That shit is baby zone!! I agree with you - the level of condescension amongst some ST fanatics reflects very badly on them.
Some of those players actually started with ST and others are exactly who need to show up at tourneys to help give their own scene some credibility. To be considered top players, I think they need to pop up and do well like you did.
Input lag is a concern although laugh assures us he’s tested his converters to be lagless. We haven’t felt anything either so if it’s anything more than 1 frame, I’d be surprised. I’d agree that it’s something that ought to be tested on other arcade-PS setups though.
For example, krost has a supergun with PS inputs and it randomly drops actions performed in the first couple seconds of certain rounds when my HRAP is plugged in (but apparently not at any other time). That’s a strange issue we certainly can’t be having for any major. Thankfully, there haven’t been any reported issues with laugh’s converters.
Meanwhile, if you care about input lag, for HDR, we have PS3 HDR with more lag than 360 and likely both with more input lag than the arcade version. It’s disappointing that HDR seems to have suffered the same problem as CCC2 in this regard.
It sounds like you didn’t read my recent posts. They’re admittedly long but have addressed this misconception multiple times.
For example, I would bet that Corrosive, as belittling as he may seem towards HDR now, has actually convinced more people from outside the SF2 world to join HDR than anybody else. If he thinks that every random person just posting online (but not coming out) to support HDR is an idiot, I don’t blame him. He’s put in effort, his own money for an HDR tourney pot, has seen nothing, and is occasionally blamed for making things worse off.
Some people are making pure guesses and blind suggestions about the scene; others can see with their own eyes what’s going on and form firsthand opinions about how things can be fixed. They may not be right either but at least they’re making educated opinions. In fact, some of the most opinionated ST posters here are opinionated because they’re very passionate about the game’s competitive scene and are now disillusioned at the current situation where HDR doesn’t even surpass ST’s old numbers except at Evo, even with so many new players in the scene.
Like I’ve said time and time again, if you really want HDR, then it’s very simple: make a concerted effort to show up to a major or 2. If you’re too busy each time, well, I don’t know what to say except that the offline scene may not be for you. Otherwise, participating to make the HDR scene stronger (instead of relying on ST fans to do the work for you in a game they don’t enjoy as much) would be the best way to force ST fans to simmer down. We can discuss all day but unless those numbers at NCR or SCR show up with positive traces of players who prefer HDR, then the only folks to blame are your fellow online fans.
You know what, I think you’ve hit the nail on the head here too. I wasn’t sure exactly why I felt things against playing in an ST only tournament (if there was one), as I do (did?) like ST originally too. But now I realise that this is the thing that bothers me so much that I don’t want to associate with the kind of mindset & attitudes I see repeatedly from anti-HDR types. 
However, it’s obviously a non-issue in the UK, as all the SF2 tournaments here are HDR, and it’s growing in popularity.
PS: I actually may very well attend EVO one day too, but only if it runs HDR.
I like how you guys keep blaming all the online players only. How ST fans are the saviors of SF2. How Sirlin raped their child. Seriously what makes you think w/ that attitude they going to come out & play with you guys. Being cold online forum trying to attract online players isn’t exactly the best way to do it.
What you guys should be doing is some recording & hyping up what happen during the events. Not just the tournament but the actual experience itself. Take marsgatti for example, he posted on what happen in that tournament he went to, that’s the type of stories i like read about & want to go see for myself & experience that…Instead of salty players talking about babyzone characters…
Will be interesting to see if this works both ways.
Will the unofficial official ST tourney thingie participants also be entering HDR or is that too much to ask ?
Yeah again I agree with Ganelon on the fact that a lot of the HDR players are just MIA @ offline tournaments besides EVO really.
Before MWC this year I went to 2 local events for HDR. In january where the tourney got cancelled due to real bad organization when we got there but we still played casuals. Only about 10 players were gonna enter. Then in february went to a Ranbats - 12 entrants. Then MWC had 44 entrants I believe which was pretty good. Then of course EVO had 300 which I couldn’t make unfortunately. So then a month and a half ago I went to a local tourney here thinkin the numbers would be good after 300 went to EVO… 11 entrants! I wish just half the online players would attend.
I’m definitely goin to EVO next year along with the sequel to MWC 2010 (UFGT7). Hopefully I can make it to this Focus Fire event in Wisconsin in december and I encourage all the XBL and PSN HDR players to make an effort to get there if you wanna keep the HDR offline scene alive.
Take a look at my sig for evidence of how Ganelon views offline vs. online. He’s a religious fanatic.
rcaido… that’s what the ST guys did with their game. Part of why I really buckled down was not only because of my local scene, but because of the whole road to Tougeki. If the guys in Connecticut didn’t record any matches with DSP’s camera, then I was seriously calling up Mars asking him how the training session went, who was up there, and what it was like. Where do you think “don’t blow this” came from? I see those guys playing the game at a high level and it inspired me because, above all else, they were having fun. If you guys don’t like hearing HDR hate, you’d have hated to hear what I was saying at SB5 every time I hit Day 0 Fei Long Chicken Wing into full rekkas combo.
The Denjin Ranbats are what I consider to be comparable to this, though.
I went to my first tournament Bragging Rights in Portland, i made the drive down there…I think there were about 20+ for HDR but most were quality players…It was a great experience & i was really looking forward to Northwest Majors but it got canceled due to venue dispute.
The Portland people really did a good job, they had a head to head setup while projecting it on a big screen for the Top 8…They even had raffles giving away TE stick, Xbox 360, & random SF stuff…There was even a 3 vs 3 Seattle vs Portland after the HDR tournament ended.
Its an experience every gamer should experience, hell just meeting people who share common interest is enough to go to again & again. I know we have some kind of urgency right now but baby steps would be the best bet to get online players.
Try getting them to the local scene, i think once you get them they will be hooked.
My suggestion would be try to see who are your SF2 players in your region forum. Make a players roster & then each time there is a gathering or tourney, hit them up w/ a pm. Put a list on who’s going…Instead of just posting insert tournament name insert date.
In reality though, i think trying to get online player to play is a loss cause. Our best way is to get all those SFIV fanatics joining tournaments to join our tournament too. We need to the tournament organizers for help on this, they need to hype up the other games instead of just SFIV.
I should hold you to your own high standards here. Since nobody has done any testing saying this as fact doesn’t seem right. Also, let’s not lump either version in with CCC2.
That seems petty to me, but it’s your choice of course. Despite the perception some may receive from reading their online posts, many ST players have willingly played HDR and entered HDR tourneys. Some would still enter both given that chance. Besides some coldness to and from Sirlin with folks who’ve spoken negatively of HDR, everyone else is normally chill at tourneys.
I may be able to come up with an excuse to not play HDR anymore out of spite but that seems like a really silly thing to do. I’ve preferred ST since my first days with HDR but I’m here to support SFII period. I know many others who have a vested interest in the offline scene feel the same way.
Well, first off, I’m actually not part of the “you guys” group since I haven’t said those things but I can understand you’ve seen others mention that here. Mostly, I’d say it goes back to the matter of cause and effect. ST players, some new HDR players, and plenty of new SFIV players held down the HDR fort well for a time. There was no pressure for online players to come at all until turnouts started dropping and they were needed. And when most of the online world didn’t respond to numerous calls from multiple players, how I could I continue to be passive about the situation?
I’m just making it very clear for everybody on the WC that if you care about the game, you ought to participate in the sure-to-be-fun upcoming majors if it’s relatively close by and you’re free. It’s a possibility that there may not be many more chances to do so. I’ll be happy to pipe down if that will get results instead, but I’ve tried that in the past and it didn’t work. All I’m looking for now is to get more motivated SF2 players. Perhaps you’re right and the online base is for the most part simply out of reach no matter how they’re approached.
But I’m not one to give up either, esp. when some of the players I’ve talked to have come out offline (but mostly only for a tourney or 2; the ones that stay have always come out on their own). Everyone in my region who talks about or plays ST already consistently enters ST tourneys so that source has been maxed out. As for SF4 players, I’ve already mentioned that I’ve had a 0% record in poaching them for SF2. If anybody has had consistent success in this, please let everyone know how it was done.
The US HDR tourney player base is currently still made up of a good chunk of ST players so I’d expect quite a few to support all SF2. But if the number of entrants for both tourneys will be used as a referendum on which version is more popular, then that would be a mistake since more ST players are willing to play HDR than HDR to ST from what I’ve seen.
In either case, ST players really need to show up to NCR in the first place. They’re getting exactly what they want with CPS2 ST and there are definitely OG and GGPO players over there. I expect them to come out and have fun. If they don’t (or can’t), then I’ll be disappointed at them as well.
Yeah, I’m glad you can back me up from the HDR side. Although in truth, pretty much all tourney players I’ve talked to agree on the same need for increased and sustained participation. I may be more vocal online, but rest assured many others are just as eager for more competition.
On an aside, it’s interesting that dedicated HDR players who’ve played offline (Royal Phlush, Snake Eyez, Aqua Snake, and GeneiJin87 are some of the better known) don’t really post controversial stuff. They know who they are and are confident letting their actions speak for themselves. I don’t agree with their game choice but I respect that they’re out there supporting their game. HDR needs more players like them to show up where it counts.
Ha, I still stand behind it, however you view it. And now that you’re becoming an offline vet, geo, I won’t object to your opinions either. Like me or hate me, it doesn’t matter much as long as you’re making the offline community stronger.
Ha, fair enough. But I’m also willing to put money on the line. Anyone willing to bet $100 that 360 HDR doesn’t have 2+ frames of lag and another $100 that PS3 HDR doesn’t have 3+ frames of lag? If someone wants to only test it, I’ll give you $100 (no bet needed) if my estimates are off. Like I said, try the claw link combo I mentioned for 30 min on each platform. It’s not proof but it’s hard to ignore the difference in timing and on-screen visuals.
Rcaido - Good idea, but from my experiences from every tourney I’ve been to since SF4 came out is that 99% of the SF4 players have blinders on when it comes to other fighting games. Players that are there for other games will play in SF4 because it’s always the biggest draw there but it never seems to work the other way around.
I do think that SJV’s re-organizing idea from the other thread would help, especially if SF2 gets it’s own regional matchmaking forum. Every thread and poster in the regional threads on SRK now are almost all about SSF4.
Most of the good XBL online HDR players in my area already come out to most tournies (though one in particular only came to one a year ago and then stopped), I’ve been trying to recruit the PSN guys but haven’t had any luck as of yet. People seem to be split over ST v. HDR, though I think most of the move towards ST around here lately is due to Roy Bisel’s strong ST preferance.
Evo was the first time I’ve ever played on a PS3 in a tourney. I also have one of Laugh’s converters which I used in the tournament. After playing in the tourney on both casuals and Tourney on PS3 the only difference I noticed offline was higher pitched sounds. Both versions felt the same to me offline. And Input lag is very noticeable to me when I’m walking up and blocking projectiles over and over again like when I’m playing on GGPO FB Emulator. Not the case when I was playing on PS3.
Nah, I thought it felt like shit. I’m really not up for people posting anecdotes of “I think PS3 is fine”, because I can name many more instances where people were adamant about how it just feels like trash. I even had Damdai tell me “You have to do your link a little slower” when we were at the hotel and I was hitting my cross ups but using different timing.
If we need someone to do a test, fine. But please cut the “feels fine to me”, because it’s clearly a point of contention and instead of pushing for actual resolution through a test you’re spreading bullshit, Aqua Snake. I think GGPO feels off as well, but things are actually easier to do on cab ST compared to emulated ST. PS3 just feels like shit to me and I’d like a real reason as to why that is. It’s already proven that PS3 has some lag for Super SFIV, we need to discover if this is a universal problem if this really is being brought up.
Way to assume I don’t want someone to do a test on the PS3.
You guys spoke on your experience on the PS3 version, and I gave my personal experience after playing on it for the first time.
I actually thought both versions felt identical too for a time, which is why I made that HDR comparison thread. Just performing cancel combos was just as easy on both platforms and I tested the actual game speed to be completely identical. The first time I noticed a difference in input lag was practicing claw’s j.HP,c.MK,c.MP link over and over again for an hour, then deciding to do the same thing on the other platform. It was so noticeably different that I added that experience to my comparison topic. And when neither prepared me for doing the same combo on arcade ST in Japan, all the doubts disappeared from my mind.
Of course, I know it’s not as obvious to others, which is where claw’s link combo performed constantly for a length of time may be enough to convince you that there’s a discrepancy in input lag. When I was comparing versions, I tested many situations that people mentioned to see if they made sense. Perhaps some folks can try out my suggestion when they have the time.
You’re breaking one of the very basic rules about communication if you don’t think that that’s precisely what this is implying. Sorry, but saying “Feels fine to me” and then going “BUT THAT DOESN’T MEAN I DON’T WANT A TEST GUYS” is talking out of both sides of your mouth.
hdr is relatively new (2 yrs old) while st has been around for 15 yrs. it’s obvious that people playing st have had more time with the game to get better than say someone who is just being introduced to hdr (but you’d be surprised at how quickly up to speed some hdr players can bring it). alot of those top st only players would also be top hdr players if they put the time/effort to be good at it (actually, a good st player doesn’t really need much time to get up to speed if they played hdr, since the game is almost the same, and the skill foundation has already been established).
also, people need to stop saying the competition or entertainment value is weak for hdr, or as if st was better. if competition was weak, then afro legends would have definitely won again this year, the fact that a new player was able to win it, shows there is a desire by others to win - i’m sure it isn’t just snake eyez who has that desire, that is what breeds competition. next year will it be the same champion? who knows, since i’m sure afro, dgv, and others are still out to prove they can run things.
and seriously, there’s alot of players out there who are good, but for whatever reason have not made any effort to show up for big offline tourneys. they are content with playing online or just playing their circle of friends and whatnot. but say the tournament scene were to die out, i still see people playing and improving in st and hdr in their own circle/environment.
You are getting WAY too pissy on such a subject.
You accused me of spreading bullshit, yet NOTHING has been proven yet. So how is it bullshit? I’ve talked and read on some players concerns of the PS3 version and tested it out for myself. It’s all personal experience.
If a test is performed and finds out there is a problem, then there’s a problem and those people were right. If not, then those people will realize it was just in their head.
Calm the hell down please.
Regarding testing for input lag, am I correct the following are needed?
A LED connected to a button.
A camera capable of recording at 60fps or higher
A lagless TV (not LCD)
Then just repeat the same test as NKI did (Ryu cr. RH & Sim HP throw) and compare with his result.
Am I missing something?
snk I’m not sure I got trolled by you, I assume not since a lot of people would hate to see this get brought up again…
You cannot have it both ways man. First you said ST players have 15 years advantage (which is false, only some OG have played that long, there are a lot of new ST players with less than 3 years experiences) so if they win it’s not surprising, then you said HDR players don’t need the advantage since they can get good in short period of time because it’s HDR??!
This is true but doesn’t mean anything. You can be good @ ssf4 if you put in a lot of effort in it too, so?
The point I said previously is that a lot of those top ST-ONLY players, wouldn’t bother with HDR after they tried it.
So you wouldn’t be able to attract them to play @ offline tourney even if you say the game is so close to ST (which is again false, see previous posts, shouldn’t repeat…)
I wouldn’t say competition is weak, since there are a lot of very strong HDR players (but a lot of them start with ST, or play both ST & HDR, there are very few HDR-only TOP players).
But the average is definitely lower just for the fact that you cannot attract those TOP ST-players to participate (hence average is lower). Unless you can give me a list of HDR-ONLY players that compare roughly to the ST-ONLY list I shown.
So it is weaker than it would have been if it’s not HDR, but definitely not weak by any means.
Again you say a whole paragraph of things that are true but doesn’t have much value. If HDR is no longer featured at majors then you should not complain. There are still a group of people that play alpha series in their circle too…