3s is random if u play that way. Unfortunately, unlike real sf games (which sf3 is NOT and never has been), the whole risk/reward thing is fucked, and if u DO play safe and intelligently, u can still lose (and quite easily i may add) to some random bullshit. 3S is a fun game, but once u start playing seriously, it becomes seriously useless and boooooring. Any sf game > 3s at this point imo. It started good, and ppl praised it for balance and such, and then they realized the 3 headed monster it truly was (read: Yun, Chun, Ken). Now they live their lives in denial and keep telling themselves that ppl hate on it cause they don’t “get” 3S.
ps. parrying is the single dumbest thing Capcom ever put in one of their games. It made an otherwise solid game random, something SF NEVER was before.
Oh yeah I had a good example of what 3S is. Imagine you’re watching a Pride fight or something. You got Fedor on some random guy that has heavy hands. Fedor is in control on the ground, cause he got there by SKILL. Now, the random dude “parries” and gets a counter punch on Fedor, surprising him, and KO’ing him. That’s 3S. In all other SF games before it, you had to WORK to get out of a shitty situation, and if you GUESSED? 9/10 times you got raped HARD for it. In 3S, if your character has something punishing, going for a parry is a lot of times more reward for less risk than actually trying to outskill your opponent could ever give. 3s = guessing. Look at Urien, without parries he couldn’t get something decent going if his life depended on it. Dudley…only reason he is feared is cause he has bullshit 50/50 wakeup game…GUESSING. Yun? You guess between bullshit 1 frame c. short, or overhead, or command grab. GUESSING. Man, whoever disagrees that guessing is a huge part of 3S is retarded or in massive denial.
I used to love 3s btw. Used to be my favorite game by far. Oh yeah, and someone should run a no parry 3S tourney. Although i HATED the idea of changing shit like faggot ass PC gamers when they got something they can’t deal with, I think no parry 3s would make the game a LOT better and way more solid. You would actually have to, you know. LEARN your fucking move properties, and teach you to RESPECT when someone is owning you and keeping you in the corner. Not parry down and pray. Fuck that weak shit.
Cause there will always be a top. Even in horrid games like CVS1, there was a consistent top. Not to say CVS1 > 3s, but just cause a game has a huge amount of randomness, doesn’t mean the top players will change from day to day. As long as there are players who love the game, and are intelligent enough to abuse the way the game is (read, abusing the randomness in 3S), those players will always come out on top. Sadly, that’s the way humans are when it comes to anything competitive. We continuously seek out the cheapest shit, and for weeks or months or years at a time, we will whore that cheap shit as best as we can to come out on top. Unfortunately for 3S, I don’t think the game will progress past Yun/Chun/Ken.
I don’t think you can make a real critique of 3S based on its tiering. The low tier characters don’t have many good matchups, and while it’s difficult to beat the top tier, for the most part it’s not prohibitively so. It’s not the most balanced game, but it’s balanced pretty well.
And even in poker, the same people show up in the final rounds all the time. 3S has less randomness than poker, so it shouldn’t be any surprise that the same people do well. It’s still a fairly strategic game, so those who are good at strategy and, like in poker, can read other people and guess well based on those readings, will do well. The problem is that there’s more guessing and less strategy than in HF and ST.
You’re psychic UltraDavid…I was about to mention poker. I hate that fucking game for the same reason…it’s random. I hate all random games. Anything with a dice is random, some more than others. Sometimes there is a fine balance between strategy and guessing, but VERY few games get that perfect mix where it doesn’t hinder your ability to respect top players. One of the few games that IMO has a near perfect balance of skill/luck is Backgammon. That game is fucking top-tier. It’s the oldest game in existence, and although you have to roll a dice, it’s your moves that make you or break you. You could make a similar argument for poker or 3S i guess, but the truth of the matter is that in these games, before the other players get an equal amount of luck, someone has already won. In backgammon, winning is slow and strategic, so before the game is over, both players had their fair chances at abusing top tier dice rolls.
You know Geese, getting posts of that magnitude across to people usually requires something called credibility, a concept you don’t exactly have in spades. :looney:
Moving on, I don’t really see the problem, some people prefer the active mixup/mind game style of 3S, others like the deeply-rooted strategy of ST. Saying that one game is objectively bad/worse just because someone doesn’t like it is totally inaccurate. Both games require skill in their own way. Notice how Daigo can play both games very effectively… I suppose that means he doesn’t start randomly guessing in 3S? He understands that strategy is a different thing in either game. Yes, 3S has guessing (probably more than other SFs) but part of becoming better is realizing the risk of everything you do and minimizing unnecessary guesswork as much as you can.
Yeah…there’s still way too many strategic aspects to 3S to call it a completely random roll of the dice fighter. If anything the parrying or randomness is part of what makes the game hype at high level play where people understand that although there are clear tiers and strategies…if someone is aware of what is going to happen to them and can figure a way to utilize the parry at the right moment…things can suddenly change. Fights in 3S aren’t quite the “yeah…I know where this fight is going” matches that are more common in other fighters.
Essentially parries bring a sense of hope/hype to the game that makes it entertaining to watch and for a lot of people…more fun to play. There is clear randomness but obviously higher level players use that ace trick to their strategy to further augment their game and learn ways to defend against it. Bringing more strategy to the game that really can’t even be explained through strategies. Just things you develop over time and competitive play.
We played for 4 straight years without tech throws, so what’s the point? Throwing was strong in the older games I will say that, tick throws where strong, however it wasn’t the end all, be all, tatic.
It was damn hard to get throws in characters, especially the characters who spaced well. However I will say emphasize this again, throws where never random in OGSF2, quit getting that notion and that idea. Also, that’s how Sagat was and will always be in OGSF2 he’s a dominant spacing/zoning character(Shooting Tigers is a hell of alot harder than it looks).
Again, the notion of, you have to learn, adapt, and overcome it there was no other way around it, that’s why OGSF2 to me will always be better. I still like 3S too though.
sagat isn’t that great in HF, for the record, hes good, but I wouldn’t say he was top, just under maybe though.
3s has random stuff more often than other sfs, but it really isn’t THAT random. at some point the best players balance out the random shit, and to say 3s is boring at a high level is straight up wrong.
It’s boring cause you can’t tell what the fuck is going on. Elitists like to think that everything their heroes are doing is for a reason, but that’s simply not true. High level 3s has so much randomness, that it’s impossible to tell why [insert top player] did this or that or whatever. In CVS2, or OG SF2, you can analyze a match concretely, and say “Yeah, that guy knows what’s up” cause each strategy has a counter strategy, each situation is recognizable, etc. But in 3S, you look at some players and you see em eat low hits without blocking, or you see em bust out random shit, or you see em stand infront of someone, just waiting for a low parry. It’s fucking retarded. SF has always been concrete and strategic. 3S is not.
Oh yeah, I forgot building meter. 3S basically invented the homosexual practice of staying on your side of the screen, whiffing low strongs/s. fierces/s. rh WHATEVER and then abusing [insert broken super] til the cows come home.
thats straight up not true lol. maybe your understanding of the game is rudimentary, but honestly, if you can’t even tell what’s going on in a 3s match, you have no right to criticize it.
For someone who supports OG gamepaly you’re all of a sudden talking like you’ve never seen a high level ST match. You may not be able to throw normals but you can definitely Blanka hop to the back of the screen or hurricane kick all over the place like an idiot. Some characters get away with the meter building thing (Guile, Sagat etc). since their meter building is part of their offensive strategy any ways. :lol:
I would say the real reason people throw around normals at the start of the match in 3S is simply because it actually gains enough bar per normal to be worth doing. This happens in high level CVS2 play as well. It forces people to stay away enough from each other to warrant getting hit while they are both charging bar at the same time to keep up with each other. Of course there’s ways around this tactic but you act like 3S is the only game it’s used in and it’s some horrible act of Satan. If normals gained you bar in ST you’d do the same damned thing.
As far as the whole 3S thing…I’m not even gonna get into that discussion anymore (after the next paragraph, LOL) cuz that’s like discussing who’s better between the green and the white power ranger. People come from different eras of gaming and some people will see the strategy behind the randomness in 3S and some won’t.
Hell I don’t care if 3S is the most random game in existance. Just like people don’t really give a shit that MVC2 is probably the most broken piece of shit anyone plays seriously. It’s those aspects behind the game that make them what they are and well…to be honest more people play those games than the old school stuff in the US these days so it may not be right but it definitely ain’t wrong either.
no, im not saying there aren’t elements of randomness in 3s, there most definitely are, but there are also skillful elements that reduce randomness. us players got thrashed for the most part at sbo, to a ken player, so I really don’t see how it’s THAT random. Justin/issei win every tourney on the ec, pyro/amir/ricky win like every w/c tourney. straight up the game isnt completely random. the better you are the less random it is.
Yeah…the more you understand the game and the way people play the less random it becomes. Being able to anticipate the way your opponent is thinking is key to success. At first glance you’ll just see people getting hit for no reason but when you understand the thought process used to get them to get hit by those moves you then understand the strategy behind the randomness.
Take for example the KSK ranbats. Kokujin hit a Ryu player with 2 f+HK’s from Dudley while the Ryu player was standing. This happened in a match vs. Ruu (Ryu player) in one of the KSK ranbats. Now in any other SF game getting hit twice by an overhead move while you are standing seems almost nuts. Yet…the game was close and Kokujin definitely understood that he was at the right distance where blocking low would cause him to get owned by f+HK to SA3. The Ryu player then decided to try and weigh his options obviously by going for a parry to punish the f+HK.
The problem was with all that was weighed on him this worked to his disadvantaged and got hit with the move 2 times to win while he was standing up right. According to old school play this is purely just nerves getting the best of you but in a serious 3S fight there are more options to weigh in and being able to come up with a strategy like that on the fly can mean the difference. It’s understanding the way your opponent thinks and I think that’s what makes 3S truly fun at high level even if some like to refer to it as pure gambling.