not for the rivalries that created it. Without the top players, spawned by rivalry, there would be no competitiveness in tournaments. Other players would not have travelled if not for the support of elite players from here and Japan. This is why people travel. As an organizer, it would be wise for you to recognize this as it will build your tournament. This is all to say that, you’re fooling yourself by only appreciating what works for you without looking at what works for others and, more specifically, for the best players in the country. You’re excluding other valuable philosophies. It’s like an mma fighter who only strikes.
The last time Seattle was thriving on the national scene(from my limited knowledge) was years ago with Rattana. He put his money where his mouth was and got 3rd in a SoCal tourney. This inspired others. So, players realized they were better than they thought. This trickled into the Rowtron era.
Most recently, I’ll use Mandel as an example. Julien Beasley pissed him off and Mandel woke up to the nature of winning and, as a young buck, took out an old school ST player. Julien created a monster and Mandel’s game stepped up on the all around. It took Julien’s arrogance to step Mandel’s game up.
Thanks to you, we have NWM and Frank has the Tournament Wars and Cole was running some SF4. These ARE opportunities. Opportunities don’t directly translate into better competitors. Everyone is different. A failed opportunity can have a positive or negative reaction just as a successful opportunity can have both. It’s no direct formula into competitive greatness.
The opportunity is there and the stability is there. The passion in competition is the main factor that isn’t being nurtured to make the Northwest a powerhouse. There is no iron sharpening iron. It’s a lot of good friends giving eachother a backrub. Without the passion behind the competition, it’s a lot of good friends getting together. That’s awesome! Don’t get me wrong. In some ways, it’s ideal, imo. However, there are talented and competition oriented players that have no war to fight.
Clearly, events and a large group of players isn’t enough.
Without rivalry and drive, there is no opportunity in competition. Money can organize a tournament; competitive players are what make it great. You need both. This is why California is still the heart of the competitive scene. It has the most competitive players and the best organizers were intelligent enough to harness that. Cali has both. Other areas have had one or the other. When you have both, that’s when everyone wins. There is the greatest opportunity in this region and Mickey has hit upon the missing factor. The players are here, the organizers are here and the passion is… … … Imagine if Valle, Choi, Wong, Ortiz (insert 20 other great players here) all lived here. The Northwest Majors would attract players from much farther as well as more fierce competition. This is why people are coming back from Cali feeling the way that they do. This is why Rattana was attracted to Cali in the first place.
You may not see what I’m saying, now. Give it a few years or do a bit of history on the entire scene. You will see the value of what’s being given. If you allow competition to only exist as a gathering instead of a mental battlefield, the Northwest will continue to have the same results that’s bugging the competitively minded players.
Then again, I could be full of crap. That’s up to you to decide:)
For you, personally, I’d say you’ve done an incredible amount for the scene here. Do what works for you. However, I’d take a look at the best players out there and look at the heat of the competitions they’ve been involved in. Without that heat, they wouldn’t be as hot as they are:)
Apoc.
Treat people like shit and you will find yourself with nowhere to play, I think that’s the big deal.
Why don’t you just ask them?
Hey Zach/Pat/Dugg/Emanuel, if someone treated you like shit how inclined would you be to have them in your HOME?
I mean, I guess you could be shitty to the people who don’t have open houses if you want to be hella shady.
Apoc isn’t saying that we need to beef. Beefing is completely different than rivalry. He’s saying something more along the lines of friendly competitive rivalry between groups within a scene not members of the scene starting drama.
On topic, I was watching the LA riots stream over the weekend, and Gootecks was talking about a speech that Valle gave a bunch of the Socal guys earlier in the week. He said that they were encountering a lot of the same issues that people in this thread are describing, that everyone wanted to be friends instead of competitors, and that was why socal was getting beat up on in recent tournaments. The phrase that stuck out the most was “you don’t have to hate the other player, but you should hate the fact that you lost”.
I don’t think a rivalry has to be rooted in hate for another person. However, I think that you should walk away from a loss thinking about why you last to this person, and what you can do to improve so that you win the next time you play. One thing I’ve been trying to do more recently is really think about the tournament matches that I lose. This motivates me to work harder so that the next itme I play that person, I don’t make the same mistakes.
Not… really. Seattle is not what I’d call ‘stable’ as a scene.