Official Canada Whining Thread(aka XvsSF thread)
Hey what are some good combos and infinites and strats for this game? I’m new to it, and would like to learn about it. umthrfkr should come here and drop science on Rogue, and how he beat Justin Wong…
What characters you want to know about? I know a lot 'o shit, so, if we’re talking combos/strats/infs/whatever, you gotta give me a base. (I’m not too hot with Chun/Cammy/Rogue/Storm, though. Just so you know. Just about everyone else, though…)
I’ve recently re-picked up Ken in the game… My newest interest… I’ll rant about him for a minute if you want… I generally play for fun, and leave the Infinites out… But I’ll list em for ya…
[ NOTE: Ken is not ‘Top Tier’. Top Tier doesn’t neccessarily mean as much in XvsSF as it does in, say, MvC2, but nonetheless, many a person thinks Ken can’t do anything in this game. I disagree. ]
Main Corner Combo : c.fierce /\ sj.jab -> sj.short -> sj.up.forward, Air Throw / c.jab xx ShinRyuKen / s.fierce -> s.roundhouse /\ Air Throw / c.jab xx ShinRyuKen / /\ j.up.roundhouse / Insert FS Ground Combo (If you mash on the ShinRyuKens, they won’t live past the second one anyway.)
The Air Throw -> c.jab xx ShinRyuKen is one of his most important combo links, and it works on absolutely anybody. You don’t need it vs Cammy/Chun, though. You can just do Air Throw -> ShinRyuKen pretty easily.
Useful Infinites : After FS Setup(SJ.up.roundhouse x 2 / )
/\ j.jab -> j.up.roundhouse / [ /\ j.jab -> j.up.forward -> j.up.roundhouse / ] Repeat Brackets. You may need to add a j.short for heavy characters, and adjust for light characters, ect ect.
If you catch a jumping opponent with any jumping attack, see if you can cancel it into a Roundhouse Air Hurricane and go into this…
[ / /\ j.strong -> j.up.forward(Small Pause) xx Roundhouse Hurricane Kick(One Hit) ]
Use that to get them into the corner, then do whatever. It’s very possible to follow up a Juggle Air Hurricane hit with a ShinRyuKen.
Strategems:
Several ways to go about playing Ken… Most of them need to be used at once for him to be effective…
Rushdown Poke Games - Ken’s dash is tricky. There’s a part at the beginning of it that you can’t cancel out of. You need to learn the exact point at which you ‘can’, and know it well. Use that point, and use small dashes, to poke with c.jab -> c.short, or c.forward… If it connects, cancel into ShoRyuReppa. If it get’s blocked, and you’re far, cancel into FB, or Short Ground Hurricane Kick(Don’t get predictable with it. It’s just there to provide a Fake Out option.) If you’re close, follow through with Jab DP. Very little can be done to counter an XvsSF Jab DP, as long as it doesn’t wiff.
(A note about the ShoRyuReppa… Don’t do it on Heavy Characters. Juggernaut and Gambit are ‘BIG’ No Nos. Gambit can counter with a Jab Cajun Slash even if it connects… He can counter with an Inf[Hard] if you’re in the corner, or a generally nasty combo, all EVEN IF it connects. Juggernaut can counter with a HeadCrush, EVEN IF it connects. Or a throw.(Jugg Throw = Bad. Jugg Throw = Launch -> Air combo -> Bouncing Throw -> Jab Juggernaut Punch -> OTG -> Headcrush -> Dead) Mag/Sabre can counter with throws too… Be careful of doing the super on heavy characters near the corner.)
Air Fireball Zoning - Ken’s Air FB is pretty decent. Try to learn how to Super Jump and do it relatively low… Often, Super Jumping Towards them, doing Jab Air FB, Fierce Air FB, and coming down on them is effective. It’s also decent in playing Keepaway. By doing the FBs during a Super Jump, you have more control over how you come down, and can better setup the range of your j.roundhouse, or just land and play some poking. Also, I’m suprised how many people don’t know how Normal Jumping FBs, work… It’s possible to do a normal jump, throw a Fireball, and block on the way down… You just have to be careful that ‘all’ you do is a fireball… Not j.jab xx Jab Air FB, ect… Don’t press the punch until the QCF has been fully completed, that way you can avoid a premature cancel, and can attack/block on the way down from the FB.
Corner DP Games - Ken’s DP is very strong. It has a good horizontal range compared to other Shotos. Also, there is a mindgame that it works with in the corner. After a DP in the corner, it’s possible to Super Jump and air throw them on the way up. It’s also possible to just wait and do another DP. Test out your opponent a little to see how he reacts to falling next to you. Then, act accordingly. If he’s defensive and blocks on the way down, next time, meet him with an air throw, ect. Next time, do the other. As a perpetrator of a 50/50 mindgame your opponent most likely isn’t aware of, you have more than a 50/50 advantage. The only problem is that a Jab DP, against a standing opponent, does not always hit them high enough to start this mindgame. Sometimes they could use a boost. Another trick you can use with Ken’s DP, is his Air Jab DP. A specific technique that can be very effective is doing a SJ, then a Jab DP an inch off the ground. It holds almost the same safety as your normal Jab DP, it avoids low pokes, and also, sends them flying extremely high. One way to do it is pressing Forward, Down, Down/Forward, Forward, Forward/Up, Jab. The DP motion takes precedence over the FB motion. I would advise against using 3K to SJ into it, as it results in frequent accidental ShinRyuKen activations, because that takes precedence over the DP motion.
Roll Counters - Ken’s Punch Throw is his better ground throw… It does slightly less damage, but he can OTG into Launch after it. This means two things… One, that it opens up combos… Two, it gives your opponent a reason to roll. Ken has one of the better Roll Counter games. After a Punch Throw into the corner, he has 4 viable options.
One, immediately hold back and Dash away from the corner. If they roll, at the moment they recover, you can have a c.forward waiting for them on their ‘Away from the Corner’ side. That, xx ShoRyuReppa, and they’re back in the corner, and primed for DP Corner Games.
Two, immediately hold back, and wait a second before dashing away from the corner. If they roll, at the moment they recover, you can have a c.forward waiting for them on their ‘Towards the Corner’ side.
Three, immediately hold back, and dash away from the corner as they roll. Right before they recover(You should be approximately right next to where they will recover), tap down to cancel the dash, and throw them as they recover. Preferably, with a Punch Throw into the corner. Familiar?
Four, OTG them into Launch, and combo them to their death.
Because the game doesn’t enforce a character’s space on the stage when they’re in a Rolling state, it’s possible to be standing ‘right’ where they will recover as they roll. The line between ‘Left Side’ and ‘Right Side’ is literally a pixel, and with practice, impossible for them to tell which side you’ll be hitting and act in response. To make things ‘worse’, the state of them rolling past you reverses their controls. dashing with them and hitting them on their ‘Towards the Corner’ side ‘often’ forces them to block as if you were hitting their other side. You can also switch out the c.forward for a c.fierce.
Air Hurricane Movement - Ken’s momentum is accellerated when doing an Air Hurricane. Against most characters, this can be a viable way to close in for his closer Poke/DP/Throw games. It is also a decent way to build meter. It’s always best to cancel out of an attack on the way up when doing an air hurricane, though… If only building meter… When facing a cornered opponent, it’s often very effective to give them an opening(The breather after a blocked Jab DP often fills this spot well), then jump and land an early j.roundhouse, xx Air Roundhouse Hurricane(Two Hits) / ShinRyuKen. You can also throw out a j.strong at them on the way up, and hurricane on the way down, just to keep the pressure on them and to make your Low Pokes more effective.
Also, Ken’s Air Hurricane is very good at crossing up opponents. At the right distance, a jumping roundhouse hurricane hits them in the back of the head. You’ll land too far away to do a whole lot… Except ShoRyuReppa. s.fierce xx Fierce FB works on heavier opponents that you shouldn’t risk using that super on. Learn the distance vs enemy height that sets up this crossup, and play with it.
Miscellaneous - What did I forget… Oh, Right, his Invincibility/Priority. It comes in ‘very’ useful. First, you need to know what Advancing Guard Cancel (AG Cancel) is. Every player should know it really. If it’s not useful to you, which it probably will be, it will be used against you at the least.
When you Pushblock(Advancing Guard… 3P While Blocking, of course), in XvsSF, you recover a specific time after that. Regardless of what just hit you. Let’s use Chun Li’s QCF+KK Super as an example.(That annoying Rushing Super that’s invincible at the end so you can’t counter it after the fact) In the middle of blocking it, you hit 3P, and Pushblock it. If you let go of the controls, in a second, you’ll recover from the pushblock, return to neutral state, and then eat the second half of the super. If you hold block, he’ll pushblock, recover, then continue blocking. However, during that split second, you ‘are’ in Neutral state. With that said…
Ken has ridiculous Priority in his Dragon Punch, and he has startup invulnerability in his ShoRyuReppa AND his entire ShinRyuKen. What this means… Is that when you pushblock the middle of that Chun Li Super, during those few frames of Neutral State, you can hit her with a Jab Dragon Punch(Hell, a Fierce Dragon Punch), and stop her flatout. It also means, that you can input a ShinRyuKen, and Ken will be invulnerable as the super comes out(Two or three kicks wiff), then hit the Very Close Chun Li with the whole thing. Ken can interrupt ‘anything’ short of Beam Supers(You cannot AG Cancel a beam super), but, just as important, he can preemptively avoid much more. At Full Screen, if Storm does a Hail Storm, he can do a Strong Dragon Punch(You can even do it ‘after’ the Pause Screen Effect) and bypass the whole thing, taking maybe One hit of hail at the end. That means if Cyclops pulls a random Mega Optic Blast on you at full screen, you can ShinRyuKen your way out of it. That means if Juggernaut, or ANYBODY, comes at you with anything and you have 2 frames to respond, you can stop it with a DP. (Stopping Headcrushes with a DP is not hard. However, if you’re already in neutral state and the chip damage won’t kill you, it is, of course, better to block it and counter after. Try stopping a HeadCrush with a ShinRyuKen. That’s a funny one.) Bypassing Magnetic Shockwaves with ShoRyuReppa… Everything. A big part of playing Ken is working his DP/Supers to aid in evasion.
Oh yeah, one more thing. His sweep opens up some options too. In the corner, you can do Sweep -> ShinRyuKen. Midscreen, you can do Sweep -> Fierce DP(OTG). Also, midscreen, you can do Sweep -> Jab DP, and cross them up for a meaty attack… Wether or not you cross them up depends on how close you where when you did the sweep. You can play with that, and different strength DPs, and even different strength Hurricanes. Another pseudo trick is Sweep -> Jab Fireball. It doesn’t connect at all, but they generally get the impression that you’re vulnerable… As soon as you recover, do a Jab DP, which will be ‘right’ before they get up. It’ll stuff any Wake Up attacks, even knock them into the FB(They can block the FB, if they’re expecting it), and at the worst, they block it and you’re relatively safe.
Eh… I’m tired. That’s about all I got for Ken right now. Except character specific combos, matchups, and good teamates… (He has killer Vs Dhal and Vs Jugg combos) But I’ll leave that for later. If anyone even wants it.
Nice to see a XvsSF thread. Sorry for spamming it with too much info. 
P.S.: Screw typos, I’m lazy.
Prozac Out
Bah, too much info? I was afraid that my first reply would be “yeah I like this game it’s neat i use magnus because he is t3h zippy omgttyl!!”:lol: That was Great Ken shit, much appreciated:D
I should have been much more specific with what characters I’m interested in right now, I’d say that I’m interested in Gambit, Sabretooth, Cyclops, Magneto and Storm, one thing I have noticed about Storm though is that her MvC2 style “Flyaway then HP for a long time then throw in a LA and repeat til you fall” builds insane meter. Like you can get 3 bars in one rep. Is there a way to stop this that I’m missing, or is it really practical? Cause it seems like you could just do that, do a safe tagout to a meter hog, and then have fun. Since I’m a newbie to the game I might be totally off though…
Oh your combo vid was cool:D
I know a ‘lot’ with Gambit. He’s probably one of my best 2 characters.(Ryu is tied with him in my skill level… Charlie is my best without doubt).
About Storm Keepaway… Yes, it’s pretty effective in XvsSF… Gambit gives her a hard time with it, though, and Charlie/Ken/Cyc both give her a somewhat hard time with it… The way it ussually works is she plays flyaway until she has meter, then chips with Hail Storm. Gambit can hit her out of the air with his sj.strong pretty easily, into sj.fierce, ect, plus trick cards… He generally makes it tough for her to stay away. Charlie can knock her out of Hail Storm if he does a Fierce SB right as she starts it. Ken can completely avoid the Hail Storm if he does a Strong DP right after it starts, plus his Air DPs can make it tricky for her fly offscreen. Generally, it’s why Storm is supposedly ‘Top Tier’, though. Hard to stop her keepaway.
So about Gambit… Alot of how you need to play Ken is mindgames… A lot of how you need to play Gambit is taking advantage of his really good Normals/Specials. I’ll go over which ones you need to know.
j.fierce, s.forward, c.forward, s.roundhouse, Jab Cajun Slash, Air Kinetic Card.
His Jab Cajun Slash is a godly move. It has very good priority, good damage, about 1/2 screen range, and it’s unpunishable if blocked. Basically, if you land a low hit and aren’t close enough to launch, do this. Always. If you think they’re going to do something, do this and stuff it. Great for countering almost anything after the fact, because it comes out so fast with such range.
His j.fierce has nuts priority, too. It can beat out almost any launcher easily(j.fierce vs Cyc’s c.forward is tricky, though). You often have to do it early, though, so it’s difficult to combo upon landing… j.fierce -> j.roundhouse / Jab Cajun Slash is good enough though, good damage.
His Air Cards is basically two things… One, an Anti FB technique… If you think they’re going to FB, FB Super, projectile anything, SJ up and toss a card at them. Two, it’s a setup for his j.fierce. At about 1/3rd screen range, you can sj, throw a jab card at them, then j.fierce them on the way down.
His s.forward is good because it’s fast, and has good range. Poking with Gambit is effective, because he can always follow up with his Jab Cajun Slash. I’ve seen Gambit players use his s.forward for Lockdown Type tactics, repeatedly dashing with it. I generally use it to get to the Range I want. d.s.forward(Dashing, Standing MK, you know SF notation, right?) xx Jab Cajun Slash, even if blocked, puts me at about the range I want, perfect for SJ Air Cards -> j.fierce, a low dashin, whatever.
His c.forward is just as good a poke… This one is probably his best bet for landing lucky Jab Cajun Slashes.
Mindgame Strategy:
Knockdown Mindgame - I don’t use many Mind Games with Gambit, but this one is a must. Anytime you knock them down, you’re setting this up(Jab Cajun Slash comes in handy again.) As they get up, you’ve got two options. One, dash at them and hit with a meaty c.short -> c.fierce. Two, dash at them, cancel the dash with down, and throw them. Gambit is very good at Wave Dash Throwing(Name for dash cancelling into Throw), and his throws aren’t bad. It’s a tactic you will want to learn with Gambit, so try getting the timing down for a seemless Down Cancel into Throw(You can get it so you can’t even see the crouch, or any pause at all). Kick Throw does a lot of damage, but you can combo after the punch throw. Wake Up attacks can make this mindgame difficult, though… Only 4 characters have ones good enough to make you worry, though. Shotos, and Charlie. DP/Short Somersault are seriously good wakeup attacks. In any case, if you’re have trouble with that, dash in, block the wakeup, then Jab Cajun Slash punish them, rinse and repeat.
Kinetic Card Keepaway - Gambit can play decent keepaway with his Cards and his j.fierce/Jab Cajun Slash. Cajun Slash can keep them back on the ground, and his j.fierce can keep them from jumping in, and you can chip/land lucky cards with his Air Cards. Ground cards too… It’s always alright to throw out an occasional Fierce Ground Card(Best to cancel out of a blocked s.roundhouse. Gives them the right amount of time to register that they’re not in blockstun anymore, and maybe mess up and eat the card)… If it connects, go into Royal Flush(Or Ground Fierce Card -> Ground Jab Card -> Royal Flush, if you wanna be flashy). His range and priority can keep them away rather well.
Launcher Mindgames - This one is mostly just for fun. Gambit’s launcher hits them pretty high, and he recovers pretty quick from it. It’s possible to do c.fierce, then Dash under them, and do another c.fierce, ect ect. So… Your basic options after a c.fierce, are…
- Dash under them and do c.fierce on the other side
- Stay where you are and do a c.fierce again
- Dash under them and do c.short -> c.fierce as they land
- Dash under them, then dash back and do s.short(Juggle) -> c.fierce on the side you were first on
- Cancel into a Fierce Trick Card to hit them on their way down
- Jump and air throw them on their way down(Not SJ, normal jump)
- Do nothing and throw them when they land.
What I ‘ussually’ do is c.fierce, dash under them and c.fierce, dash under them and c.fierce, Fierce Trick Card. They generally catch on after the second crossup, and fall right into the Trick Card. After the card, you can do almost anything, Royal Flush, air combo, launch them again, whatever. After the initial use is when it starts to get tricky. A good thing to do at that point, is to just setup the trap(Maybe Launch, then one Crossunder -> Launch), And just let them land and throw them. On to Combos
Combos: Gambit has basically two kinds of combos. His FS setup, and his corner cards setup.
Combo 1 - In Corner, c.fierce /\ sj.short(Pause) -> sj.strong -> sj.forward -> sj.fierce(FS) -> sj.roundhouse, sj.short(OTG) / [ s.short -> s.strong -> s.forward -> s.fierce(Pause) -> s.roundhouse ] x N, s.short, Punch Throw.(This infinite is very easy[I can do 200+ hits with my eyes closed. Seriously. And I don’t even use Infs in matches. I do use this as a throw setup, though.] The setup is the difficult part. Another setup you can try is c.fierce /\ sj.short(Long pause) -> sj.forward(Pause) -> sj.roundhouse, sj.fierce(OTG) / FS Infinite)
Combo 2 - In corner, Punch Throw. d.s.short(OTG) -> s.forward -> s.roundhouse xx Jab Kinetic Card, [ d.s.short -> s.roundhouse xx Jab Kinetic Card ] x N, d.s.short -> c.fierce xx Royal Flush. This infinite isn’t so easy. Against heavier characters, you may need to add in an occasional s.forward to the rep… Against Cammy/Chun, good luck, I’ve yet to find a reliable way to do it. The reason this combo is useful, though, is because it’s almost impossible to do the FS Combo setup from anything but a Launch on a Standing opponent. If you juggle with the launch, the setup is much harder. If you OTG into the launch, you can’t OTG into the FS combo. One OTG per combo rule. So, this is probably the best way to do damage.
It’s hard to explain some things about Gambit gameplay… I guess I gave you a lot more info about Ken, but I’m definitely much better with Gambit. Try out some of it and see how he works.
Magneto has a lot of stuff to talk about, but I don’t feel like doing it… Heh… Sabre’s pretty simplistic(Though not neccessarily bad), but I’ll get to him later… What I can tell you right now, is how to make Fly Mode useful with Storm.
First off, Storm is Invincible when she goes into Fly Mode. For the brief period where she spins upward, and all that, she’s invulnerable. She can bypass Magnetic Shockwaves and such with that. While in Fly Mode, she can be very deadly, as long as you know fly combos. Landing a f.fierce should mean you get a free corner air combo. I’ll show you.
Fact 1 - In Marvel vs Capcom, during Fly Mode, you can air dash infinitely, whenever you want to. In XvsSF, you can’t. You can only air dash once, then you have to return to Neutral state before you can air dash again.
Fact 2 - While in the air, storm can cancel most of her attacks with Up during the later part of their animation, activating her Float mechanism. Floating, for storm, counts as a Neutral State.
So, what you can do, is f.fierce(Flying Fierce) xx Air Dash Down/Towards, ad.short -> ad.fierce, Hold Up/Towards(This cancels the ad.fierce with Float, which counts as neutral, AND lets you link another f.fierce easily), f.fierce xx Air Dash Down/Towards, ad.short -> ad.fierce, ect ect ect.
What I ussually do, is fly around until I land a f.short in the back of their head. Then, I f.fierce xx [ AD Down/Towards, ad.short -> ad.fierce xx Float, f.fierce xx Float, f.fierce xx AD Down/Towards ]. This takes them to the corner quickly. You can ussually get about 20 hits out of it, too. But the next thing you need to know, is how to go from a Fly Combo to a Ground Combo. What you do, is Air Dash Down/Towards, ad.short -> ad.fierce xx Unfly. Doing that will result in ad.short -> ad.fierce -> j.roundhouse, and she will fall to the ground ‘as’ she is doing the roundhouse. Then you can do d.s.jab -> launch/whatever.
My Storm Corner combos aren’t the best, so you can figure something out or ask a Storm Pro, heh. I also know that my technique of ‘Buzzing around trying to land a f.short’ isn’t the best. Theoretically, you have AD.Fierce at your disposal the whole time… It would be possible to land a sudden ad.fierce, xx Float, then start your fly combo. As such, whoring f.fierce/AD.fierce would be more effective once you’re good at it. I’m just not good at it.
Also, of course, you can’t block while flying. However, as long as you have a couple of frames to respond, you can Unfly -> Block anything[As long as Unfly Glitch is set. Basically, this only works if you’ve been hit out of Fly Mode earlier in the match already]. It’s good to get into the habit of a quick Unfly -> Block.
That’s it for me, for now. Thanks for the video props, though.
Rogue can be one of the fastest people in the game(IMO). I use her all the time on kaillera(probably spelt it wrong). Once you land a hit with her you can connect it into a good night sugar. I usually try to rush down into the corner and either land a dash HK(land)lk,mk, super… or i will rush in the corner and try to land a kiss throw. If you land one that throws them into the corner, then just do a super after rogue releases the person from the throw. I like to abuse her kiss throw alot. If i know that someone will roll alot, i will wait till they roll behind me, then i will dash the do the kiss throw motion. I usually get it for like 2 reps then they learn not to roll. Which if you know they arent going to roll, you can dash in and do clk XX super, or since they will in crouching mode till they stand up you dash and tri jump with down+HK. With rogue its all about rushing since she doesnt have any projectiles. If you ever land a dash down+HK and are close enough to them, you can go for her infinite: dash down+HK,land, jump up LK,dash down+HK repeat.
Cool corner combo:
launch,lk,down+HK,(land), clk,jump,jlp, jlk,jmp,jhp or hp.
I use cyclops alot too. He can be really good at running away and chipping and rushing down. You can optic blast to get priority and keep people grounded and where you want them. Abuse his HP throw especially in the corner. If you land a HP grab in the corner there is so much you can do. You can set it up into the infinite, or you can so a standing HKxxmega optic blast.
Very useful and practical super combo. If you ever get a launch, you can link it into a free super. combo: launch, sjmk or sjmp, forward-down-back- all punch button super. Just make sure once it connect, to aim it upward after the first few hits.
Storm can be real good at rush and run away too, just like in mvc2. I usually try to tri jump real fast with lk and air combo. If i manage to launch in the corner i go for the corner infinite: launch, lk,up+hp repeat till you get near the bottom. Now you can either end here or once you get low enough with the up+Hp, jump up, lk,mk,HP,HK, repeat.
If you get them with a HP throw in the corner you can do a very easy infinite: Hp throw, [jump up,j.lk, DOWN FORWARD lightning attack] repeat in the brackets. You have to make sure it is down forward, not down or else it wont work. very easy and practical if you land a HP grad in the corner.
I am no expert at all, but this is just some info that i have that i hope is helpful.
Sabretooth, Sabretooth…
Sabretooth is relatively simplistic, if only because how good some of his moves are, are very lopsided. His supers are ‘very’ good. Absurdly high damage, one of them can be repeated. His Air Throw is good. His Jumping Normals are very good. His ground normals are very bad, and his specials are very bad. His jump, is very good. From this information alone, you can see why almost all Sabre players spend the whole match in the air, trying to link a super. So… Some basic Sabre Neccessities…
His jump is very fast… The basic idea behind sabre, is that at any time, he has two strong options… One, is to jump at you and hit you with j.fierce on the way up, -> j.roundhouse / c.short -> launch -> air throw -> super. The other, is to hit you with c.short, and go right into the launch. Your job is to make them guess wrong. You’ve got two ways to mix them up…
One, throw out the j.fierce early. It’ll make them more reluctant to hold that Low Block. To take advantage of this, after two or three jumps, land, pause for a split second, then hit low. Sabre’s jump is very fast, and often their thoughts will get ahead of their eyes and they’ll shift to block the anticipated early j.fierce, and eat the c.short instead.
Two, throw out the j.roundhouse late. Doing this will make them reluctant as to when to ‘start’ blocking low. To take advantage of this, on one of your jumps, throw the j.fierce out a little bit later than your usual Early, and don’t throw out the roundhouse at all. Just land and c.short. They’ll generally wait until after the Roundhouse to know it’s safe to block low, and by the time they realize you didn’t do the roundhouse, it’s too late.
Combinations of these timing tricks are the fundamental basis for landing his damaging combos… Which are…
c.fierce /\ sj.jab -> sj.short -> sj.strong, Air Throw / Berserker Claw X(QCF+PP)
In Corner : c.fierce /\ sj.jab -> sj.short -> sj.strong, Air Throw / Wild Fang X(DP+PP), Wild Fang X, Wild Fang X(Ussually they’re dead after two).
Those are his Bread and Butter combos, and you’ll be seeing a lot of them almost anytime you play against/as Sabre. He has more advanced combo options, here and there, though… For example, you can do…
In the corner, Air Throw / d.s.forward, s.short(OTG) -> s.fierce(Two hits) /\ sj.jab, Air Throw
Vs Shotos, Midscreen, you can do Air Throw / Strong Berserker Claw(You have to do this as soon as you recover, or else it will miss), s.short(OTG) -> s.fierce(Two Hits) /\ sj.jab, Air Throw
And, worth noting, is that you can always OTG after his Jab Berserker Claw. So, you can do s.roundhouse xx Jab Berserker Claw, s.short(OTG) -> s.fierce, ect ect ect.
And, one more thing about him… He has the fastest super activation in the game. His Team Super ‘comes out’ faster than any other super, Period. His Team Super in of itself isn’t that good, it’s basically a powerful Jab Berserker Claw, but it comes out at lightning speed(It seems to be a 1-2 Frame activation. I could be wrong, though), so you can have a backup teamate that can benefit from this.
Gambit comes to mind. It makes very good use of the Stick he tosses up, and you can also use Gambit as an instant Beam Super. Plus, there’s a trick you can do. When doing a team super, your opponent has to block according to the direction of the character that ‘started’ the Team Super. So, if someone were to jump, and you were to activate a Sabre/Gambit TS with Sabre, and Sabre went ‘under’ them… In order to block the Royal Flush, they would have to hold ‘towards’ Gambit. Plus, if they ‘do’ block it, the blockstun pushes them towards Sabretooth. The way Team Supers work, is if you hit the person who activated the Team Super during it, he takes the hit and flies away(You can’t hit him a second time), and the other character instantly recovers to a neutral state, no matter what. In other words… Aside from one hit they could give to Sabre… It’s safe.
Oh yeah, One more thing. Sabre’s Variable Counter isn’t bad, because you can OTG into one of his cheesy damaging combos after it… Plus, there’s a glitchy effect of it that is ‘very’ good for you… If you use it to hit somebody out of almost ‘any’ super, there’s a very good chance of it freezing them in place for a few seconds(Doing it vs Beam Supers, up close, is a good way to see what I mean). If they’re in the corner, this means you can do s.jab -> s.fierce(One Hit) xx Wild Fang X x N until dead. If they’re not in the corner, you can just Berserker Claw X them. Or, launch into air throw, if you trust their lack of ability to Tech Hit.
One of the most fundamental things that you have to be good at in this game is being able to tech throws. Throws in this game are windows for free damage. If you can’t tech them, expect to eat damage fast. Here are some examples of stupidly easy damage off of throws:
Cyke: in corner, FP throw, launch --> infinite
Storm: close to corner, st. RH, sj. JP, FP throw, Lightning storm (easy 33%, if not more)
Ken: close to corner, FP throw (or air throw), cr. FP --> infinite
You may notice that those combos all involve being close to the corner. This leads up to my next point, stay out of corners. Most characters have infinites, but not every one of them has a midscreen, most must be done in the corner.
Recognize juggle opportunities that may seem like OTGs, but are true juggles. Remember that you can only OTG once in a combo, but if you can hit them and juggle them before landing, the combo will continue. Here’s an example (which is really impractical since your opponent can mash out):
Mag:
cr. FP, sj. JP, sj. SK, sj. SP, FP throw upwards, ad. df., [hypergrav, magnetic tempest, cr. SK, cr. RH] x3
The cr. SK can be completely quickly enough such that your opponent lands on Magneto’s outstretched leg, and not the ground and so is juggled, and the game does not register it as an OTG.
There are some moves which cannot be rolled out of. These are free OTG opportunities. Examples are, Wolverine’s Berserker Barrage X, and Akuma’s Shungokusatsu.
What you refer to as Juggles and not OTGs are known as Near Off the Ground links by some… But they do count as OTGs. I know this, because you cannot do a Near OTG, then do a normal OTG. The reason Near OTGs work, I believe, is because they hit the opponent before, somewhere along the line, the One OTG rule has a chance to kick in. Essentially, they just have to be at the earliest possible moment.
However… You cannot mash out of Hyper Grav in XvsSF. So, that combo you mentioned isn’t escapable… But, the nOTG after Tempest link is very difficult, and unneccessary. There is a better way(I’ll explain that later).
Also, the Berserker Barrage X cannot be rolled, but it’s not due to the specific move… Rather, due to the fact that the move inflicts the Flying Screen rules. These rules kick in after most ‘Air Combo Finishers’, and some special/super moves, like Juggernaut Punch, Magnetic Shockwave, or Berserker Barrage X.(On a related note… Juggernaut Punch and Magnetic Shockwave inflict a ‘Temporary’ FS. The restrictions automatically disappear seconds after. This is very unusual… But… It makes things like Jab Juggernaut Punch, c.short(OTG) -> Headcrush possible.) This is akin to not being able to roll after some Air Combos(Like Ryu’s c.fierce /\ sj.jab -> sj.short -> sj.up.forward -> sj.up.roundhouse, sj.fierce -> sj.up.roundhouse /). However, these OTG oppurtunities are free licenses to combo, as with the FS Rules in place, you cannot Super Jump, or do anything but Normals. The most viable option is either an infinite that works with the FS rules in place(If you want to be a pain in the ass), or possibly a setup for a throw.(For example, with Ryu, after that combo I listed… You could do c.short(OTG) -> c.strong, then throw them when they land.)
Ken cannot launch after his Ground Punch Throw, though, unless it’s on Cammy/Chun Li. His air throw is a true threat, however. Overall, I would very much agree that the ability to reliably Tech Hit throws comes in very handy in XvsSF. On the other side, it helps not to make your throw setups predictable. For this reason, try to avoid using the same combos hit for hit that lead to a throw… Also, Tech Hitting an Air Throw often results in throwing out an accidental Punch/Kick/Whatever… If that happens, you cannot block on the rest of your way down to the ground… So, try to avoid doing that, or on the other hand, try to capitalize on it.
Now, about the better way to followup Magneto’s Hypergrav… XvsSF has a strong Momentum Engine. Your momentum often affects the way Opponents are juggled by certain hits. If you juggle with a dashing attack, chances are, they’ll go flying away. There is a glitch that uses this to it’s advantage with Magneto’s Tempest.
The honest way to do it, is Hypergrav, Super Jump, then do the Tempest an inch or so off the floor… The game registers your momentum as ‘Moving up really fast’. Each hit from the Tempest sends them up ‘really far’ in comparison to how high it would normally send them up. High enough, that after the tempest, you can combo them on the way up during your SJ, ect…
The glitched way to do it, is to do a SJ, then do a Tempest before you even leave the ground. Easiest way to do this is with the Tiger Knee motion. If done right, you’ll see a dust cloud under Mag as the Tempest comes out(The same dust that happens when he Super Jumps). Magneto will never leave the ground, but the tempest will send them up into the air really high, as if you had done the first version. Afterwards, you can do s.roundhouse(One hit) xx Grav, Glitch Tempest, ect ect ect.
yo prozac from GCC?? any good bison infinite/hard combos?? i’m kinda stuck tryin to find one out. an infinite would be really great.
Gambit can also crossup quite well with his jump roundhouse, and his jumping strong is a very good air to air attack when you are coming up underneath them. (Forward also appears to aim up but I find strong works better, and you can chain forward after strong)
My Gambit vs Sabretooth strategy is basically jump around and do fierce if he is below me and strong if he is above me…Sabretooth is not the best air to air fighter as all his air attacks are angled either down or horizontal.
Hot thread you guys. This game is still hot here in SoCal.
Hey ProzacNation, where do you live?
-XvDF
Damn, prozac nation fielding xvsf questions. I’m in the right place.
If I remember correctly, there’s a rogue glitch where she steals Magneto’s power, then does her own hypergrav which can be teched. If teched, the opponent lands facing the wrong direction. Is that right? I’m going to try it out soon and was wondering if I would be wasting my time.
Also, what’s up with the akuma raging demon glitch? Where he grabs bison out of a roll with RD, but bison just gets right up. I’m wondering if that is specific to Bison, or if 2 akumas can do it. If I were to use 2 akumas, akuma#1 grabs akuma#2 out of the roll, but then akuma#2 gets up early and does his own RD, then c. lk, c. hp… Showing both aspects of the RD.
Wow this thread has some good stuff in it. Unfortunately I don’t have a stick that can be used with XvsSF yet, just the stupid kb:( Still alot of great info. Just to make sure we’re talking about v. 2 right?
hey, will someone tell me which is which? here in the philippines we have 3 versions… the american, japanese, and the PS EX version, now will sumbody tell me what are their corresponding version #'s??
Version Differences -
Version 1 - The most noticable thing in this version is Ryu/Akuma. Their hopkick recovers while they’re still in the air. This allows for things like Hopkick, j.jab / whatever, and the ‘really’ easy infinite of Hopkick, s/c.strong -> Hopkick, ect ect.(If Ryu can combo a Beam Super off of the Hopkick by doing it in the air before he lands, it’s V1.) Also, Ryu’s hurricane super has some different, glitchy properties in V1. If it hits as a juggle, each hit pushes the enemy ‘down’. However, the hits don’t immobilize them, so all they do is bounce off the ground(Which makes them recover). If they don’t block, Sweep -> Hurricane Super can be a 100% attack. With Throw -> c.roundhouse(OTG) xx Hurricane Super, they have to hold ‘towards’ you to block the juggle hits… If they hold Back, it’s a 75% attack.
Version 2 - This is your ‘basic’ XvsSF version. It’s the most common. They fixed the Hurricane Kick Super and the Hopkick(You recover from the hopkick after you hit the ground now, and the best you can do is Hopkick -> s./c.jab, and even that is hard. Also, the Hurricane Super juggle hits bounce you up, so you bounce on top of the super[Which still combos])
Version 3 - I’m not all that sure about the multitude of changes in V3, but I know a few… Storm can’t hit multiple times with her Lightning Attack without landing first, Cyc’s j.fierce and juggs j.fierce/roundhouse send them straight down, Wolv’s Drill Claw doesn’t cause FS anymore(What was that supposed to fix? s.roundhouse /\ sj.jab -> sj.short -> sj.strong -> sj.dwn.forward -> sj.roundhouse / was always a better inf setup) There was probably more.
Those are the 3 ‘Arcade’ versions. PlayStation/Saturn are different versions. I don’t know anything about the PlayStation version, other than that it’s a lot slower. Saturn, I believe, is a fairly accurate port of Version 3.
On to other things…
I live in Massachusetts(=[).
Shin Ace - Yes, that Rogue glitch is correct… I believe… Heh… I didn’t actually record that one, but I believe that’s how I did it later on… A lot of rogue’s Powers are glitchy. For example, right when Rogue throws a Hadouken, it’s hitbox reaches at Peak Jump high 1/2 screen away… She can AA with a Hadouken on response to them jumping at her from ~3/4s screen away, it picks them out of the air before it even leaves her hands. Her Roundhouse Sonic Boom has a HUGE Hit/Blockstun. Longest Ground Hit/Block stun of anything in the game, I think(She can dash in and combo after it, pretty easily). Her Kinetic Card can hit them on their opposite side. It doesn’t crossup as far as Blocking goes(This is because they have to block according to You, not to what hit them)
Also, about the Raging Demon thing… Believe it or not, it isn’t a Raging Demon thing, it’s a Throw thing. Also, the RD didn’t grab Bison out of a roll, it was s.short(OTG) -> Hopkick, s.jab(Doesn’t combo) xx RD. The game is kind of weird about the 2 Throws per Combo rule, and seems to inflict a sort of ‘Quick Getup’ protection along with it when you use certain setups. The hopkick -> (Combo breaks)s.jab -> Throw link, after an earlier throw in the same combo, seems to do the job.
HyperSlasherz - Heh… Bison combos, eh? They’re not very plentiful… Bison’s big power is in his normals that have ‘crazy’ priority, and his throw that also has crazy priority, and hurts even if teched… But I’ll see what I can give you…
His only infinite, that I know of, only works on Rogue, unforunately… I forget exactly how it goes… But it’s an nOTG infinite. I think it was s.fierce /\ sj.strong, sj.jab -> sj.strong -> sj.fierce(Hits her during her glitchy hit reel, FS) / [ c.short(nOTG) -> c.fierce, /\ j.short -> j.strong -> j.fierce(Hits during her glitchy hit reel) / ] It’s ‘something’ like that… A launch, 4 hit air combo ending in glitchy j.fierce, [ OTG into c.fierce, three hit jump combo ending in glitchy j.fierce, ] repeat…
For bison combos, there are a few tricks… You can OTG after his sweep with HCF+Fierce(The purple ball that swerves down first), into Psycho Crusher(Hard), or in the corner, into s.short -> s.fierce /\ ect. It also depends on how good you are at mashing… If you’re ‘really’ good, there’s something you can do… SJ Cancel the middle of a combo into the Psycho Crusher(Something like d.c.short -> s.roundhouse(Two hits) xx SJ, Air Psycho Crusher) and mash it out the best you can. If you can mash it good enough, you can hit them on the way down after it with j.jab or something, land, launch, ect ect. That works ‘midscreen’. In the corner, it’s a bit easier, and you don’t really have to mash(You ‘have’ to SJ Cancel though. The PsychoC has to be done in an SJ state. In the corner, you can cancel it with the Wall and combo on the way down from it, though. Sometimes it’s better just to do SJ PsychoC / Throw, though. His throws are ‘really’ good).
Margalis is right - Yeah, Gambit’s j.roundhouse is a really good crossup. It’s useful for getting out of the corner, because you can hop over them, cross them up, and then lock ‘them’ in the corner… Midscreen, it chains to c.short -> s.roundhouse xx Jab Cajun Slash very nicely. Gambit’s j.strong is one of the best Upward Air moves in the game though… It’s ‘great’ for picking Storm out of the air, and for tapping characters jumping in after a Halftime KO(j.strong -> j.forward(Slight pause) -> j.fierce(Slight pause) -> j.roundhouse(OTG) / Inf/FS Combo/Cool FSD pwnage). My Anti-Sabre Strat is Ryu, though. Heh. His j.fierce cleanly beats anything that Sabre can throw out Air vs Air, and chained into Roundhouse Hurricane, it’s practically unstoppable pressure against him.(He has to guess carefully with Ground vs Air) Keep him on the ground, where your throws are a lot more important and he has crap for normals. Jab DP can catch him off guard and let you go on the attack.(If you land a Ground Punch Throw, follow with s.short(OTG) -> c.fierce /\ sj.up.roundhouse xx Beam Super)
Also, Ken’s j.forward is a pretty good crossup. It’s great for applying midscreen pressure… You can go from it into s.jab, s.jab, s.jab -> c.roundhouse/s.jab, s.jab -> throw games, and it’s another solid option after a sweep.
It’s been a long time since I saw an XvsSF thread that people were interested in… o_O I’ll be back later, and probably post some Charlie stuff(I’m sick with Charlie, so much stuff…) Any other questions, let me know… Comments? Strats? I don’t know everything, heh, I’m sure some Mag/Storm/Chun pros are eager to spam strategy.
good thread… 
if you guys got anymore questions, fire away. :tup:
oh yeah… you guys should really try out charlie, i’m sure prozac will post something about him later… he’s godly with him.
I was fooling around with Charlie last night, I’d really like to learn more about him, he seems really REALLY good. I look forward to what is sure to be an informational extravaganza prozac 
(wtf is with these smilies, the encore one looks like a crackhead coughing up blood)
Is Chun Li mostly good because of her stupid super(who the fuck thought RECOVERY invinciblity was a good idea?) or does she have other tools as well(I would guess she has some good priority, since she always does no matter what) Seems like Tooth/Chun is team stupid…
are there any good XMvSF match vids out there? i’m curious now about what a good non-infinite-based match with Charlie/Ken/Gambit/etc looks like.
and yes, great info. great quality and quantity
tanx prozac, for giving me an idea on how to do bison’s infinite… btw, is an FSD combo possible with bison?? i’m kinda stuck tryin to do long combos on bison. in xvsf he’s one of the lowest COMBOABILITY characters, (along w/ juggs)
HyperslasherZ - The trouble with Bison FSD combos, is that it’s so hard to go into a FS Ground Combo with him. If you ‘do’ go into one, you probably have to start it with an OTG. There’s the tricky part… You need two hits to FSD, one to make them recover, and one to hit them right before they recover. Bison can only do 2 hits on the ground, and one of them has to OTG, right? That one doesn’t count. I bet there is a way, though, and if you hold on, I’ll check it out…
Btw, Here’s an abusively painful combo with Juggs( =O ) -
Vs Shotos in Corner : Fierce Throw into corner, s.twd.fierce /\ sj.jab -> sj.fierce -> sj.roundhouse / (Insert retarded /\ j.fierce / infinite. Heh.) /\ j.short / Fierce Throw into Corner, Jab Juggernaut Punch, c.short(OTG. You can use s.forward instead, which looks really funny, but it’s harder) xx Headcrush - ~97%, without any reps of the j.fierce inf.
Glass - XvsSF Match Vids are hard to come by… There’s some casual stuff at http://addictz.darktemplarz.com Downloads section, but some of it’s not very good(Some of it isn’t bad, though. Sid vs Joker matches were good, SiD/Joker/T-Kimura are all decent players[Liquid Metal used to be, not sure about now], but there are often issues with Lag, because all these matches were online). Other than that, Can’t help you, sorry…
N-Ken - Chun’s c.forward is ‘really’ really good… It has nutty range and beats a lot of things, and it basically turns her QCF+KK into a poke. Plus, with her triple jump, air dash, and wall jump, she can stay away from them pretty well and just build meter. That, combined with her c.forward xx Super, makes her pretty good. However, I’m serious about countering her super with Pushblock Cancel if she throws out a random one. Wait until she’s right next to you, then Pushblock, then hold back and mash Strong+Fierce+Forward+Roundhouse. Either you’ll throw her out of her super, or just block the rest of it. Win/Neutral situation(If you still get hit even though you were holding back, she wasn’t close enough when you pushblocked. Wait a bit longer.)
I’ll post some Charlie stuff in a sec… Gonna go see what Bison can do to FSD…