Will we have SF2 @ EVO 2011?

Classic Fighting Games SSF2T: HD Remix
421

I have no idea what Shari is stilling do here.

EVO is none of his business and he goes all his way to spread negativity on this thread.

At first I still take him seriously now there is just no point.

Anyway, I have talked about the following with folks privately, and this is not only concerning SF2

As more and more new games are coming out, the old games are going to get pushed out.
Some games are gone for good (alpha series)
But there are still a lot of supporters for timeless classics (SF2, SF3).

Also, not all of these new games are any good and will fad away eventually (sorry TvC players, IMHO Mortal Kombat Rebirth will be another one like that).

We should not accepted that SF2 SF3 should be pushed out just because new games are coming out.

But EVO has its limitations. Equipments, man power, final day stream time, etc.

NCR (John Choi) & SBO give me some ideas how to overcome these problems.

Here’s the EVO 2010 final schedule

10am-12pm Melty Blood, Actress Again Tournament finals
12pm-2pm Marvel vs. Capcom 2 Tournament Finals
2pm-4pm Tatsunoko vs. Capcom Tournament Finals
4pm-4:30pm SSFIV Women?s Invitational Finals
4:30-6pm Super SFII HD Remix Tournament Finals
6pm-8pm Tekken 6 Tournament Finals
8pm-9pm Marvel vs. Capcom 3 Exhibition
9pm-11pm SSFIV Tournament Finals

As you can see, everything is run one after another. You can only feature so many games in a day like this.

Thus EVO has to phrase out games every year to make room for newer games, even for games that a lot of people still play and would enter.

However, as many of you who have gone to tournament know, most people are not interested in games that they don’t play. So as a typical SF2 player, I would be interested in watching SFII, and maybe SFIV since it kinda play like SFII. But MB, MvC2, TvC, Tekken are all optional to me.

An alternative approach is to run two tracks at once like the first day of SBO.

They have two big screens for each track. Obviously Tekken and SF can be separated.
MB & Marvel can also run in parallel, etc, etc.

We can also have level up streams MB and spooky streams Marvel at the same time.

What if there are conflicts (like tokido in top8 for both tekken & SF4). Well since we know who are the top 8 finalists in advance we can arrange the games differently. If it is not possible, we can wait for tokido in either game. A little scarify is ok.

Now go back to the problem of pool plays.

If EVO don’t want to feature game X because they don’t want to deal with the hassle of game X, well, we as the community can take that hassle from EVO.

For example, Damdai and Roybisel are known to able to run bracket smoothly and efficiently. If they volunteer, EVO doesn’t have to devote man power to run game X.

If game X requires hardware that EVO don’t want to acquire / transport, Game X community members can donate and bring their setup.

EVO’s responsibility would then be:

1 advertise such game,
2 collect reg/entry fee,
3 stream the event at finals.

Now one of the bigger problems for the pool play is to round up the players if they are entering multiple games.

For the coming NCR we’ll try to ask people’s phone number (or email if they have push-capable phone) during registration (if they permit), and when we run the bracket, we’ll try to see if the players going for the next match is around. If not, we can text him to remind him. (NCR will have free wifi for the whole venue)

Another idea (I don’t think it’s too crazy given how much $ EVO spent on console setup alone) is for EVO to setup Kiosks in each corner of the venue.

Sort of like in airport where you can check your flight, etc.

The upcoming matches can be listed there and everyone can easily see if their match is coming early (bracket run very smooth) or late (someone is blocked from another game).

Anyway, I’m not saying all of these will be feasible at EVO 2011. Maybe we can incorporate some of the ideas that we come up with in this thread.

Again, just trying to help brainstorming some ideas.

EVO should be fun for the players.

If EVO grows so big such that logistic issues are preventing players (given enough numbers) from playing the game that they want, it kind of defeats the purpose of having a national fighting game tournament.

[edit: there is a little triangle icon at the bottom of each post (next to Blog this post).

You can report a post by clicking on that.

A good reason you can copy & paste : “excessive trolling”

hmm… someone deleted his post and post again. why?
]

422

That whole Cthulhu thing is getting more and more true by the minute.

423

To clarify, that statement does not necessarily refer to SRK or EVO.

424

A man can always dream.

425

when i say people have 15 years advantage, i mean that since the game has been out for that long, it’s been out there longer than hdr for people to study, dissect, and play. people who start at ST say today, can look on youtube or ask people knowledgeable about the game and certain aspects can be broken down pretty easily or much better (and quicker). for example, in ST’s infancy, like the first 2 years of the game, i believe i recall deejay, and m.bsion being ranked quite high. moreso, than the current high tiers like balrog, claw, sim, o.sagat (who haven’t seen much movement in tiers for the past decade).

i think someone like snake eyez has proven that in a short amount of time since hdr has been out, he can compete with OG’s on hdr (with people such as cole, afro, sirlin, daigo, etc). i believe shirts even challenged him on ST, snake eyez agreed, but i’m not sure whatever became of that. the fact that someone like him can compete, i’m sure if other high level hdr players bothered to play ST (or if it was accessible to them, or if they were motivated enough), they can learn the game definitely AND compete.

let’s go out on a limb here. let’s say ST-ONLY players put their issues aside and did compete in HDR for evo. wouldn’t that guarantee that SF2 will live on? obviously they can go to eastcoast and support ST tourneys there, and they can go to evo and support HDR there, thus maintaining the participation level needed to justify keeping the SF2 tournaments.
if you think about it, that’s actually the easiest way for SF2 to survive, instead of convincing people to hunt down old hardware etc.

obviously HDR makes more sense for the masses since it’s more accessible. trust me, i’m sure there’s more people who have HDR on xbox/ps3 than people who own ST cabs, superguns, or roms of the game for ggpo etc.

if the avg is lower it’s only because HDR hasn’t been around as long as ST. and HDR-only players need time to improve and get better. i’m sure ST-only players have been playing the game at least 4 or 5 years, or do you know some exceptional ST only players who started out within the past 2 years and are pretty beastly? (i use 2 years as a time frame since that’s how long HDR has been out).

obivously if old ST players keep refusing to play HDR, a different group will step up and up the competitive level, especially if HDR continues to be featured at evo. i’ll give you an example, although you talk about the elite’s and what not in ST, there was a time when CE and HF ruled the arcades. there was alot of competition for those games a long time back, and between CE, HF, and ST (arcade days), believe it or not, but i’d say ST had the least amount of interest and competition. the CE, HF crowd faded away, got old, or other, and new blood stepped up to take their place in a newer game (when you think of names like watson, choi, cole for ST there were much better players than them in HF and CE like tomo, and thomas osaki - with whom they have played against).

and my last quote that you were dissecting, my main point was the fact that there is competitive people for HDR - alot imo, and although they might not necessarily be competing at tourneys, they do exist. this was more in response to the HDR list of players vs ST list of players. i think you were just comparing people who showed up for tourneys, i wouldn’t say that’s the avg. and give it more time, i would say that HDR list will grow

trust me, HDR is close enough to ST, and if you have ST experience, with a little adjustment to the changes, you should be able to do as well in HDR as you did in ST. you want examples?

  1. daigo making top 8 the past 2 years in HDR, and i think he’s won an HDR tournament vs DGV previously
  2. tokido placing top 8 at this year’s evo (without even using claw’s new wall dive cancel, and probably playing HDR for the 1st time at evo).
  3. afro legends beasting equally well in ST and HDR as if there was no difference and
  4. let’s go way back even, when the game was finally shown at 100% completion, a friend of mine was able to beat choi, and graham wolfe at HDR (this was when obviously people were playing HDR using ST knowledge - but what you might not know is my friend had only previously played HF, CE and ST on dreamcast - and that knowledge was enough to win).
426

^ I co-sign almost this entire post!

427

Someone playing ST on dreamcast will not gain knowledge of how to fight human opponents period.

ST=The holy grail, HDR= Styrofoam cup to beg for nickles and dimes.

Not sure why shari is meddling in US affairs, he should be worried about the HDR scene in europe.

428

i guess i didn’t put enough detail. of course he played human opponents - on dreamcast ST. (but his main skill and knowledge was developed from CE/HF arcades. and believe it or not, even the bootleg blackbelt and rainbow edition games.) what’s funny is i think even the ST version on dreamcast is not “good enough” for some of the ST purists, but i’m not sure why that’s the case.

429

You keep piping in on this thread with 1-liners. Do you actually have any substance to add to this conversation or are you just trolling?

430

Also just for the record, I’m not a HDR ONLY player. I wish I could use my 360 controller to play ST but I know that’s prolly not possible. Although I prefer HDR, if that converter some of you guys were talkin about for a PS3 controller actually works without lag then I would enter a ST tournament too cause I’m ok at usin a PS3 controller and can learn to get good with it. I like SF2 in general…

431

Phlush, you can install drivers and use a 360 pad in GGPO, that’s what I do and it works fine. All this stuff about HDR’s relaxed inputs ruining the game is nonsense. I can do the same with ST on pad as I can in HDR.

Not sure why anyone would want to play HDR with ST gameplay. If you are going to play HDR, do so for it’s remixed mode, if not then play some form of original ST. Can’t see why you’d want to play the less balanced of the two, with the worst graphics of the two.

Yeah the PS3 version of HDR is fucking awful. I knew I felt input lag at VSfighting, even said so to orf but he said he didn’t notice. I presumed it was because it was being played on PS3 using SD connections on LCD (so the upscaling causes lag), but that said I also have the PS3 version and the timing feels off (I play on CRT), though it could be because fucking Sony only allow 50Hz on SD connections so shit gets a bit jerky.

432

is your ps3 pad wireless? That could be a problem…or it doesn’t matter aslong as its a ps3/ps2 pad?

433

Why would i be ?

Besides if you can’t realize that the decisions EVO make have impact in Europe as well i don’t know what to tell you.

434

It’s kinda ironic and funny that when ST first came out in arcades almost every SF2 player I knew hated it. People forget now, looking back with rose colored glasses, that ST wasn’t well received at all. We all thought that Super moves and throw softening were “baby zone”. LOL. That’s why I find the false arrogance of the newer ST players in this thread funny.

In fact, no new SF2 game since HF was well received at first and we lost players along the way with each new version. None of this is new. MK didn’t completely kill off SF2 back then, I don’t think SF4 or MvC3 will now, though things haven’t been this grave since the arcades died. I really wish this community could get on the same page. Sounds like it’s HDR (or classic mode) or nothing at EVO (I’m going to ignore VFF4 like I always do, LOL).

435

What kind of controller do you use? The stock 360 wireless or something else?

436

Yeah Zero1 I actually did play on GGPO with a wired 360 right before HDR was released. And like you said I was able to execute moves just like on HDR. The only difference I felt was the timing on DP from playin HF. At the same time though I only played Ryu on GGPO…

What I was sayin though is I wish I could use a 360 controller for an offline ST tournament and as far as I know I never heard of a 360 converter to use on a cab or whatever.

437

Regarding the state of the SF2 scene, I wouldn’t say that the situation is awful right now, but rather, the temporary boost we experienced with a new game seems to be gone (although I wouldn’t mind being wrong as a flock of online players come out in support). Comparing the numbers at local tourneys and majors to those of years past, would anyone disagree that SF2 is back to pre-HDR numbers, if that? That’s why if your local area is made up of a majority that strongly prefers one version over another, it may be ideal to stick with it to dissuade more players from jumping into the SF4 hole. If there’s a split, see which one is more supported by turnout preference. If 10 players prefer X and 2 prefer Y, you have to weigh whether the additional entries or preference for version is more important.

As for ST’s past, I was actually someone who didn’t like the supers at all in ST and started losing interest after CE like many others. When I started AE, I still held that opinion. But in time, they grew on me where I now consider them more as adding extra flavor to the game (as with the limited juggle system). I think the main reason for that is it’s very easy to avoid and even beat random supers in ST/HDR if you know what you’re doing, which is why JP players tend to save them for situations that can be confirmed. Throw teching is a different matter because it was intended to reduce “cheap” throw ticks. I wonder how many fewer disputes would have occurred back in the day if the CPS1 SF2s let players tech throws.

Anyway, if you compare ST’s relative history as SF2’s tourney-standard entry, it may be easier to see why it gets the respect it does now (give or take a couple months for each version; you can google the dates yourselves):

WW: 1 year
CE: 0.5 year
HF: 1 year
NC: 0.5 year
ST: 9.5 years
AE: 1 year
ST: 4 years
HDR in the US, ST in Japan: 2 years

438

Haha i was one of those people who never liked ST because of the Supers so i stop playing SF2 all together after Hyper Fighting…So maybe 15 years later there will be an HDR re-remix & all these complainers will realize how awesome SF2 is no matter what version, after having a drought of mediocre games Street Fighter 5, Street Fighter 6 3D, Capcom vs Guilty Gear vs Mortal Kombat vs Tekken, etc…

439

Well, the only reason ST was the standard so long was because until HDR it was the latest version (I don’t really count AE, I don’t think that game was every really meant to anything more than fan-service as a “what if” game). If Super SF2 had been the last game then it would be the one with all the reverance and long tourney history (which would suite Vintage and me just fine, LOL).

I love every version of SF2 (except maybe AE, it’s fun for casuals, though), I just think this thread needed a little perspective, especially with some of the crazy stuff that gets posted every now and then, LOL.

From what I’ve seen the numbers are still a little higher than the pre-HDR days, but not by much. I agree with you that whatever is most popular in your area with the players that actually show up should be the tourney standard. I do think HDR should be the game at EVO, though, just because it is the one most likely to draw in newer, younger players. Lets face it, the SF2 community is getting on the old side, most of us have trouble making tournies these days with real life factored in (I’m contemplating “retiring” myself). It would be nice to see more new blood filtering in, especially with so many choices that new FG players will soon have.

440

actually, i agree with what mad possum mentioned. the only real reason st has been included with evo for so long is because it was the “last link” to the old sf2 games. it was not the most popular, but it was the most accessible and readily playable (dreamcast and arcade at the time). for a long time back in the days, i recall how many purists used to consider hf the “perfect” sf2 game. so the whole “st gets more respect” thing because it’s been in at evo longer, doesn’t really hold weight compared to hf - btw, if hdr’s numbers hold steady, i don’t see why it won’t be included for future evos to come. and honestly, i dont think respect has anything to do with what get’s included at evo sometimes. i think 1 year they had capcom fighting all stars (i might be thinking of a different event so correct me if i’m wrong), and a few years they had dead or alive, and i hear all sorts of different groups complaining about that game sometimes. and you’ve never seen evo spotlight any big snk games or put much emphasis on hyping say virtua fighter (when in japan, they used to swear that was THE game, even though none of the installments caught any fire here stateside).

aqctually, come to think of it, we don’t always necessarily follow japan’s lead (nor do we really have to). good examples of this are mvc2 in america, darkstalkers/virtuafighter in japan. imo, that is good because although 1 country might be lacking, there are pockets in the world that push the competition level of their favorite respective games.

japan knows we are really good in mvc2, and we proved that to them when they had it at the 1st usa vs japan invitational. it was a game usa was really into. why do you supposed japan never tried to compete on our level or why didn’t the few experts they have really make a push for it? it doesn’t matter though, but it’s good usa was able to just enjoy and play mvc2 since thats what they wanted to do. can you imagine though if some people just flat out said “we need to stop playing mvc2, japan thinks it’s a joke, and we need to focus more on 3s - that’s where they’re at and that’s what we need to be on.”

(but now replace mvc2 with hdr, and 3s with st in that last sentence… and btw, i used those as an example because they were popular at roughly the same times)