Will we have SF2 @ EVO 2011?

Classic Fighting Games SSF2T: HD Remix
461

its more than possible to make a better version of st, hdr is not that game. i dont really see anyone making “st is perfect” an arguement and yeah we know that hdr is accessible. the only thing left to figure out is what do the majority of players want to compete in at events. st being a classic game has nothing to do with it. its “what do people want to play?”

well we’ve heard that capcom didnt want a remix mode, perhaps they knew something about its consumers? we also know that hdr wasnt released in japan, the one time i have seen this brought up in an interview the answer a certain member of capcom gave was “they are very protective of the sf license there”. when capcom japan outsources its licenses we get some of the worst releases of all time, look up final fight streetwise and what is probably the only technically unplayable street fighter game ever released, ccc2.

hdr needed to come out either a year earlier, when people were starved for a new street fighter game(this would have been a huge thing for sf2 and it would have prob been the main game at evo 2k8) or a year later so it could be refined. the changes got it pushed back and then it basically became a marketing appetizer for sf4 so we got it when we did.

ggpo is the modernization of st, so is streaming live from a cabinet with people around the world watching an event live and being able to easily pull up hundreds of matches on youtube from your phone. the people that loved and put work into st kept it alive all these years. capcom realized they could make $ by selling these guys yet another version, which is why hdr got green lit. these same people will keep it going. there are new players getting involved, there is an educated community, the future is whatever we want it to be

462

I too honestly have no idea what they want.

Although I do think it’s highly comical that making low tier characters competitive is “10 steps back” and “babyzone.”

463

What’s comical is the misconception that they weren’t competitive before.

464

This.

I have played many many games in my life time. Way too many. I still have a few back logs on my steam account that I never touch.

I don’t know how much time I’ve wasted going through them, spent a chunk of time playing and end up not finishing them because it was fun at the beginning but they didn’t hold up after a while.

Of course, I still come across a few classics that I don’t regret playing. zelda a link to the past, ff iv, castlevania sotm, diablo II, etc.

But now that I look back, I wish someone would tell me just play those games and skip all the others. I might have got a few years of my life back.

I always know that quality over quantity. I used to just keep my best pen around(now I don’t write often anymore, sad), a very nice bike that I enjoyed riding, the best laptop (thinkpad), etc etc.

But somehow I fail to apply the same principle to gaming. Maybe they are intangible goods that do not take up a lot of physical spaces (same problem with my computer - I have downloaded way too much stuff that I can’t even find them from my hard drive)

I used to be a video game junkies and browse amazon to see what new games are coming out and get them. Since 2 years ago I have stopped just sampling every game that come out from the universe.

I got back to ST in 2009 after I learned about madcatz TE (last time I played it is in the arcade, I might have fired it up using emulator a few times to check it out but without an arcade stick I’m not playing it)

And after I discovered srk and ggpo I simply stopped playing other games. I don’t play too much of ST on a daily basis either, maybe 0-20 matches a day. On weekend I might play 50.

But I enjoyed it so much that I have no desire to go through anymore new games only to discover that most of them suck one way or another. (and yes I’ll get diablo 3 when it comes out, but that’s about it. I bought sc2 but didn’t play it).

I also got an xbox and HDR at the beginning since I thought it would be the latest and greatest SF2, but soon to discover how underwhelming it is to me.

So yeah, HDR is cheap, $15. And arcade setup is more expensive (percentage-wise, compare to $15)

But given how many junk games I blew my $ on, it is money well spent.

It might be expensive for a kid or for a high school student. But for a grown man it is totally reasonable.
Many hobbies are way more spendy (photography, hi-fi, auto-sports)

If it’s the main game that I play all the time and $15 buy me a 9.5 experience (in ganelon’s words, my score is not this) and a couple hundreds buy me a 10.0 experience, I will not hesitate to spend that money.

Life is short. Why not get the best that is within your reach (since I cannot afford a lamborghini anyway).

(BTW, ggpo is free)

465

We bring in new players by the 10’s and lose them by the 100’s to SF4, plus the general SF2 community is much, much older than the general SSF4 one. HDR brought some new blood in but I think the pipeline has started to run dry and I don’t know what the answer is to replace it. I love ST but I don’t think arcade ST is the answer (but I don’t know if HDR is either, it seems it’s not bringing more players in anymore and many that it did have gone on to SF4).

Speaking of SF4, it was Capcom Japan that produced that pile of crap. Now they are going to flood the market with a bunch of small updates and crappy spin-offs and kill the FG genre all over again (SFvT anyone?). Protective of their license? They pimp out their characters to whatever will make them a quick buck. Japanese market has always been against Western made games, even though now the shoe is on the other foot and all the quality games are made in the West and Japan is way behind (Capcom’s just retired president said so himself, that Japan was at least 5 years behind the west now). So if your hoping for a proper ST update from Capcom Japan I wouldn’t count on it and we may like what they give us even less.

And it will only get worse, I read a quote from Ono just the other day (don’t remember where) that for the next SF he wants to put in a system that will “weaken the hardcore” and make it easy for a casual gamer to play just as well as a hardcore one. Boy, I can’t wait for that! That sounds like a great fighting game! Sarcasm. So it sounds like all the things we all hate in SF4 are only going to get amplified.

All I know is I don’t like where the current FG genre is headed and it looks like we’re getting left behind while we fight among ourselves.

466

uhm…

Source: http://curryallergy.blogspot.com/2008/10/three-charts-was-morning.html

467

Double post bug.

468

What’s that based on?

469

I updated my post with a link to the source.

470

if your going to coninue the wave of misinformation, you should at least be typical enough to include “sandy” and “salty” in your post

Maj: If you had to pick one title to represent classic fighting games forever at every tournament, which would you choose and why?

DreamTR: Super Street Fighter II Turbo. The game seems to never die and players seem to enjoy and appreciate the arcade version more as time progresses. (I still don?t understand the need for HD Remix when ST was already the most balanced SF game at the time.)

hah its the game industry, everything is a re-hash. every street fighter game has been put on every console after its release. if history tells us anything its that super turbo will be released again and again.
say what you want about sf4 but it has a huge community and made bank for capcom, they even went back and tried to improve on it with ssf4. not my game but succesful on numerous levels

471

@geo

do you have a comparable chart that shows hdr results?

half of the top 8 at evo all used ryu, you could start with that

472

What’s your point, that the ST chart simply reflects favoritism towards certain characters?

473

I have an idea, instead of the same old HDR v ST argument, which is what this (and it seems every) thread is turning into, why don’t we get some info from Mr.Wizard to see what we need to do to make sure that SF2 (at this point I don’t think it matters which one, though sounds like he pretty much shot arcade anything down) is a main game at EVO? Then we can go from there. I think we’ve all heard every argument from every side about 1,000 times now and I don’t know about anyone else but I’m kinda tired of reading it all over again. It would be nice to get back onto the subject of the thread, see what EVO will and won’t do, see what they want and then try to actually get organized and make it happen? Novel idea, I know, LOL.

474

yeah. that chart goes against most tier lists, i would assume that the characters shown to have done the best also had more people using them than others. i dont think its a good representation of who and what is competitive

475

It’s the most comprehensive data set I’ve ever seen, and it was complied by Nohoho. Do you have a better data set?

It seems like it would be very hard to argue that HDR doesn’t have better (i.e. more compressed) tiers, or that Cammy is a competitive tournament character in ST (per the chart above).

476

if 0-2 people picked cammy during this time then it means nothing, ill see if fred wants to come in here and break it down since im sure he would be upset your using his chart in an anti-st kinda way lol,
if you wanna use charts to prove your points then you have to provide them for both games, like i said 4 out of the top 8 at evo used ryu, start with that.

477

XgUw@i?@TCg

If you want to see how the Japanese scene stacks up character wise then look at the Danisen grades. AFO has his O.Blanka at 9th Dan, the Japanese clearly can compete with any character, there are specialists for every character. Of course we can’t play ST in the U.S. because instead of learning ST we are busy Remixing characters to lower the bar instead of elevating ourselves. Noguchi (Fei) and YuuVega (Dictator) are both past 10th Dan in Danisen, having to battle through tons of difficult matches to get there. At Messe this year VIPER (N.Hawk) and Aoki Cyclone (Zangief) won a bunch of solo tournaments despite using low tier characters. Hell VIPER has taken N.Hawk to a new level that no one anticipated (see links below). At SBO this year, even though Arcadia limited festival games to only 16 spots, ST had very good character variety, every N.Character but FeiLong was present, and a couple of O.Characters were in the mix as well. If ST had 32 slots at SBO the variety would have been even better. And over the years in Japan, every single N.Character has won a major, and we’ve seen tons of O.Characters compete (just last week Mayumura OCV’d a bunch of teams at a tournament with O.Ryu).

And at SBO this year, Abedin using Honda, beat Kurahashi’s Ryu and Gian’s Dhalsim. He beats the two best players in all of ST in two very lopsided matches. Then later he beats Inro (O.Chun) and Danjiri (Dhalsim). Did he complain about jab headbutt not going through fireballs? Or HHS being too hard? Or did he learn the match properly and just compete?

Every character in ST has the tools to win every single match if you actually sit down and take the time to learn them. The Japanese scene is incredible because they play the game constantly, adapt, learn, and keep playing over and over. Meanwhile, instead of figuring out how to do 720s while walking, we just lower the bar and dumb down 720 motions. :rolleyes:

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Hell if you want to be like Geo and just pick and choose from old charts as if they represent current ST, then why not include all of the tournaments where Akuma won HDR before he was banned?

478

SRK doesn’t care about SF2! /kanye

Whatever they choose i think HDR will bring in more people then ST, especially since the ST people are so hell bent on arcade setup. SF2 is just a way to past time until SFIV is up. I think just keep HDR at EVO until it dies out. ST people bring your stuff for side tournaments. Im sure people wont mind too much entering both. But for now i think HDR is the more well known/easier game for the casual SFIV players to enter. The better the numbers the better chance SF2 is going to live on right?

479

According to VF4 Nohoho doesn’t post on SRK because all the HDR players scared him off with their beginner questions, so don’t hold your breath.

But just so I understand: you’re saying that during an entire calendar year in Japan (which is what the dataset represents), everyone who picked Cammy went 0-2 (or thereabouts) and that’s why Cammy has such massively low tournament placings relative to other characters?

And for the record, my point of posting the link to that chart was not “anti ST” like you say.

480

I am not claiming that any particular character can’t beat any other particular character. I posted the chart as a response to Damdai’s claim that it is “comical” that low tier characters in ST are not competitive, since the chart provides evidence to the contrary.

Dude, you’re smart enough to know what a straw man argument is.