XvsSF thread

Classic Fighting Games Other Games
21

Bison FSDs!

Yay… A few setups -

Vs Rogue in Corner - s.fierce(Slight pause) /\ sj.jab, sj.short -> sj.forward -> sj.fierce(Glitchy hit), sj.fierce(OTG) / s.jab, (FSD)s.jab -> s.roundhouse(One hit) xx SJ, Psycho Crusher, sj.jab -> sj.strong / Comb0

Vs Rogue, in Corner - s.fierce(Slight pause) /\ sj.jab, sj.short -> sj.strong(Slight pause) -> sj.fierce(Glitchy hit) / c.short(OTG, Slight Pause) -> s.strong, (FSD)s.jab -> s.forward xx HCF+Roundhouse

Essentially, bison can link a few Jabs in a row against Rogue as an FS Juggle… Just like Cyc’s and Ryu’s bouncing inf(s.jab -> c.strong), which often FSD, so does this.

Oh yeah… About the Inf… I’m having trouble with it… =/ I was fairly sure of it, but now I’m not… It’s ‘probably’ s.fierce(Slight pause) /\ j.jab, j.short -> j.strong -> j.fierce(Glitchy, FS) / [ c.short(OTG) -> c.fierce, /\ j.jab -> j.strong -> j.fierce(Glitchy) ]. But, it ‘might’ be c.short(OTG) -> c.fierce, [ /\ j.jab -> j.strong -> j.fierce(Glitchy) / s.short -> c.fierce ] Either way, the timing is really tight, and you have to delay the 3 hit jump combo at every oppurtunity without having any of the hits wiff.

22

Charlie Time -

I’ve been using him for a long time, and he’s somewhat complicated… But it comes down to Pressure/Lockdown/Mixup/Sick Combos.

Special Moves worthy of note : Air Forward Razor Kick, Jab Sonic Boom, Short Somersault

His Air Razor Kick - It’s probably his best move… Yeah, even better than Jab Sonic Boom… It has high priority, high damage, and it’s uncounterable if blocked(Not ‘Hard to counter’, it can’t be done Post-Block). Ontop of that, it leads to Mixup/Crossup games you ‘have’ to know to be able to use Charlie very well.(You can get by on Jab SBs and Short Somersaults, but this is key to ‘Higher Charlie’, heh). I’d suggest to use the Forward Kick(MK) version, unless you need the Short/Roundhouse version specifically(They all have different trajectories, and they all send the opponent down at a different speed.) It does more damage, it’s more comboable, and it’s ussually just the right trajectory. I’ll explain his Mixup/Combos with it later. It’s also a ‘seriously’ good Fireball Counter, and a seriously good Low Poke counter, just Jump and immediately RK. Plus, if you catch a lucky Air vs Air hit with it, you may be able to OTG… Always throw out a c.short after it hits somebody in the air just to check.

Jab Sonic Boom - It’s still really, really good. Basically, any time you get an attack string blocked on the ground, you want it to end in this. Anytime you want to close in, you should start with this. Any time you want to keep them from Normal Jumping out the corner, dash back and do this(Use 3P to dash back), then trap them back in. This is half of the key to his pressure game. Blocked attack string, Jab SB, Air Razor Kick, Rinse and repeat, explained in more detail later.

Short Somersault - One of the best Wakeup moves in the game, except that it’s counterable. Not that easy to counter, but don’t let Gambit bait you into it, or you’ll be eating a lot of Jab Cajun Slashes. It’s priority beats just about anything except Invulnerable moves. It’s also a good Medium Range pressure technique. You want to be just far enough away to make them block one hit from it. It’s also a good way to get out of something. If you come down from a Razor Kick crossup game and get surprised with something, you can occasionally Short Somersault out of it(Like, if you land on the wrong side, they jumped over your c.roundhouse, ect ect).

Normal moves worthy of note - c.roundhouse, j.forward, j.jab, c.jab, c.short, c.fierce, s.forward, c.forward (I know it’s a long list, I’ll be brief)

c.roundhouse - His best long range ground attack. If your attack string is getting blocked, end it with This xx Jab SB and keep the pressure on. There’s also a combo with this that is ‘very’ important to know. Once you know that combo, this becomes very useful. Poke with it, chain lucky c.shorts into it, ect ect. Don’t get too predictable with it. They’ll jump it. Keep a Short Somersault, or at least a c.fierce, ready for AA. Combo = c.roundhouse xx SJ, Air Forward Razor Kick(OTG) / c.fierce /\ [Insert Air Combo Here =O ]

j.forward - It’s quick, it’s got good horizontal range, and it crosses up. This is a great thing to cancel out of and into a Forward Razor Kick(Same button too =D), because of it’s speed and range, it will help in locking them down. [ /\ j.forward xx Forward Razor Kick / ] is a very strong pressure technique, as it keeps you close and keeps them from jumping. Cross them up with a Razor Kick, then on the way down hit them in the back of the head with sj.forward. Fun fun fun.

j.jab - This basically has two purposes. One, is combos. Two, it’s a ‘great’ move to do High/Low mixup games after an Air Razor Kick. Explained in the Strats part, ect ect ect

c.jab - Decent range, very fast. I use it because it chains well to c.strong during pressure games. It’s not very useful for Mixup, but if you’re not trying to land a low hit(I.E., you’re going for a Walkin Throw psychout instead, or you’re zoning them), it’s great, because it chains into another c.jab/c.strong very well, or you can just jump after it and repeat the Razor Kick lockdown technique.

c.short - Good for Razor Kick mixup. sj.jab on the way down, c.short after you land, don’t sj.jab at all, do something else, ect ect. Also good for chaining into a launch. If you jump at them with j.forward, and they try to jump out(And air block it), do xx Razor Kick / c.short -> c.fierce. The c.short will catch them right as they land from the air block, and in general, works well.

c.fierce - It’s a decent launcher, but more importantly, it’s one of his few good Anti Air normals(s.strong is ok but less priority/height, s.roundhouse is good but only when they’re jumping shallow). Anti Air c.fierce(They block) xx Jab SB locks them back tight into the corner again if they try to jump out, very effective.

s.forward - It’s a good poke, when used with a dash. d.s.forward is another move(Like gambit’s d.s.forward) That can be used just to lock them in place. It’s quick, it keeps them from jumping, and if it hits, you can cancel into QCF+PP and carry it into the corner.

c.forward - A very good Dashing Poke. I often use it and blindly cancel into QCF+PP wether it connects or not, because the super lets you carry the fight closer to the corner(If they don’t pushblock, you go to the corner immediately… If they pushblock well, you don’t always get all the way there.) Also, it’s a very good followup to any hit that connects(Suprised that s.jab connected? -> c.forward xx QCF+PP )

Strats

Mixup -
Charlie’s Pressure/Mixup work very well together. His mixup game is based around simultaneous High/Low and Crossup techniques, based around his Air Razor Kick. When you do his Air Razor Kick, it does two things… Moves him slightly forward, and then carries him straight down faster than normal. The crossup game is in wether or not the Razor Kick moved you forward enough to be behind them now… For example… From about sweep distance, you can SJ towards them, go up about 3/4s screen, do a Roundhouse Razor Kick, then sj.roundhouse them in the head on the way down, on the other side. That’s basic. The way you get better at this mixup, is by doing the Razor Kick closer to the ground. You need to learn the exact point at which he recovers from the Razor Kick, and then only SJ as high as you have to so you can hit them on the way down. It gives them less time to react. Also, you need to learn exactly how far forward the Razor Kick carries you, and learn the distance at which you can play with Crossups/Non Crossups. This mixup game is helped a LOT if there is a Jab SB on the ground, though. That makes it safe(If they try to counter you, they get hit by the Jab SB), and it keeps them grounded. Remember, his j.forward is probably his best crossup.

:confused:

My post was too big… I’m gonna try cutting it in half…

23

Pressure -
There are three manuevers that, as a whole, keep almost any opponent in the corner. In no special order, they are [ c.roundhouse(Far) xx Jab SB ], [ j.forward(medium range) xx Forward Razor Kick ], [ c.fierce xx Short Somersault Shell ]. After the Jab SB technique, it’s best to Dash In and throw out a Blocked Combo into another Jab SB, ‘or’ jump in with the Razor Kick technique. After the Razor Kick technique, it’s best to land, do a few hits, then the c.roundhouse xx Jab SB. The Somersault technique is for when they try to jump the Jab SB(They will.) With the Razor Kick technique, you need to hit them with j.forward on the way up(Jump towards them), and immediately cancel to Forward Razor Kick. If they jump and don’t block(I.E., if they try to jump out), the two hits will combo, and you’ll probably be able to OTG. If they jump and ‘do’ block, hit them with c.short -> c.fierce when they land, there’s a good chance they won’t block it. If they do, wait a fraction of a second then cancel into Short Somersault, or wait until you recover and make them block some more. If they just sit there and block, they’ll block both hits and your position will be about the same, maybe a little bit closer. His Midscreen pressure is a bit different… It’s mostly about his Jab SB, and his SB Super. Dash in with quick attacks(c.short, s.forward, c.forward), and if you can, land a sweep. Knockdown is your friend. If you can do the Razor Kick OTG(Important, c.roundhouse xx SJ, Air Forward RK(OTG) / c.fierce /\ Free Combo), they’re eating a lot of damage. If not, it’s still an oppurtunity for two things… One, you can keep up the ground pressure, by throwing out a Jab SB as they get up and them pushing them back into it with Block Stun(Throwing out a second Jab SB right as they block the first = Great Lockdown), or jumping and crossing them up with Roundhouse Razor Kick(Land on the other side, c.short xx Super, ect ect)

That’s pretty Higher Charlie… Now for Cobmox! =O

Combos -

For combos, always try to use his Forward(MK) Razor Kick, for some reason it just does flat out more damage. Also, the Crossfire Blitz super(QCF+KK) does good damage, and you can OTG after it(It’s your friend). Anyways…

Your Beginners Charlie Air Combo, vs Anybody, in Corner -
c.fierce /\ sj.jab -> sj.short -> sj.strong -> sj.forward xx Forward RK, sj.roundhouse(OTG) / c.fierce /\ sj.jab -> sj.short -> sj.strong -> sj.fierce(FS) -> sj.roundhouse, sj.roundhouse

For advanced Charlie air combos, you ‘have’ to be able to connect a sj.jab after a Forward RK, ‘before’ they hit the ground… Like so…

c.fierce -> sj.jab -> sj.short(Small pause) -> sj.strong -> sj.forward xx Forward RK, sj.jab xx Forward RK / c.short(OTG) -> c.fierce /\ Air Combo

Those can be rolled… This can’t.

c.fierce(Small pause) /\ sj.jab -> sj.strong xx Forward RK, sj.jab / c.fierce /\ Air Combo

Now, for his Infinite. It works after any c.fierce that Juggles, such as the second c.fierce in the combo directly above, or, Throw -> c.fierce

[ c.fierce /\ sj.forward xx Forward RK, sj.jab / ] x N

Annnnd, his Second Infinite. This works after any throw, or generally, any j.jab vs Air juggle. I can’t really help you with the timing, it’s just… Tricky. Not hard to do, but for me, it’s hard to maintain.

[ /\ j.jab -> j.strong -> j.fierce -> j.roundhouse / ] x N

Now let’s add in Throws. I’ll use that Beginners Air Combo to show you…
c.fierce /\ sj.jab -> sj.short -> sj.strong -> sj.forward xx Forward RK, sj.roundhouse(OTG) / c.fierce /\ sj.jab -> sj.short -> sj.strong -> sj.fierce(FS) -> sj.roundhouse, sj.roundhouse / s.jab, Punch Throw, c.fierce /\ More Air Cobm0x! =O

That was called a ‘bounce’ throw. Normally, the s.jab would result in them falling down, doing a tiny bounce off the ground, then landing. You can grab them during that bounce, however. They, can’t grab you during that bounce.

In Corner - Punch Throw, Crossfire Blitz(QCF+KK), s.short(OTG) -> s.strong, Punch Throw, Crossfire Blitz

^___ This isn’t 100% reliable. Fast characters, like Wolv/Cammy, can actually hit you with a jab before they land from the s.strong, and even then, they ‘can’ throw you, so it’s risky when fighting characters with High Priority/Throw Combos(I.E., I wouldn’t do it vs Cyclops. HP Throw -> Inf, good game Charlie. I wouldn’t do it vs Chun, either. She’s fast, get’s hit higher than others by the s.strong, ‘and’ she has a high priority throw.) If you don’t trust your timing with it, or don’t want to do it, you can do s.short(OTG) -> s.forward, let them recover, and start your Pressure/Lockdown game all over again.

Midscreen Combos -

c.jab -> c.roundhouse xx SJ, Forward RK(OTG) / c.fierce /\ sj.jab -> sj.short -> sj.strong -> sj.forward xx Forward RK(If you’re near the corner, do sj.jab -> sj.short -> sj.strong -> sj.fierce(FS) -> sj.roundhouse, sj.roundhouse / s.jab, Throw instead)

c.fierce /\ sj.short(SJ As early as possible, and do this attack as early as possible. Then, do a medium pause) -> sj.strong xx Forward RK / c.forward xx Crossfire Blitz.

That one is a little tricky. I’m not sure whether it’s Match Worthy yet… It has to be a c.fierce on a grounded opponent. The idea of the early sj.short is to stop them from moving away(The launcher sends them up and ‘away’). Then, after a small pause, go into the strong xx RK, land and immediately OTG… You need to cancel into the blitz ASAP, because OTG -> Blitz is a difficult link, but it’s not impossible. Very good damage for a midscreen combo, though.

Also, of course, if you do the Sonic Boom super vs a Grounded opponent, you can dash in and follow it up… A note about the Sonic Boom super… There’s a 9 hit, 12 hit, and 15 hit version depending on how much you mash. You want 15 hit, and you don’t want 12 hit. 15 Hit recovers very quickly, 9 hit recovers pretty quickly, and 12 hit is difficult to combo after, because it recovers slower. A typical combo for when you land a c.forward somewhat near the corner is -

d.c.forward xx Sonic Blade(15 Hits), Wave dash to Corner, d.c.jab -> c.fierce /\ Air Combo

Ooookay… That’s Charlie stuff… =O

24

Old Match Vids

i have downloaded old xvsf match vids by ozy and bas from GCC efnet (IRC) (hmm? last yr), i’m not sure where u cud get em theze dayz?! :sad:

u really need help wit that one

25

Old Ozy vs Bas vids aren’t bad… A lot of Mag/Storm, though.

You could try talking to the source… Ozy’s AIM = Ozycha. English is limited, but workable. Not sure how often he’s on these days.

I can try to record some decent Ken/Gambit/Charlie/Whoever matches… I’ll see how it turns out…

26

I’m wondering if a different version of this combo is better?

HP throw -> s. Fierce XX qcf+pp -> option

options after super are:

-s. strong, HP throw, continue with whatever

-dash in, c. Fierce /\ AC

-dash in, delayed HP throw

I find the crossfire blitz has semi tight timing, this one is so easy, and still seems pretty good…

27

The problem with the Sonic Blade super(QCF+PP) is it does somewhat weak damage in the middle of a combo, especially as a juggle… I just happen to personally like the Blitz. I can give you a tip to connect it, though… Crossfire Blitz links well after a juggle s.roundhouse, on everybody but the Heavy 4(Jugg, Sabre, Mag, Gief), and his Punch Throw in the corner sets him up at the perfect distance for s.roundhouse xx Blitz. That might help…

But, it comes down to personal preference in a lot of ways. I’ve seen ‘really’ good Charlie’s that use the Somersault Justice a lot(QCB+KK Super), I hardly ever use it. Blitz -> OTG -> Throw fits my timing well, I can’t remember the last time I’ve been thrown out of it(I lied, I do do it on Cyclops, heh, but I would still suggest others don’t unless they’re utterly confident in their timing of the throw). Mag ROM infinite doesn’t.(I can’t do that for shit. =/)

A Sonic Blade juggle in the corner can open up a lot of things… But, you have to be careful how it connects. The distance you are away+The #Version of the super can change how the last hit of it affects them. Either they get bounced up, and you can continue, or they barely miss the last hit and recover. With a good setup, though, it works alright.

Combo Wise, for Charlie, I’d say the most important thing to work on is his Razor Kick links. It really is ‘very’ damaging, it’s one of the odd moves in XvsSF that isn’t affected by the Damage Buffer.(Moves like Razor Kick, Cannon Drill, Gief’s Kick Lariat, are all considered ‘Combo Finishers’, and as such, aren’t buffered. Being Specials, however, they often do much more than say, a j.roundhouse). For style, Razor Kicks open a lot of combo options too…

c.fierce /\ sj.jab -> sj.strong xx Forward RK, sj.jab / s.jab -> s.strong -> s.roundhouse xx Blitz

c.fierce /\ sj.jab -> sj.strong xx Forward RK, sj.jab / /\ j.strong -> j.fierce(FS) -> j.roundhouse / s.jab, Throw

c.fierce /\ sj.jab -> sj.strong xx Forward RK, sj.jab xx Forward RK / s.short(OTG) -> s.strong -> s.roundhouse xx Super

c.fierce /\ sj.jab -> sj.strong xx Forward RK, sj.jab / /\ Air Throw

c.fierce /\ sj.jab -> sj.strong xx Forward RK, sj.roundhouse(FS) / s.jab

Heh, Ect, ect, ect.

The fact is, Charlie can 100% on a combo in lots of ways, so it comes down to if you want to, and how you prefer to do it.

Also, I forgot to mention, Charlie has a relatively good Guard Break… A word about Guard Breaks

There’s only one point in a match where you can do a real Guard Break. XvsSF has a ‘glitch’(I call it a feature. =D) where if you do a pushblock in the air, and then hold up, you essentially do a Mid Air Super Jump after the pushblock. You have to be decently in the air(Not an inch off the ground), but what this means, is that you can Pushblock -> DSJ(Double Super Jump) out of almost all Guard Break attempts. Except for one point in the match…

After you kill one of their characters, the FS(Flying Screen) rules are imposed… That means no Specials/Supers/Dashes/SJs/ect. Those rules don’t wear off until their next character practically lands. That means they can’t pushblock. In the corner, with Charlie, when you kill their character, his guard break goes like this…

Walk all the way into the corner, take half a step back, then do s.strong(It should barely nick their foot, and they need to block it), s.strong(This one comes out right before they hit the ground, and they can’t block it). Rules state you can only do one action during a normal jump. This includes ‘Going Into Block Mode’, and when they come into the game, it counts as a normal jump.

Another Guard Break option, is to do j.strong right as they come in, then land and s.jab them before they hit the ground. The whole key to a guard break, is that the first hit has to be early and light enough(j.fierce will leave them in blockstun long enough for them to Pushblock at the end of their blockstun) to avoid being pushblocked, and the second hit has to hit them after they recover from Block Animation, and before they hit the ground(For example, you can do s.strong x 2 with Charlie, and they can block both hits… If there isn’t enough pause inbetween for them to ever leave the Block animation). Guard breaks in general are tight timing, but Charlie’s is one of the easier/more useful ones.

However, if GBs aren’t working for you, he still has two decent options after killing one of their characters…

1 - s.roundhouse xx Blitz them as they come in. At the right distance, stuffs almost all jumping attacks and if they block it, the blitz is pretty safe.

2 - Jump and air throw them

Another 50/50 guessing game. Storm and Dhalsim can Float/Drill out of it, though… But Sim players ‘often’ Drill when they’re coming in, so it’s good to wait and see what they do… If they drill, do Somersault Justice and hit them out of it… If they block on the way in, just wait for them to land and start Pressure. A crossfire blitz = Dead Dhalsim. Charlie can follow it up with a Dhalsim Combo, like so…

Blitz, s.short(OTG) -> s.strong, (Dhalsim teleports) s.jab, (Dhalsim teleports)Then, you can throw him as he’s recovering, or you can do a Dhalsim Inf, which is [s.strong x 5(He teleports inbetween each hit), s.jab ]

28

I got a question: What is the best way to do Mag’s ROM infinite in this game. I can do it in mvc2, but i cant do it for the life of my in this game.

Also: Are there any FSD’s for cyclops?

29

Hey, an arcade near me recently got this game. I have been playing it and so far I like it.

I am mostly using Ryu and Magneto, anyone got any tips for using them?

30

cyclops combos w/ FSD

on zangief: s.mp/\sj.lp,sj.lk,sj.mp,sj.mk,sj.hp,sj.hk(pause)sj.d.hk(otg)/c.lp,c.mp,c.mp(FSD),s.hkXXMega Optic Blast

i normally press c.mp more than twice until i get an FSD for the roundhouseXXMOB

31

practice it on bigger chars first like jugg and gief… you basically just sj.down+short -> sj.foward then wait a sec xx ad d/f ad.down+short -> ad.foward… once you get it down its very easy, then you can start changing it up and getting flashy with it like how you see in mvc2.

32

A couple of new matches are up at the DA site(http://addictz.darktemplarz.com), that me and a friend ran through… They were online matches, and the connection was ‘blah’, but theres some decent Ken material, and another match with a pretty nice example of Charlie Lockdown(Even though it says Charlie Rushdown. =o) There’s some sound problems toward the end of the matches though, delay. Dunno whats up with it. Nothing that’ll break your speakers though. :xeye:

Kayin -

Heh… I know a lot about Ryu too… I can writeup a runthrough of him later… Right now, no can do, maybe tomorrow.

33

i’ve watched some of the matches (sid vs shadow, sid vs liquidmetal), and i must say that after reading most of the posts, i feel like playing this game again (at least for fun).

i think i’m gonna have a lot of Wolverine/Cyclops infinite junkies to deal with. any general advice (ie using any char) on how to fight those guys off? any tactics specific to Charlie/Gambit as well would be good :slight_smile:

PS.
i jsut watched some of the Prozac `Nation vs loc vids. nice :slight_smile:

34

Have some new material, with a lot more solid gameplay, with T-Kimura. Still have to pick which ones, capture it, host it, ect ect. It can be frustrating(An Input Replay is essentially a big A Track tape. =/ Add in ~30-50 matches, and ouch. ) Any requests for characters before I do?(I’ll probably do it tomorrow night. Working most of tomorrow.)

Wolv Inf junkies aren’t that big of a threat… You just have to be really good at blocking, heh.(Unless you meet one that can fake you out by j.dwn.forward -> j.fierce(Wiff) / c.short. That’s a bitch.) With wolv, you want to pushblock a ‘lot’. It really helps to be able to time your pushblocks too… That way, do them ASAP, and it’ll help keep you out of the corner. Also, if he’s a ground pixie(Rarely jumps, whores c.short), just try to stay in the air and avoid his s.roundhouse. s.roundhouse is his ‘only’ formidable, nevermind useful, AA, and it doesn’t have all that much priority.

Cyc can be trickier. Cyc wins most Defense vs Defense contests, so you pretty much have to go at him. It all depends on if he’s a scrub, or a serious player just using cyc like a whore. Either way, you want to avoid the Fierce Punch throw in the corner. If you can, stay on him, but just far enough away to bait him into a s.fierce(Noob cycs love going for the HP throw.) You want to sit at about c.jab range. Gambit/Charlie can both bait him into it by jumping in on him, then landing and jumping again.(Most noob cycs will try to throw you when you land.) Then, punish their s.fierce recovery with a jump in - > combo. If they don’t s.fierce, than gambit can just throw out his j.fierce -> j.roundhouse / Ground chain anyway… With charlie, be careful. The safe way to go is to do his Short Razor Kick(His Short RK has a huge Block Pushback. If he blocks it, you’ll be safe.) You can try j.roundhouse xx Forward/Roundhouse RK, into c.short, but it’s risky. Other than his HP Throw, he shouldn’t be able to land that inf on you. Stick to the ground if you can, when not in the corner, as to avoid spammed launchers, and just watch out for Random Mega Optic Blast.

If he’s an expert player, it’ll be a lot harder. Cyc is ‘top tier’. You’ll want to avoid his c.forward, so be careful with jumpins altogether… Chances are, he’ll be playing keepaway, and the only real advice I can give you would have to be in depth character matchups.

Charlie vs Cyc

Most of this fight will take place out of the corner, if the Cyc player is familiar with Charlie. He can Double Jump/SJ his way out of your traps, and aside from a /\ sj.strong xx RK, it’s tough to stop that… You best bet is playing mixup and baiting a c.forward. Either cross him up(Careful how you do it. I’d suggest an early Roundhouse RK, which ‘doesn’t’ cross them up, then a late Forward RK that puts you behind them, into sj.jab ) and go for a combo, or see if you can block the launcher, land, and Sonic Blade Super/Sweep -> OTG link. Overall, you’re stronger on the ground. You’ve got better pokes, superior ground supers, and the SB security(Don’t be predictable with your SBs. He’ll just Optic Blast you out of it.) Use Short Somersault more than usual, while he’s in the air, to make him block and stuff his DJs/Bring him back down. You’ll need High Anti Air techniques, like sj.strong xx RK(SJ.strong them on the way up[SJ.short -> strong works too, sometimes better], and chain it into Roundhouse or Razor Kick). While he’s on the ground, rush him with c.short and Air RKs.

Gambit vs Cyc

Cyc doesn’t exactly overpower Gambit. You’ve got a better ground game, you can stuff his j.roundhouse keepaway(sj.strong beats it out, every time), his j.fierce is one of the few Air vs Ground normals that makes cyc second guess his c.forward, and you can still throw safe Air Cards at him(3/4-Full screen, just above the range of his MoB Super, is where you want to throw them from). The best situation really, is to be midscreen and playing with his Knockdown -> d.c.short/Wave Dash Throw. In the corner, abuse the Jab Cajun Slash and d.c.short/forward. Typically, Gambit Rushdown goes along with the Wave Dash Throw(Gambit’s ‘really’ well suited for it). In the corner, with cyc, you of course want to be careful with that. Shallow j.fierce is safer.

And, as if that wasn’t enough, I feel like running through Ryu now… =O

35

Ryu :karate:

Ryu is basically Rushdown. The keys are using the right moves(A lot of his moves have very good frame advantage[You recover from hit animation before they recover from blockstun]), being good with FB Zoning, Throws, and his combos.

Rushdown Moves - Jabs, c.short, c.strong, hopkick[s.twd.forward], c.roundhouse, j.roundhouse, Air Hurricane

Jabs - All shoto jabs(And Charlie) have good frame advantage. This means it’s a good pressure move. This move basically has two purposes. 1.) Psych Setup for his throw. Threaten them with a jab, two, three, then throw. Or, threaten them with it, then sweep xx Safe Special Move(Or if the sweep lands, Hurricane Super) 2.) Good priority, high speed start to his combos.

c.short - Key to the rushdown, often following his jabs. It’s basically your mixup tool, and it’s what you should use to keep them grounded. This threat is what keeps them from jumping away(That, and the fact that they keep having to block d.s/c.jabs)

c.strong - Longer range, so it’s useful if you’re too far away for a jab. Also, this is what you want to setup your hopkick with.

Hopkick - This is the most important part of his rushdown. It pulls you forward, ‘and’ it has frame advantage. It REALLY helps to learn the timing for a s.jab after this hopkick(As in, to make the s.jab combo), but it’s not 100% neccessary. Follow up the hopkick with Jabs, generally, back into the pressure/mixup game.(A lot of new Ryu Players do Hopkick -> Hopkick -> Hopkick, ect ect. Not a very good idea. Sure, it has frame advantage, but not ‘that’ much.)

c.roundhouse - Useful to tag on the end of a blocked chain and cancel it into a FB/Short Hurricane Kick. Also a useful tool combo wise, once you know yet another tricky Ryu link. c.roundhouse, s.short(OTG) works, and it’s match worthy, so it helps to know that, too. You can do a lot with a s.short OTG with Ryu, but check Combos for that. Another option is to follow it up with the Hurricane Super. However, don’t cancel into the super ASAP(They’ll have time to roll in response to you activating the super). Pause for a second, then cancel into it.(They should already be laid out on the ground) This way, they have to roll before the super, and can’t roll in response.

j.roundhouse - Ryu’s j.roundhouse has good air vs ground priority, and it’s best used Shallow(This is because you can cancel it into Hurricane Kick, which carries him forward anyway) However, don’t abuse it, because most good Anti Air can beat it out. It’s a decent crossup however(Much like his j.forward), so it makes for a good followup to a Sweep, into his pressure/rushdown.

Air Hurricane Kick(HK) - You’ve got two versions worthy of note. Roundhouse, and Forward. His Forward HK sends them straight down. If used vs a Grounded Opponent, it bounces them up in the air, so you can do Forward HK / /\ Air Throw. However, use it sparingly, because it’s very counterable. His Roundhouse HK sends them flying away. This is a free combo in the corner, and away from the corner, it’s a free ticket to Dash Jump at them, and now you’re both in the corner. There ‘is’ something else you can do, but it requires tight timing… You can do Air Roundhouse HK / SJ /\ Beam Super. With a sharp Tiger Knee Beam, you can catch Mid - Light opponents(Anyone as light as ~Cyc)

Zoning Moves - Air Hadouken, Jab DP, j.fierce

Air Hadouken - This is basically Ryu’s Sonic Boom. It’s also what you’ll need to keep them on the ground. The ‘basic’ series is SJ, Jab Hadouken close to the ground, land, Dash jump, Rush down. Of course, you don’t want to be predictable. Multiple Air Hadoukens, mixing in Ground Jab Hadoukens in place of the air ones, and Wave Dashing instead of dash jumping, ect ect, are all ways to mix it up.

Jab DP - Another tool to keep them out of the air. Best used sparingly, as unlike Ken, Ryu’s rushdown game isn’t helped very much by his Jab DP. However, if they’re trying to avoid you by taking to the air, Air FBs + Jab DP is the best way bring them down. If a Jab DP connects, dash in and start up the pressure/rushdown.

j.fierce - Yet ‘another’ Vs Air move. Ryu is loaded with them. His j.fierce has very strong air vs air priority, and beats out most air vs air. If they jump, j.fierce xx Roundhouse Hurricane Kick is a ‘very’ solid option. Either it connects, and you both go flying into the corner(Possible combo, if you’re close enough to the corner), or they block it, you get serious frame advantage, and either land and Launch/Air Throw/Ground Throw/Rushdown/Do it again, ect ect.

Techniques

Rushdown -
d.c.jab is your best friend. The basic idea is d.c.jab -> c.strong -> hopkick, d.c.jab -> c.short -> c.strong -> hopkick, s.jab -> c.short -> c.roundhouse, ect ect. The hopkick is basically what ties together the pressure strings, and the d.c.jab is what gets you in, and gets it started. If you’ve got the timing down, once a hit lands, you can combo into a launch with the hopkick, s.jab link. If you don’t have the timing down, then you can combo into a sweep, into the s.short(OTG) link. If you don’t have ‘that’ timing down, you can pray for a deep jab to connect, and go right into launch, or, you can mix them up with throws. After a hopkick, you can throw. After a jab, you can throw. You can give them a little space, wait for them to jump, then jump and air throw them… Or, jump and j.fierce -> Roundhouse HK. If it connects, free corner combo. If it doesn’t, they land, Throw. Ect, ect, ect. Ryu is ‘big’ on Throws in XvsSF.

Air Control -
Ryu’s whole rushdown game depends on them being on the ground. To aid in that, you can use his Air Jab Hadouken, his powerful Air vs Air j.fierce, or his Jab DPs. He has a bit of a tough time with SJ Keepaway, though(I.E., Cyclops doing SJ -> Double Jump -> j.roundhouse all day), and Storm keepaway, but he owns the Normal Jump zone for free. j.fierce xx Roundhouse HK all day if they try to question that. This is one reason that, IMO, Ryu dominates Sabretooth, with ease.(Seems to be one of the most lopsided matchups in the game)

Tiger Knee Shinkuu Hadouken -
Ryu’s Beam Super comes out much faster in the air(Case in point, you can’t link a standing super after a s.strong. But, you have time to cancel it into SJ, do it in the air, and ‘still’ combo it.) I’d suggest getting the timing for it down, and being able to do it as low as possible(Optimally, you want it to hit them even if they’re crouching. But being able to hit a standing opponent is ussually good enough.) This is almost neccessary for fighting Dhalsim, as it’s Ryu’s best counter to a Drill. It’s also the best FB/Hypergrav/Hail Storm/Anything Else counter he has.

Combos!

Ryu has a billion combos. 5 infinites, which I’ll list…

In corner, as a juggle -
[ /\ j.jab -> j.up.forward -> j.up.roundhouse / ]

In corner, as a juggle -
[ s.jab -> s.strong xx Short Hurricane Kick(One hit) ]

Anywhere, vs Grounded Opponent -
[ s.jab -> c.strong -> s.twd.forward(hopkick) ]

In corner, as a juggle, during FS -
[ s.jab -> c.strong ]

In corner, as a juggle, during FS -
[ s.jab -> s.strong -> s.forward(One hit) -> s.fierce -> s.roundhouse ]

Shorter version of Inf above -
[ s.jab -> s.strong -> s.roundhouse ]

But, blah on Infinites. Here’s the fun stuff…

B&B Combos(Basic, good stuff)

This is your basic, midscreen launch combo -
c.fierce /\ sj.up.roundhouse xx Beam Super

This one is the basic, midscreen painful Ryu combo. As usual, chock full of throws.
Punch throw, s.short(OTG) -> Hopkick, /\ Air throw, Shinkuu Hadouken

This one is a combo that can take them into the corner from ‘really’ far away.
c.fierce /(SJ Towards them, and hold towards them) sj.jab -> sj.short(Slight pause) -> sj.strong(One hit) xx Roundhouse Hurricane Kick(One hit) / s.short(OTG) -> Hopkick, /\ Air Throw -> More Combo.

This, is the basic Corner Combo -
c.fierce /\ sj.jab -> sj.short -> sj.up.forward -> sj.up.roundhouse(FS), sj.fierce -> sj.up.roundhouse / FS Ground Combo

Advanced Combos

Another option midscreen, after a launch, goes like this… The Forward Hurricane Kick is the one that sends them straight down… The key to this combo is to space it out ‘very’ slowly, so that you’ve already started falling a bit before you do the sj.forward(Not sj.up.forward, just sj.forward, the normal air move which knocks them down a little) xx HK, land, and OTG.

c.fierce /\ sj.jab -> sj.short -> sj.forward xx Forward Hurricane Kick / s.short(OTG) -> Hopkick /\ Air Throw

Ryu has ‘insane’ options in the corner… One of them involves his glitchy Air Throw. After his air throw, if you hold Up, Ryu DSJs(Double Super Jump). Ryu’s air throw naturally throws them up. So, you can actually continue the combo this way… I’ll list some options

c.fierce /\ sj.jab -> sj.short -> sj.up.forward, Air Throw, DSJ /\ sj.jab -> sj.strong(One hit) -> sj.up.forward, Air Throw, DSJ /\ sj.jab -> sj.short -> sj.up.forward -> sj.up.roundhouse, sj.forward -> sj.fierce(Slight pause) -> sj.roundhouse
(Yes, the above combo goes very far Off the Screen. You have to memorize the timing.)

c.fierce /\ sj.jab -> sj.short -> sj.up.forward, Air Throw, DSJ /\ sj.jab -> sj.short -> sj.up.forward -> sj.up.roundhouse, sj.forward, Air Throw(You air throw them on the way down) out of corner, Beam Super
(The above combo goes off the screen, but not far)

c.fierce /\ sj.jab -> sj.short -> sj.up.forward, Air Throw, DSJ /\ Air Throw(DSJ Up/Towards them, and air throw them again on the way by), DSJ /\ Air combo

Ryu also has a strong FS Juggle game, with lots of ways to reset into his throws/airthrows. Some options…

c.fierce /\ sj.jab -> sj.short -> sj.up.forward -> sj.up.roundhouse, sj.fierce -> sj.up.roundhouse / s.jab -> c.strong, Air throw

c.fierce /\ sj.jab -> sj.short -> sj.up.forward -> sj.up.roundhouse, sj.fierce -> sj.up.roundhouse / s.jab -> s.strong -> s.roundhouse, Air throw

c.fierce /\ sj.jab -> sj.short -> sj.up.forward -> sj.up.roundhouse, sj.fierce -> sj.up.roundhouse / s.jab, Throw

Also, there’s a rule in XvsSF, where you can only do 2 throws in one ‘Combo’(It doesn’t matter if it adds to the Hit Count, the game is very liberal with what it calls a combo. They have to recover for a decent amount of time). There’s a way around this with Ryu. You make them block a jab. It goes like…

c.fierce /\ sj.jab -> sj.short -> sj.up.forward -> sj.up.roundhouse, sj.fierce -> sj.up.roundhouse / s.jab -> s.strong -> s.roundhouse, s.jab, Throw

In the above combo, you ‘are’ able to combo a s.jab after the s.roundhouse, but you don’t want to. If they block it, and you throw them when they land, the game counts it as a whole new combo. It resets the One OTG Per Combo rule, the 2 Throws Per Combo rule, ect ect.

Overall, with such powerful combo basics(Air Throw/sj.up.roundhouse -> Beam Super ; His sj.up.roundhouse juggles ; DSJ Combos), and throw resets, Ryu combos are practically limitless.

36

Oh yeah… New Match Videos up at http://addictz.darktemplarz.com

The new ones are quite a bit more heated… Some good Gief/Charlie/Gambit/Mag/Ryu, ect ect… However, a word…

They were all done online, and there ‘was’ lag and other such problems during the matches(Yeah, and we still did some crazy stuff), the reason you can’t see it in the videos, is because only the Input was recorded. Later, the input was replayed, and captured to a video format.

Also, there’s still a sound problem, but it’s still not bad stuff.

Steve walks warily down the street, with the brim pulled way down low.

P.S.: Free comb0s to whoever gets the easy song reference… =o

37

Still taking character match requests? Dhalsim, provided it’s not vs Storm or Magneto :bgrin:

And it’s from Another One Bites the Dust
…(thnx google)

38

Anyone down for some xvssf or mvc1 today? Hit me up on aim: feartetsuo
rogue/cyc!!!

39

Prozac you are truly a GOD for all of that Ryu info!

40

What do you mean by Dhalsim Match requests… How you would use Dhalsim vs other characters? How you would Fight dhalsim? How you would use Dhalsim in general? I don’t really know a whole lot about using Dhalsim… I’m decent with him, and I know a few tricks, but my techniques are a lot simpler than his potential. T-Kimura probably knows more Dhal stuff.

No Problem about the Ryu stuff, though. Share the love. =O