Dude, you’re mad because the cameraman panned by and showed some hot chicks. You want to get mad about that start writing letters to every news station, every TV show, every magazine (including women’s), hell, everything.
I think someone above mentioned 2 girls that were almost at that level (if not already there). I’m just saying there will be a lot less per capita.
The bodies of men who lift weights and exercise are wired differently from the bodies of men who eat Cheetos and drink pure lard. Why can’t anyone accept that?
In general, brains are a lot more elastic and susceptible to “Nuture” (environment and upbringing) than bodies, where Nature (genetics and biology) ensures that men will pretty much always have more muscle mass. This has been shown in a multitude of scientific studies - for instance, the brain of someone who was born normal, but later suffers a traumatic brain injury can “rewire” itself over time, “jury-rigging” parts that typically function in task A to perform task B. Children who are raised in an abusive enviornment are more likely to become abusers than identical twins who are placed in ideal foster homes. The list goes on and on.
Genetics and biology certainly do play a part in mental development, but to say women’s brains are utterly incapable of being as competitive as male brains is just sorta ignorant. If that were the case, then people would be completely incapable of forming new habits or changing old ones, which is simply not the case.
The general attitude towards shitty players is hostile. That applies equally whether you’re a man, a woman, or Tatsu (hurr). It doesn’t matter if it’s some 13 year old boy spamming fierce dragon punches on XBL or a 20 year old girl throwing out random full-screen ultras.
Now, let’s break this down a little bit. You’re sorta right, inasmuch as it probably does have a greater chance at repelling women than it does men, because there are a greater percentage of men who are mentally wired to shrug off trash talk than there are women, but like I say above, that’s more just a result of the societal norms and mores than pure biology. Praise a baby girl and dote on her when she gets all tough, and call her a simpering crybaby fairy and shun her when she starts getting defeatist, and she’ll end up just as competitive as most boys. And see below for why it ultimately doesn’t really matter anyway.
Do you believe men should choose a ~lady~'s character for her? Is it okay to wear a hat if you’re playing a ~lady~? What are your opinions on Juicebox’s Ultra Dance vis-a-vis the ~feminine dynamic~?
The girls who are more mentally geared towards competition - the ones everyone wants to attract - find this archaic posturing far, far more creepy and repulsive - and hence even more intimidating, in a way - than being trash-talked. It’s condescending and patronizing, and makes everything awkward as hell.
Imagine if Yipes and Sanford were telling the other black Marvel players to “talk white” (or, to use a slightly less offensive term, “code-switch”) around white players, or if Wong and Marn decided to wear hip hop shorts and sideways hats in an effort to not alienate black SF4 players - or, to move away from race, imagine if Ricky Ortiz and Alex Valle were telling the rest of the west coast players to be mindful of their "hella"s and "brah"s around east coast players.
A, that shit is fake and creepy, B, it’s based on completely superficial and very ignorant notions of race and culture.
What you’re advocating is just as “errr” for girls who want to kick ass as the stuff I mentioned is for white players or black players or east coast players or west coast players (or stick players or pad players or rushdown/offensive players or turtling/defensive players).
Girls who want to compete are there to kick ass and have fun, not sip tea and LARP as Scarlett O’Hara.
So you lose, say, 70% of (American) women right off the bat because they’re just not personally wired to compete (just like the, just pulling numbers out of my ass here, but let’s just say 30% of guys who aren’t wired to compete). Those players may be more likely to get involved in the scene if it’s completely sanitized to their personal tastes (just like how many fighting game fans would be more likely to play chess if it was “filthified” to their personal tastes), but they’re complete and utter trash, the ones who are most likely to have silly notions about throws being cheap and crap like that, so who the fuck wants them? The scene really isn’t going to benefit from their inclusion, just like how the NBA isn’t going to benefit if a bunch of 5’6 200lb nerds start playing basketball in college.
Then, on top of that you alienate a good percentage of the rest with this creepy aspergic southern charm horseshit.
What’s left is AAA Kayene and some chick who talks about bra-burning when she still needs a Training Pants Invitational to keep her from completely embarrassing herself when she decides to use Gouken as O. Sagat.
I agree
I never said that. Show me where. I’ve noticed people tend to read what they want to read instead of what was actually typed. Talk about straw man. I never meant to imply women are inferior, just different. But of COURSE they can become great SF players since there are already a couple that can hang with the big boys.
edit: Zlatko’s right, this argument is done. Plus, I’m tired of having to explain myself for shit I didn’t say.
I was checking out Evo pics and found these from the womens’ tourney:
“Good game. BTW, your Bison costume kinda sucks.”
“WTF, bitch?! Your skank costume sucks”
“You just mad cuz I sent you to the losers bracket.”
“THIS PLACE SHALL BECOME YOUR GRAVE”
Seriously, though. What happened here?
This is what I was referring to earlier about Sherry being a bad light on the fight game community and especially to the womens part of it. Not only is she a major ditts and has idiotic commentary she goes and makes beef with other players.
What happened there is the Bipson girl offered a hand shake after the match, Sherry just straight up goes past her hand to unplug her stick and continue to ignore her on purpose. The reason apparently is NorCal SoCal rivalry bull crap or something, but there’s NO reason why you should disrespect someone who is showing YOU respect by offering a good game hand shake—and the Bipson girl is the one who lost there if I’m not mistaken, yet here’s Sherry acting like her shit don’t stink.
Sherry makes Scumbag’s rage look cool.
Also to the people constantly derailing the damn thread—take it to PMs. This isn’t a damn biology or sociology forum for you to try and talk smart about men and women contrasts/comparisons. Stick to the topic of the contrast/comparison in relation to Evo and women players.
If you feel so strongly about it go blog about it, but keep it the hell out of here, because both sides of those kinds of arguments sound like idiots.
All I gotta say is that if there’s a women’s tournament next year, no one’s going to complain. Just like no one complained about evo going to vegas or switching to consoles.
Shoutouts to Doctor Cuss for knowing what the hell he is talking about BTW.
if a woman were to exercise enough/take hormones to reach the testosterone levels of a man, she would have a chance playing SF.
testosterone is a very important chemical when it comes to competition. if you have low T, you’re more likely to watch others play & be scared/nervous if you get coerced into playing yourself. if you have high T, you’re going to want to train indefinitely to be the best in the world.
this is why not many women play SF, or do anything competitive at all (that takes real effort - women do get competitive in terms of dressing up/pursuing a man, but they use almost all passive methods of doing so).
if you were to take some testosterone-blocking drug, you would become bad at Street Fighter. you would lose your “warrior spirit” and fuck up big time in almost every clutch situation.
Yeah when I was there I was supporting the Bison player because she was in a sea of Chun-Lis and that matchup is excruciating for Bison. So I was kind of trash talking the other chick and people were looking at me like I just lit some fires on the carpet so I guess she was popular or something.
You gotta respect someone who knows they’re going to be fighting the Chun-Li Sea and still picks the Psycho Power. Props to her gameplay and the costume. [media=youtube]p0j0lO7uQBo"[/media]
That is not what happened. Bison was talking mad shit throughout the match. There’s nothing wrong with that: a little shit talk to get into your opponent’s head is part of our (ahem) “grand” culture. The talk continued even after Shery lost to the point where she eventually lost her temper and things got heated. She shouldn’t have lost her temper, but she was provoked… a lot.
hey guys this thread isn’t about biology or sociology forum it’s about your thoughts on women in a social event typically dominated by men, please take your smart man talk the hell elsewhere so we can discuss which characters, er players, we’d want to have irl sex w/. nerds… nerd idiots… you’re probably the same idiots who discuss zoning and nerd shit like foot-fetishes in the ken forum… nerds! ugh!
Show me where I was saying “if you, SRK forums poster Tanner, say that, then you’re ignorant, just like SRK forums poster Tanner who said exactly that”.
People often use “you” as the rhetorical “[any]one”. But then, they tend to read what they want to read…
yo guys gotta go ride my motorcycle w/ my girlfriend (shes blond and 36c), cya thread losers~
women suck at games it’s like get back to the kitchen am i right or wha
please Dont Troll or make Cuss’s on the interrnet. sexistic Pig, ugh…
My mistake. My info came from what I read on the Evo thread over on NeoGaf. I didn’t bother to recheck it but thanks for clearing that up. Then my apologies to thinking Sherry was the instigator of that mess. Bipson girl already was getting a lot of attention for her outfit but apparently making a scene on top of that is what she felt she needed to do to get recognized—instead of relying on her playing skills. Shit’s weak.
Also @ Doctor Cuss. Wow you are a sad troll. If you haven’t got something constructive to post about the topic started in my first post----then don’t post in here. If you feel so compelled to spew out shit by typing then start a blog or open up a notepad on your desktop and go bananas.
Mods may as well lock this topic because I don’t think it’s salvageable at this point. Shout outs to the ladies who came out to Evo and brought game. Here’s hoping you keep stepping it up and put the naysayers (myself a bit included) to shame next year.
Replying to someone is a troll? You’re free to raise arguments against what I posted, but you’d be arguing against decades of scientific studies. Maybe you’re flipping out over the stuff I posted to lqstuart, but holy lord, man, get some fucking perspective. People can be both serious in one post and joking in another, I know this sounds crazy but it’s true! Like how sometimes Akuma rushes down and sometimes he plays keepaway!
Sorry that conversations tend to evolve, but if you’re the one pointing out the gender skill gap in your own fucking OP, you really shouldn’t be sperging out when people - gasp - start talking about the gender skill gap!
No, you’re not right, neither funny.
No, I’m not. But even if I was, EVERYTHING’S FUCKED SO LET’S NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ONE INSTANCE OF THE PROBLEM wouldn’t be an argument.
Aha, it’s been awhile since I’ve been on this forum. Even longer since I actually played fighting games.
I had a few friends that went to Evo this year (well, i guess I do every year, but I mean local people this time that I know a bit better–lol I wonder if Arturo will read this) so I figured I’d check out the stream.
At first the Women’s Invitational seemed like it could be a bad idea, but I wanted to give it a shot anyway. I watched the stream on and off over the 3 days, the WI was one of the events I wanted to check out however.
There’s a lot of white knighting here, the virgin white knights will always hate my guts so I don’t even care what they think of what I’ll write here.
The girls definitely aren’t high level right now, but that in itself doesn’t mean much. They will probably get better. However there is definitely a ceiling for most women. There will be outliers here and there, but even they will have virtually no chance of ever actually winning evo, or even placing in the top 8 most likely. Women simply do not reach the highest level of anything, regardless of physical differences. They can reach a very high level, but at Evo we are talking about the highest level. For the most part, the best artists, directors, musicians, chess players, authors, businessmen, doctors, attorneys and chefs are male. The top 5 or so are pretty much guaranteed to be. I’m not sure where the cutoff is, but these are non-physical fields that have had a lot of time to develop and they simply don’t have women at the top levels.
The level now is lower than it can be however. And if you place 8th in the world, that’s still incredibly good. That still might be higher than it is possible, but who knows. What rank is the highest ranked female chess player in the world? Female poker player? Those would be good indications as to where a woman can get to.
Years ago, back when most of us couldn’t even reach an arcade stick, the EC sucked. I mean we got pwned for free. Actually that was a very long time of getting crushed. However, eventually that changed, the EC became very competitive and even began to dominate. Think of the Women’s pool right now as another coast in its infancy. It’ll get better.
In terms of welcoming to the community and “male dominated” lol give me a fucking break. Any half decent looking woman, and hell, even most of the unattractive ones honestly, can walk into any room full of nerds, which is what the fighting game community is (hell I’m a nerd too, it’s what we are), and people will be the opposite of hostile. Take it out of nerddom, and it STILL happens. The “male dominated” thing is just a myth white knights like to make up, probably because they have never been outside anywhere, ever. Anybody that has knows that virtually the only way a female will get any hate is if she is actively a bitch and causes problems for people. And EVEN THEN if she is hot most men will ignore that for a looooooooong time. And “hot” mostly depends on what other women are around, if she’s the only one around she is almost guaranteed to be considered hot.
Being a guy against a girl is generally a bad position though, Keits is very right. Gender roles and social conditioning don’t just work on women, they also have an effect on men, and yes women do propagate that mentality that Keits mentioned. That is something that will need to go at some point. It’ll be a great step forward for both sexes actually, and could only help the community. This one will be REALLY tough to shake off in the US though, because it runs very deep.
I think it’s a good idea to have this tournament and I think it should stay at least for next year if not longer. But to inkblot, ponder and the rest of you guys, I do have a suggestion. Please run this tourney earlier. Sticking it between the Finals for other games is a bad idea, especially for this same game, because the level of play really is not there and it looks worse comparatively. I believe this tournament would have been received far better if it was in fact the first SSFIV event. Have it kick off Evo. Then follow the finalists/winner in pool play, and maybe even mention her ranking from the WI Tourney. Maybe it doesn’t have to kick off Evo, but I still think it should not be on the Finals day. I also think it might not be a bad idea to have 2 female commentators, and not have the male ones at all. Just prep the girls beforehand, use a 4 person booth if needed. This isn’t necessary, but I think it’d be a good idea and could help in terms of exposure and media coverage.
I think Sheri is a very good representative of the female fighting game community. She seems to have presence/charisma, she knows the players, she comes off as a nice person, and she is fairly attractive. The issue with the other player has already been covered, and it seems she was well within her rights for her reaction.
In terms of reactions towards the female players, I believe the majority of the playerbase and spectators are supportive. The crowd seemed to pull for the girls. The play was not very good, but I felt burnyourbra definitely had some support and had a good showing, and kayane already has a following.
The WI is getting way too much hate from white knights and some females that are too insecure. I see this type of thing a lot from minorities too, who are victims of discrimination but then also feel every positive opportunity they get is a handout. Sometimes you need a helping hand to move things along. This is a good concept, and while I don’t in general really give a damn about “getting women involved” it makes total sense for Mr. Wizard and the Cannons, Seth as well, to grow the community and create this environment. I don’t understand how anybody that truly cares for the scene and wants SF and Evo to grow bigger (I don’t so much since I’m old now and know it’s not something that I’d ever be a part of now again, or at all really) could possible hate this so much and constantly whine and complain. You guys should instead be giving these dudes props for the concept, and the girls for competing in it.
If anyone else wants to bring inappropriate/sexual remarks to this thread.
Go ahead. I’ll be glad take you off the forums.
Subjective, Subjective, Subjective, Chess is rather geeky nowadays and it’s a pretty manly game, Subjective, the rest are right I guess.
