XvsSF thread

Yea man, I figured it was one of the easier, cheesier infinites, cuz the timing and set up is retardedly simple.

I have a noob question for you Prozac…how the fuck do you do his bulldog move in this game?? Do you actually have to press fp AND rk?

I remember some dude years ago who always used to catch me with running grab XX MOB. Fucking ridiculous damage. i’m so use to Marvel 2 Cyc man…

The controls are a bit stiff, so DP’s are ocassionally a pain to pull off, but i’ll try that other inf next time i’m on campus.

Cyc= :badboy:

forawrd, forward HP+HK

Just like I said dude… Toward, Toward + Fierce + Roundhouse. It’s a Dash motion and Team Change motion in one. All you have to do is make sure the second ‘Toward’, and the HP+HK, happen at the same time.

Sim Info -

Recent interest in Dhalsim, he’s the shiz. Reasons why Dhalsim kicks ass - Great rushdown, Great keepaway, Great super, insane throw priority. Reasons why Dhalsim sucks - Teleport glitch, crappier than crappy launcher, so his combo options are limited, unless you have sick execution.(w00t. :wink: )

Rushdown - Two ways to go. One, is c.roundhouse. His c.roundhouse is sick. A c.roundhouse should mean a free Inferno for you(c.roundhouse, c.short(OTG) xx Inferno), and you can always cancel into Jab FB for safety, but you usually won’t need to, because the recovery is pretty low. Plus, the range is so ridiculous, that it works wonders with his Keepaway.

The other way, is his Drills. There are actually two ways to use his drills to rushdown… One, is to just jump and do his LK drill as fast as possible(That means you gotta practice an Up, Down motion, to Jump and then Drill. The faster you are the better.) The other way to Drill-Rushdown, is to jump at them with a j.jab or j.short, and then cancel THAT into a drill(j.dwn.forward, of course). j.jab is pretty much the one you want to learn, because it’s what makes Sim something to be afraid of up close. His j.jab hits almost straight down, so it’ll hit crouching/small enemies(j.short gets screwed a lot if they just crouch, or if they’re cammy/wolv sluts), and it’ll cover the area directly in front of him, whereas j.short, and even his LK drill, won’t.

With this in mind… If you land a j.dwn.short, you want to follow up with something like j.forward -> j.roundhouse /, and if you land a j.jab, you want to follow up with something like j.dwn.forward -> j.fierce(Far) /

Both of his Drill-Rushdown options give dhal lots of combo options. In fact, they can both be looped. [ /\ j.dwn.short -> j.forward -> j.roundhouse / ] loops, as long as you’re quick on the LK Drills. [ /\ j.jab -> j.dwn.forward -> j.dwn.fierce / ] loops, but you have to be careful with the timing, or else you’ll get pushed back too far.

After you land, you can go for something simple like c.short xx Inferno(Or s.fierce xx Inferno, if you’ve got the time), or you can combo into his launcher, if they’re in the corner. It takes pretty tight timing to combo into his launcher, and I’d suggest using the [ /\ j.dwn.short -> j.forward -> j.roundhouse / ] setup, but in any case, after that, dash and do d.s.jab, s.strong. Do the jab as late as possible for it to combo, and then just wait until it’s over and do the s.strong ASAP. It helps if you hold Towards while doing it, so if the s.strong comes out a couple frames late(There’s a little leeway), those frames won’t be wasted, they’ll be used walking closer to them, just in case you were too far away. There is ‘tons’ of shit dhal can do for air combos. Tons, including two infinites, and all sorts of flashy combos, and a ridiculously easy FSD setup, but I’ll let you figure that shit out. A lot of it is probably on GameFAQs, ala Chen.

Inferno - Overall, you’re better off sticking with Inferno. It’s a ridiculously good super. High damage, fast activation, and combos off of just about anything. It’s almost as good as Psycho Crusher, except where Bison’s weak ensemble can’t make use of his good super, Sim can. Just, try not to get it blocked at point blank range. If they’re in the air, and they block it, there are ways to manipulate the super so that they get pushed away, and don’t land right next to you. However, more interesting, are the ways that Dhalsim can do Inferno x 2, and, Inferno x 3, in one combo. I’ll tell you how.

The ideal setup is after an OTG. Do something like c.roundhouse, c.short(OTG, Tiny ass pause) xx Inferno. You’ll see that, as the super connects, they’ll be a little bit away from you, and about a foot off the floor. Perfect positioning. The key, is to nudge the super Downwards at the right time, so that they stop getting hit by it, bounce a little, fall, and then land on the last hit much later than they ussually would. That gives you the extra second or so you need to OTG them after the super, into another inferno. If you’re both already in the corner, it’s a lot easier, though. Instead of nudging the super down just a little, just swerve it all the way down, so that they bounce up out of it, land, and then get OTGd by the last hit. Then, hit them with c.roundhouse or something during their OTG Bounce, into another inferno, etc. This counts as an nOTG, by the way, so you can do it over and over again, and they can’t roll it. Another method, a little more experimental, is something I’ve been working on. You can actually ‘lift them up’ while hitting them with the super. As they’re getting hit by the super, they’re frozen in place. When they stop getting hit by it, they bounce up a little and then fall down. So, if you swerve the super up, just enough so that they stop getting hit by it, they’ll bounce right back up into the flame. I find it works best if you lift the super a little, and then just mash Up/Down rapidly. If you do it right, and they’re far enough away(This doesn’t work unless they’re reasonably far), than it’ll pick them up, and it’ll make it a lot easier to OTG them after the super, or nOTG them with it, or whatever. The higher they are, the easier his inferno links are.

How is all this inferno shit gonna be any use if Sim doesn’t have meter? How does Sim get meter…

Keepaway - Keepaway with Dhal is simple, but effective. s.roundhouse and j.roundhouse are key, of course, and s.roundhouse xx Jab FB is one of his best keepaway techs. If they’re on the ground, just do that. If they’re jumping, you can dash back and do that, or you can just jump with j.roundhouse… Or you can jump with j.strong -> j.roundhouse(Good for if they’re level with you). c.roundhouse is actually an effective keepaway tactic for him too, as long as you cancel out of it, because it makes them much more reluctant to dash in, and it gives you room to dash back for his s.roundhouse, etc etc. The only two specials worthy of note, really, are his QCF+Jab and his HCB+Short(The quickest version of his Diagonal-Upwards Yoga Flame). You can OTG after his HCB+Kick into inferno, but it’s pretty rollable, so try not to get mixed up. s.forward is another normal worthy of note, because it’s basically just a faster, weaker s.roundhouse. It’s better when you’re a little closer, and just looking for something to get them to block, xx Jab FB. Keeps them grounded, and bugs them.

Throws - Sim’s throw priority is ‘really, really good’. He throws people for free all day if they get too close. His throws aren’t always instant death, like Magneto’s, and he can’t do much to follow up a midscreen throw… But they’re still deadly. There are basically two throws you want. One, is his normal B/T+Roundhouse throw(Not the crouching version). You can throw them in either direction, if it’s in the corner, you can follow it up with a s.strong launch(What? Free sim air combos? =D ), and, if it’s in the corner, you can follow it up with a s.jab -> Bounce throw. The other throw, is his B/T+Strong throw(Yoga noogie, w00t w00t). Unfortunately, this throw is one directional, it throws them towards the side they were standing on them when you grabbed them. But, It’s probably the most damaging throw in the game(Not even counting the fact that it’s mashable =o ), and it sends them pretty high(High enough to follow it up with his QCF+KK super, in the corner.) And, of course, you can launch after it. So, you could end up with a stupid combo like this… -

Sim’s back to the corner: Roundhouse Throw(Into the corner), s.jab, Strong Throw(Into the corner), QCF+KK, for ridiculously stupid amounts of damage, and all easy peasy. :wink:

That scenario is very common, too. When you piss people off with his keepaway, it’ll be easy to bait them into rushing you, just jumping back into the corner, landing, and throwing them. Or, some other form of baiting them like that.

In any case, Dhalsim’s just a sick character because he’s so good at so many distances. Point blank(Throws), Very Close(j.jab/slide rushdown), and far away(Keepaway).

There’s lots of other combo tricks and tips for him, but I’m working on some material with him for vids and shiz, so that’s just up my sleeve for now.

I’m a newer XvsSF player and I like Charlie’s style. But as for a partner, I haven’t found a steady team.

Are some matchups better or more effective than others?

If so, who would be an ideal partner for Charlie?

Gambit is an effective partner for Charlie. Charlie kinda has a problem with Storm(It’s not a total bloodbath, because Charlie’s damn good, but it’s one of his worse matchups), and Gambit is the ideal storm counter.

I’ve always really liked playing Charlie/Shotos, because shoto rushdown is a nice compliment to his playstyle. Charlie/Ken is one of my favorite teams, though. Ken has a very aggressive ground-based playstyle(ShoRyuReppa rushdown, c.jab/Jab DP priority, Wave Dash throws), while Charlie has an aggressive air-based playstyle(Razor Kick Mixup and Rushdown). Plus, Charlie/Ken is arguably the best Team Super in the game. It has the most chip damage of any Team Super, does very nice combo damage, and it’s impossible to counter. Essentially, in a Charlie/Ken TS, both Charlie and Ken are doing the same thing. Drilling them in the face and then lifting up in the air. So it doesn’t matter who you start the super with. Either way, the person who started it, will be in front. So, when the super is over, and they both fall down, if your opponent so much as throws a jab, he’s screwing himself over. Why? The jab hits the person who started the TS. Immediately, that character flies away, and your other character instantly recovers, and you can do whatever you want while your opponent is stuck in attack animation. Throwing them is ussually the easiest option. With Charlie, that means an instant 100% combo. Because of that, Starting the TS with Ken, for Chip Damage, as part of his aggressive ground rushdown(/\ j.strong xx Roundhouse hurricane / Team Super is the best way to do it, as long as you do the team super ASAP, otherwise you’ll get thrown), was one of my favorite things.

Dhalsim is another good option. His keepaway is an effective compliment.

Depends on who you like to use. ‘Most’ characters can be an effective compliment to Charlie, depending on how you play them. Wolv can be a good battery for Charlie’s power burning, Storm can be effective runaway + Battery as Charlie’s lockdown backup… However, if you really want to win, I’d probably suggest going with Gambit, if only because Gambit is Top-Tier Edge.

is it possible to roll out of mag’s slide into tri jump rh into w/e or charlie’s sweep xxx super jump cancel razor kick rush down?

it just seems to me that if it is possible (which it very well should be) that someone who could do it reliably would seriously hamper a huge part of someone’s rush down tactics.

yep u can roll out of both

It is, yes. But Charlie’s c.roundhouse OTGs are a part of his mixup, which hinges on making them block the wrong way in the first place, so if they ‘do’ roll, they’ll be doing the wrong Quarter Circle motion, and, rolling nowhere. Plus, 99.9% of XvsSF players out there have never seen a Charlie good enough to do c.roundhouse XX SJ OTG launches, so they won’t expect that they ‘need’ to roll. But, again, that doesn’t really matter, because it’s a mixup technique, and secondary to his main gameplan of lockdown.

With magneto, it’s much more of a problem. He hinges on his ability to land his combos, and ‘tons’ of magnetos use his c.roundhouse OTG setups, and does a lot more hi/low mixup than Back/forward mixup, so it’s practically second nature to roll his c.roundhouse. That’s why, like I said, it’s important to learn how to start combos with s.roundhouse, if you really want to learn Mag.

Does any of the stuff in here relate to version 3.0? Saturn?

Also, how do you do nashes reverse flash kick? Arial one?

The motion is Up to Towards, Kick, while in the air.

And, Version 3.0 is pretty much Saturn. Version 3.0 didn’t really change much as far as tactics go, it changed Combos. The only person it really screwed over for tactics is Dhalsim, who can’t do drills until the peak of his jump.

V3.0/Saturn took away a few infs, like Cyc’s basic inf, Jugg’s basic inf

Hey,

I want to know what you guys think are the tiers for this game.

-XvDF

I don’t suppose anyone played Jugg seriously? I used to like spamming with the j.fierce, but it got old pretty fast, and ckye/wolverine usually didn’t let me practice much… well, practise watching my character get infinited, more or less.

I’m, guessing Jugg is pretty low tier. :stuck_out_tongue:

Juggs is pretty good but has some really bad match ups. I don’t think he’s that low tier. But my tier perception may be a bit skewed since most of the players at my arcade are good and the characters are diverse.

I think that the peeps at top are Storm, Cyke, Mags, Gambit.

Hard for me to think of anyone to call low tier in this game.

-V

ughh?? u mention gambit, and not even wolverine and chunli ? hahaha, imo top tier is storm, mag, wolv, cyc, sabertooth and chunli.
bottom tier would be bison and juggz.
but yeah dont worry to much about tiers in this game cuz every single character can compete except Bison + juggs imo,hell even they can compete but they will just have a harder time, esp juggernaut, i think hes the worst character of all

…?

Known top tier is Cyc/Storm/Chun/Gambit. That’s it. “I” would add Charlie to that list, but, it’s a tiny bit of a stretch.

Storm can do everything Mag can do, 2 x better, and then some(Omg, look, Storm can runaway too. xD). A lot of people think Mag and Storm are kind of equal, but once you get into the higher levels, where Storm can do seriously unblockable ad.short shiz, and combo anything(Even her fuggin Variable Counter. No fucking joke.) into her Inf, it just isn’t even. Wolve can’t do jack against airborne opponents. Sabre can’t do jack against airborne opponents with good priority. Try doing a Good Sabre vs a Good Ryu. It’s a 4/1 matchup, easy. Storm is worse, and Gambit and Chun can both AA him. Sabre is only good if your opponent can’t pushblock intelligently.

There isn’t really any ‘Low tier’. XvsSF is more balanced than most games(Such as MvC2), and those 4 top tier have a slight edge, but they’re no God Tier.

Bison is pretty damn low on the list, though, but, even he can mess some shit up. Nuts throw priority, really good normals, and he’s got the best friggin super in the game.

Jugg has a few really ugly matchups(Like storm, Ugh), but he’s definitely not the worst character in the game though. Don’t whore j.fierce, though, that’s n00by. If you’re going to whore a jumping move. j.forward is a lot better choice. Much better range, and good priority, plus it stops people from really, really, ‘really’ easy AAs, which kill a j.fierce jugg whore. You want to learn s./c./s.twd.fierce xx HCB+K, because a Fierce cancelled into his throw makes for a ‘sick’ poke. d.s.fierce and s.twd.fierce are both good pokes( d.s.fierce xx Throw is godly. It’s practically lockdown. xD), c.fierce is good Anti Air, as long as you cancel their delay. For competition, just learn his inf, and things like Throw -> Inf, etc. Learn how to use his Headcrush. It can go through(I.E., not even get hit by it) almost anything if you do it late enough(Hypergravs, Projectiles, etc), and that same priority lets him counter lots of shit with it. Plus, combo all your lucky ground pokes(c.short, woot!) into it, etc. For a flashy combo, Fierce Throw, Jab Juggernaut Punch, c.short xx Headcrush works really well in the corner, and does big damage.

Prozac,

With Magneto’s triangle jump, and crazy MvC2 playstyle. I would say he’s close to top tier. Then add his nugget throw into inf, or inf for that matter, which he can do anywhere on screen, I’d say he’s top.

I dunno, I think Charlie being top tier is pushing it. I mean, prolly in good hands, like you or Sabre, he can compete, but I wouldn’t say he’s top.

Too bad I don’t have Kaillera so we can’t play :sad:

You ever get to make it out to Evo?

-V

auhh??? gambit is not tier, he is nowhere near it, from all the vids ive seen of u vsing other ppl and US match vids. but u and the ppl u play against from what ive seen the wolv players that u play aginst or when u use him urself, u dont use infinites which is pretty stupid, and yeah if you dont use infinites how do u expect wolv to be top tier then, ofcourse he aint, but if u play the game how its meant to be played wolverine with infinite is very dangerous .in reality ppl use them , and with wolverines awesome rush down, he needs to just hit u 1 time from basicaly anywhere on the screen, and thats the end of ur character, how can u possibley say that gambit can be deadly?
yeah gambit has an infinite but it sure aint as effective as wolverines.
Oh and if Juggernaughts not bottom tier, than tell me who can possibley be worse.
go ahead and flame me i dont really care, but gambit is no way near top tier

That’s why I said it’s a stretch, Dogface. There are two things that determine if a character is top tier… It’s ‘potential’, and it’s ‘difficulty’. Charlie has nuts potential, but he’s extremely difficult/complex to use well. Characters like Cyc and Chun are numbingly simple, and pretty easy.

And, ToXY, I don’t want to flame. Rather, just explain why those four are Top in XvsSF. Top tier is determined by who wins tournies. That’s it. And, by THAT definition, Gambit is top tier. You can put all the ifs, ands, and buts that you want into it, but, the fact is, at least on US Soil, Gambit wins. Why?

His FS inf is one of the easiest in the game, and it works on everybody but Cammy/Chun, which are really hard to set up on, but even then, his Card inf is super easy on them… His Jab Cajun Slash is one of the best specials in the game. His cards are the best air projectile in the game. His j.fierce has ridiculous priority. His c.fierce has ridiculous priority. His s.forward and j.roundhouse are ridiculously good normals.

He’s ‘solid’, and VERY good. But, again, the REASON he is top tier, is because he ‘can’ deal with the other Top Tier characters. He has the tools to take down Storm, and he’s pretty even with Cyc/Chun.

Wolv is not. His mixup is weak. The ONLY trick he has up his sleeve, is the ability to wiff a j.fierce off of a j.dwn.forward, and hit them with a c.short before they realize you landed. Other than that, you can block wolv all day, because he has no air dash, and his divekick takes a second to come out, so people can block high in response to it. Second, ASIDE from his infinite, his combos are weak. Midscreen, he has serious problems. I’ve seen a japanese player that can reliably Midscreen s.roundhouse into j.roundhouse OTG juggle, into inf, but that’s one player, and he’s not on US soil, so until people start doing that in tourneys(Which they won’t, because XSF is dead. 99.9% can’t even do his c.roundhouse SJ cancel into midscreen juggle inf.), Wolv remains a lost cause, not because he’s a really crappy character, but because Storm/Chun/Gambit/Cyc can ALL kick his ass, just by jumping. He gets rocked by the whole top tier, because the whole top tier can play runaway, which he can’t deal with. He’s simply a rushdown character without the proper mixup tools. The only reliable method he has for rushdown is to mix in throws. But, Gasp!, wolv’s throws don’t lead to anything. I can understand how watching vids of him online would confuse you though. Nobody can block anything online. The combos I land online just plain don’t work offline. You’d never get that c.short in. I might, because I have a few tricks up ‘my’ sleeve, but if another player just as good as me came along, I’d be right back to square one, getting owned by storm j.fierces all day. It’s not about ‘me’ choosing not to use infinites. It doesn’t matter ‘what’ shit he has, because you’ll never land it. Gambit/Chun would both still be top tier even if they didn’t have infinites. Cyc/Storm are both way better at landing their infinites than Wolv is.

And, I don’t know why you think Jugg is so bad. You need to see a good Jugg player, that’s all. s.fierce xx HCB+K is beastly. Headcrush is beastly. j.forward is beastly. I went over this. Like I said, XvsSF doesn’t have a ‘worst character’. There’s ‘Top Tier’, and, ‘The Rest’. People say Bison sucks. His j.fierce beats so much shit that it’ll make your head spin. People say Akuma sucks. His retarded LK Ground Hurricane does 33% damage, he has sick ground control, ridiculous Raging Demon setups, and he can Inf you from anywhere(Yes, in V2, Even though it’s a hard setup.)

But, about the Mag as top tier thing, it all comes down to Mag vs Storm. That’s the catch you’ll see over and over again, and it’s why Mag doesn’t make the cut to top tier. Mag has one thing on storm. His Throw -> Inf. Storm has three things on Mag. Runaway, Battery, and Counter -> Inf. I don’t know if I explained it correctly to you people… But… Storm can come in through a COUNTER(I.E., you block a move, hit Back to Down+HP+HK, Storm comes in and does L.Attack), and go from THAT, into an Infinite. ‘ANY’ hit she lands, she can chain into Lightning Attack, and inf. And guess what… It’s easy. Mag’s midscreen infinite capabilities are not. They’re very character dependent. Storms isn’t. It works on Cammy, and it works on Jugg, just the same. Storm has better Air Dash mixup than Mag. Mag has to rely on his s.roundhouse, into complicated ROM AD setups, because his launcher sucks. Storm can just chain into her launcher, into Air Combo, into L.Attack. Or just chain into c.strong, into L.Attack. Mess up? It gets blocked? L.Attack back and switch over to runaway. Mag doesn’t even have runaway. Mag doesn’t win the amount of tournaments that Storm/Chun/Cyc/Gambit do. Alot of people use Mag in XvsSF because of all his MvC2 hype… Without understanding that Mag is almost the same in MvC2… While everybody else got seriously toned down from XSF.

And, and dogface, nah, I didn’t get to. I was gonna drive out with like, 3 other people, but they all bailed. It’s tough shit to get there from MA when you’re broke. =/

Edit: Oh, I forgot. There’s another reason that top tier is top tier. Nobody but Me + A handful know it, but, hell, I guess you’ll just have to trust me. Or, wait for SnH2 and see for yourself.

Sorry I didn’t make my self clear enough. Does the stuff in this thread work on the saturn? I take it this is all on v 2.0?

Could someone post some stuff on 3.0 magneto plz?