Maybe for you, but I’ve heard zero rumblings about whether HDR should be played in classic mode or remixed mode. Most of the ST diehards refuse to acknowledge that classic mode is a suitable substitute for arcade ST. Really, if you are going to feature HDR, it would be fairly ludicrous to force classic mode.
to tell you the truth out of all the tourneys at evo this year hdr was the smoothes running tourney out of all of them. the only upset was that there were changes that i was not aware of like the time it was suppose to be held, but overall i dont see y next year they wont have hdr.
I meant 16 years of ST which came out in 1994 if I remember correctly. But yes 18 years of SF2.
As far as HDR being at Evo next year, I talked to inkblot himself on IRC who said that they are looking to do some major “restructuring” of Evo next year. 2000+ players are expected again for Super SF4 and possibly a simliar number for MvC3 if the prediciton holds true. If the next highest number of entrants for HDR and other games isn’t even close to 1000 (which is still only half of what the other 2 games are drawing), can you really expect Evo to keep these games on? Fighting games are coming of age in the new decade and Evo has to do so as well.
Don’t get me wrong, I was really mad and defensive when Inklbot said this, but I though about what he said over the next day and realized how right he was. 18 years of sf2, 10 years of some version of SF2 being at B/Evo tournaments? I don’t think anyone could have predicted that.
No one is entitled to have their game at Evo. No one. If you can’t compete with the newer games that draw much larger numbers of entrants, then your game won’t be there. It’s not whether you deserve to have your game there or how dedicated your small community is. Everything changes.
And if you think not having HDR at evo is bad, imagine how the Melty Blood players must feel working their asses off every single year trying to get MB to Evo, finally getting it featured this year and now realizing that their game is the first game on the list to get taken off Evolution’s game list next year.
Stop bitching. It could be worse.
Fyi, pretty sure SF4 had about 1600 entrants, not 2000+.
As much as I love ST (pats heart 3x) ,and will always prefer ST. I really think we need to stop the HDR v. ST debate. It is never going to end. I see it just about to sprout up and ruin another thread AGAIN.
Anyway you cut your going to alienate a player base. IMHO, if you go back to ST, you’ll lose many HDR players (who have done a lot to keep the scene alive). If we stay with HDR we already know the consequence. We’ve already aliened many of the ST players, but at least we know where HDR stands. It was the second most played game at EVO 09/10, period. Its popularity and community support is voiced in the number of entrees. With MVC3 coming out, I don’t think HDR will hold the 2nd spot next year after SSF4. But, I can still see it in the 3rd spot.
I think the standard has been set: HDR, PS3, 16:9, T3. It disrupts the scene the least and it’s what (at least as it seems) most people are currently accustom to in the today’s tournament environment.
I’ll support whatever is agreed upon, but I think some base line needs to be created, or you all will slowly push people away. I was an avid ST Player and I played all the time. I defended ST during the HDR switch and cursed HDR for a long time. I realized that my mentality was only putting negative energy out there and did nothing to help the scene. My realization was confirmed when Wizard said, it?s HDR or NO SF2 game at Evo. That made my choice to support HDR pretty simple.
After that point, I played HDR and grew to really enjoy it as its own game. Sure, there are complaints about it, but no game is perfect. I still love ST more (personal preference). But, I’ll play HDR without question to support the scene. However, all this continued internal fighting has started to really make the SF2 scene no fun for me. To the point where I play SSF4 more than anything else right now. The rule of large numbers would state I am not alone in that sentiment.
So, I toss that idea out there. With so many new games on the horizon the more you all fight, the less popular HDR is going to become, and you all (the biggest fans and SF2 holdouts) will be the ones to hurt HDR.
First off, let me say that from what I’ve seen, 4:3 outnumbers 16:9 in tourneys by a ~4-1 ratio nationwide. I can understand Evo using 16:9 this year as a nod to the plentiful SoCal HDR players who have really supported the game most this past year; but everywhere else, that’s not how the aspect ratio is set up. And it was bizarre seeing HDR in 16:9 at Evo when TVC and MVC2 players all agreed to stick to 4:3 and nobody complained.
As for PS3 vs. 360, I would really appreciate if anybody with the capability to perform input lag tests (or who knows someone) could do so and can’t speak either way until the facts are presented. This is really the best time we have to decide on what settings to use before presenting a united front before Evo next year. It is sad (although I can sympathize) that some OG players won’t accept classic mode because even though it’s not perfect, there’s no other option for ST at the moment aside from cabs and superguns (which I hear Seasons Beatings this year will be focused on and is what we’re having next month for our Baltimore monthlies). Personally, I don’t mind using classic mode as long as an input lag test is conducted on both systems.
Anyway, back to the main point: I don’t know about your local scene but HDR players haven’t really been keeping HDR alive on the east coast. ST players form the majority of those trying to have it hang in there. If it’s a loss of 1 player to make the other 9 happier, I’m for it. If it’s a loss of 9 players to make 9 others happy, I’d be against it; but that’s not the case here. It doesn’t look good to anyone when SFIV gets a lot more entrants while HDR’s participation shrinks slightly. This debate only exists because so many online players and posters don’t bother to show up to offline tourneys. They seem to have some misguided perception that just by sticking to online, their play and words are enough to factor into offline results.
Now, I’m not asking they go to every single tourney they can; maybe 1 or 2 a year will show that the tourney scene is there. If all the online HDR players I know from the northeast US showed up to a major, that major’s turnout would more than double. And something motivating like that is what would convince me that HDR can stand on its own legs and put a stop to my questioning its viability.
Believe me, I’ve tried my best persuading online HDR players to come out and so far, maybe 2 of the 20 players I’ve talked to has done so. This may be the distribution norm for any game with online and offline scenes but the norm may not cut it to really grow offline HDR out. It’s within everyone’s power to make HDR flourish with a little time and travel but outside of Cali, nobody seems inclined to do so. It’s great that Snake Eyez led by example; now some folks need to be inspired and seriously step up to the plate at their next local HDR tourneys.
Also, I can’t speak for anyone else but my own disinterest for HDR really shouldn’t be considered a cause of HDR fading; on the contrary, it’s been a reaction. I’d like to think I’ve given HDR more than a fair look but if you want me to support this game instead of the game I slightly prefer more, I’d like to see the offline interest. As time went on and turnouts looked bleaker, my interest in HDR dimmed. I still think it’s a 9.5 to ST’s 10.0 but if everyone else around me who plays offline feels the same, why settle for 9.5? Perhaps I’m hurting the game by presenting my views, but at least I can rest assured I’ve entered more HDR tourneys than any naysayer I know and have supported HDR the only way a game can be supported at the bottom line: by actions instead of words. And I’ll still support these tourneys in the future so long as they last despite my personal convictions.
SF2 has held together for almost 2 decades and the core fundamentals still work fine. If you want to learn it, there are still players of all levels around on GGPO ST, 360 HDR, and PS3 HDR. Some players simply aren’t interested in the game and that’s OK with me as long as they’ve given it a try. Others have fun just messing around with it and that’s cool too. Some will make excuses for not being able to play competitively offline. I’m fine with that as well, but I’ll just caution folks to not be surprised when the version you prefer disappears from tourneys.
Like I have said before local tournaments for HDR are usually cancelled due to lack of participants. That leaves majors and even the turn out is low there. The prize money is also low so why bother because even if you win the trip will probably cost more than the winnings.
For the glory? After Snake Eyez win I will never enter an HDR major because I don’t need the headaches of either winning or competing with others that win and will get criticized for several pages. Also because knowing their character is in last place on the tier list and winning with that character suddenly makes that character overpowered. I have seen critics in other places but in your own close fighting game community? This doesn’t sound like fun.
That leaves just playing the game for myself, online. I get to beat people and not care about what they think.
A scene full of stress where every bad action (a lot were lies) I ever made got posted up on a forum where anyone could read. This never happened in a game before and I even tested this on SF4 and SSF4. Nope never been posted up even though they have threads for it.
HDR doesn’t feel like a typical game and it feels like every road you take is a back alley and someone is always looking out to get you. It was a game I really enjoyed playing but the community sucked everything out of me where I want to go back for the gameplay but can’t because playing the game with this community just isn’t fun.
I am not bashing everyone because there are a lot of good people too just there are so many bad to make up for the good that they can have their HDR scene.
Ah, good point on the EC! Since I am not there, I have little exposure to the community there. On the WC at least, there still seems to be solid HDR support. But that maybe due to the players like DGV and other So. Cal. guys keeping it alive. As I have stated before, I prefer ST over any street fighter. It wasn’t too long ago when the WC was the ST mainstay. It does seem though, that the EC has taken that over. I have only one thing to stay to that… you lucky bastards! :razz:
As to 4:3 to 16:9, as I stated I’ll support whatever the standard is. But, can we please all get behind ONE standard. Wasn’t there a public vote on the forums, where it come back 16:9 as the preference? I can’t honestly remember. I just remember Wiz, saying that since it was the dominate vote, HDR was going to be 16:9 this year at Evo. … or something to that fact.
As I have stated, I love ST and prefer everything about it. 4:3 screen, the “vanilla” character design, and original game play. But at least on the SRK forums, and on the WC, it does as if my preference is in the minority.
As far as HDR goes, it get frustrating seeing no headway as to what the standards are going to be if HDR is what is going to be played. I just see people arguing in circles, at least for me in my little part to the SRK forum; it is starting to get arduous to go through these arguments again and agian.
The longer HDR has been released the less and less I find myself frustrated with the changes that were made, but more and more frustrated on how it has polarized the community…
I know I truncated your sentence, but do you agree with the sentence above as written ?
GGPO seems to be the only way to play ST every day unless you happen to live very close to other players, and I’d say that 5% of GGPO players are what I’d class as “beginners”, perhaps 25% “intermediates”, and the rest “experts” by which I mean people with very good understanding of their characters and all their matchups.
All of which is to say: to learn the game via GGPO requires an iron will because you’ll get beaten down endlessly. This is potentially the reason why there aren’t more new players; the game is just nasty, brutish, and short.
Isn’t that because they just adopted what EVO was doing which was 4:3?
It would be great for the EC majors to start using 16:9 as there is no issues with it.
There was also no issues with 16:9 at EVO this year, so I don’t think there should be any reason why we should switch back to 4:3 when the majority prefers widescreen.
Hell, Tokido played Vega which is considered to be one of the arguments of the pro-4:3 camp in regards to screenshake and Tokido did just fine.
Oh, and HDR looked BEAUTIFUL on the big screen. 
CzarFighter: f you haven’t already, I’d suggest participating in your nearest major (FR, NEC, MWC, SB, Dev, any big Cali event). When you meet the actual players involved, you can see they’re not bad people either. There’s a serious discussion here, but nobody offline will just start criticizing you for the game you play or how you do. It’s really annoying when an event just cancels games (I’d bet Snake Eyez would have been known earlier if the first tourney he attended held HDR as promised) but these majors are normally reliable.
fatboy: Yeah, I think everyone wishes standards were established at the start. I can understand basing decisions off the polls but it’s annoying because even though I’ve been to a dozen tourneys, the only 16:9 tourney I ever played before this Evo was the very first HDR tourney in VA (in the country, actually), when we experimented with 16:9.
geo: I guess it’s hard for me to tell. At least 50% of the players feel like beginners to me (since I can perform well against them with characters I’m not entirely familiar with) but they may be very competitive in their own right. I think any game taken to a competitive level is a rough ride. But still, there doesn’t seem to be any shortage of them in CCGs. I was actually more concerned with higher level representation when I made that statement, since many OGs aren’t consistently on GGPO anymore.
Aqua Snake: Well, fair enough, but it was still ~3-1 before Evo announced the aspect ratio for last year. I still wasn’t a fan of the screen shaking around non-stop in the Tokido-afro legends match but if I’m the only one with an issue, I’ll drop it. But just as it’s hard for you to believe 4:3 is popular over in your locality, around my area, I have a hard time finding someone who wants to play 16:9. Anyway, if there were more folks like you who started online and then started playing in tourneys, I’d be satisfied with the status quo right now.
But back to the main point, HDR has all the tools to begin a revival. You have a new winner proving that new pad players and “supposed” lower tiers can compete. You had “beautiful” 16:9 enticing gamers at Evo. I’ve already given the warning that this scene needs more participation. Everything has been set according to the wishes of Sirlin and his supporters. Now we need to see the results that were promised. How the online folks who care about HDR respond will likely determine the future of the game. If I see no offline interest in coming months, you can expect me back to discuss the merits of ST classic mode. Otherwise, I’ll be as pleased as anyone that interest in SF2 is growing.
Definitely some good posts/points by Fatboy (the better man!) and Ganelon (nice meeting up with you at Evo). I’m thinking about discussing (with the Denjin crew) the possibility of using Classic Mode for the next Denjin Ranbat in 3 weeks. I’m curious to see if by switching to ST mode we will possibly gain some new players (GGPO brethen perhaps?). As it it is right now, the ranbats with HDR range from 14-20 people. If Classic Mode (aka ST mode) can make the turnouts 20-30 people consistently that would be fantastic (more players actually participating and attending is always a good thing).
For the most part, the group of guys at Denjin don’t really have any allegiance to HDR or ST, we just want to play SF2. Heck, we even entertained the idea of bringing HF back :karate: Hehe, that would be crazy if we actually had 30-40 guys attend HF tourneys regularly and eventually convinced the EVO staff to go to HF (that one’s for you Real Decoy).
This could be a good test to see how much the ST scene is willing to support “current generation console ST.” I applaud the guys in the EC (Damdai, Dsp, Rambo, etc) for having those ST cabinet gatherings. In a perfect world everyone would have access to a cabinet of their own to practice and for all major tourneys, but that just isn’t feasible. My question to the ST camp, besides Ganelon, are you guys willing to compromise and finally accept the sprites?
I was really hoping on driving out from AZ (when I can) to participate in the next round of HDR ranbats at denjin… but I’m not going to drive out there for classic mode.
EDIT - but hey, maybe you can get some of our ST OGs who detest HDR out there that way - some of them play SSF4, too
I like your empirical thinking, DGV (and yeah, it was great to finally meet you guys). I’d strongly encourage anybody preferring ST to make your opinion heard at whichever Denjin ranbat that will be using classic mode, which is the closest thing to ST that Evo would consider holding at this point. Otherwise, if ST results in less players, well then, the players have made their decision and I can certainly accept that.
Anyway, yeah, I’d be willing to go back to CE if that would triple the SF2 turnout. 
I’m glad that even though we may hold differing personal beliefs, everyone can still agree that getting more SF2 competition is the ultimate goal.
I like the Hobbes reference.
I second Ganelons request for someone to test HDR input lag (if there is any beyond what is known of the DC version).
I presume if you’re talking about classic mode that you’d use the classic/old sprites and 4:3 …?
If ‘Clasic’ became the new default, I would be “all in.” I would jump back into the scene 100%.
I mentioned this in the version difference thread as well: It will probably take me a month or so to get the other pieces together, but if someone in Southern CA (preferably close to LAX) will volunteer some time on a RCA set-up, I can do it.
I thought you were going to stop posting?
This train of thought makes Sirlin :sad: