From afar, I’d ask that everyone play both games. People can make a poll or whatever, but having the chance, play both. I would give an arm to be given this chance you are having.
Some high end multi-scan CRT TVs in the US have had inputs for 21-pin RGB except that they normally use a different proprietary pinout that’s not SCART (the Euro 21-pin standard for RGB) nor RGB-21 (the primary JP 21-pin standard for RGB) either. It’s pretty wacky and any TV accepting any form of 21-pin RGB is very rare in the US. I’m not even sure there would be more than one such TV among a thousand over here.
RGB is certainly ideal for analog but I think people are talking about VGA converters because they want it to connect straight to the Evo-standard Asus VH236H that, being a low-end monitor, only accepts analog through VGA. And to go from RGB to VGA, conversion to the higher frequency is required. Otherwise, most superguns output in composite so that would certainly be an option for any normal CRT TV (like the ones Evo already has). It won’t look pretty but it’s not like the fighting game scene has ever cared much about optimal picture quality.
haha I am glad someone else feels the same way. Forgot to throw in that having a GF doesn’t help the gaming situation either…
nevermind… …
Whether it’s ssf4, KoF, blaz blue or whatever…every player’s main goal is to fly to japan and defeat the japanese at a major. Playing HDR is really pointless, there is no ultimate goal. It’s on life support, and 2011 perhaps will be it’s last year.
Tourney length being tiresome really is an issue, and to be honest I don’t know why east coast tournies run late so systematically. Evo has many times the entrants of any east coast tourney and somehow manages to consistently run things on time, and as I said before, even at SB, once I actually had a time slot, I ran the HDR tourney within one hour. There’s really no reason we need to have a fatalist attitude of “tournies always run late” and that we can’t aim to run tourneys with that kind of speed.
To VFF: I see where you’re going with the argument that using cabinets means that everyone is on the same playing field, in theory. There are two problems I immediately see with it though.
First is that, if I use Season’s Beatings as an example, using cabinets actually meant that nobody was on an equal playing field, because there literally was no two identical control setups - the cabs were just disparate and the sticks / buttons all had varying degrees of “workingness”. At SB, we had to use a coin flip in a tournament match to determine who would get to play on a cab, because both sides specifically preferred one cab over the other. How do you reconcile that with your theory of flattened differences?
Second is that I’m not sure how the cabinets’ “everyone uses the same control setup” is even preferable to the consoles’ “everyone uses the control setup they like best”. Surely, for high-level competition, you’d want everyone involved to perform at 100% of their ability, right? When everyone can use the stick they like best (on console), that’s what happens, doesn’t it? As opposed to a cabinet where there is always that doubt of “Did I just lose because this particular stick / button is defective, or that I’m too unused to it?”.
Preemptive comment: You might say that the solution to everyone not being used to a particular cabinet’s controls is to imitate Japan (once again) and have a thriving culture of identical arcades around each corner throughout the continent. Somehow I don’t think that is going to happen within our lifetimes.
Yeah, I was just trying to highlight that the way you phrased things made it sound like there was this huge scene all across the us, oh and then a couple events over on the wc. In reality the handful of events on the ec and wc make up 90%+ of the “national scene”. In other words, saying that a game is only favored on a given coast really means it’s about a 50/50 split.
I think it’s really sad that there’s an all or nothing crowd on either side. I would rather support any SF2, even CE or the US version of AE, over games like SF4. That some people are so fickle that they can’t get past the minute differences between ST and HDR blows my mind.
Yeah, I’m curious to hear what Shari hears back from Wizard.
I suspect the same. HDR and GGPO have been out for long enough that I really doubt any large influx of players will start playing. I think it’s possible that a small amount of currently online-only players will start showing up to tourneys. But it’s equally likely that others will quit going for various reasons. I think keeping consistent numbers at this point is the most practical goal to shoot for.
If you’re going to use head to head setups for cabinets then everything must be even. You can’t mix and match controller types or cabinets. The control panels must be the exact same models and parts. The cabinets must be the same as well, sit down, same model, and same monitor size. Season’s Beatings was not a well run arcade tournament in my opinion, but it was also the first attempt at an ST arcade tournament at a major like that in a while, so it wasn’t destined to be perfect really. I think it is obvious now after SBR that mixing and matching cabinets is not ideal.
Take two identical cabs and place them head to head. The only thing that the coin flip should ever determine in an arcade environment is who plays on the 1P side and who plays on the 2P side. Everything else should be standard outside of that leaving no room for differences for either player. The 1P cabinet should be identical to the 2P cabinet. Anyone who has been to Japan can tell you that 99% of ST setups in Japan are exactly like this.
Because everyone is using the same controllers and the playing field is even and regulation. Why do you think that every single SSFIV or VF or Tekken cabinet in Japan uses the exact same parts? That the standard for those games is a Sanwa JFL with a shaft cover and Sanwa 30mm buttons in the close curved layout? Why don’t they allow everyone to plug their own controllers into the cabinets? Why don’t they mix and match 8-way gates or Seimitsu parts?
It’s because when everyone is using the same parts there is no question who is better. When you have people mixing and matching controllers someone is bound to have an unfair advantage beyond the scope of the actual game mechanics and character matches. There’s a reason why every single new arcade game in Japan has a standard control panel specifically designed for the game that arcade operators use.
If this is truly high level then why isn’t everyone playing evenly controller wise? If people need shortcuts like pads or custom controllers to perform at a competitive level then why not allow full on macro functions or turbo controllers for players who need those? If John Q Scrub can’t perform certain moves or combos on a stick then he should absolutely be allowed to use turbos and macro 720s or macro combos so he can perform at 100% right? How exactly is it ‘high level’ when people are using shortcuts like custom controllers?
And what kind of garbage cabinets are you using where there is any doubt that the buttons are not working? Every single cabinet I’ve ever played on had no issues of button or joystick inputs. If you properly setup your arcade equipment there shouldn’t be any room for people to complain that the joysticks cost them the match. If arcade hardware was a problem like you mistakenly think it is do you think the Japanese ST scene would have lasted this long? Sounds like you have never played on a proper arcade setup.
Arcades will never make a comeback in the U.S. obviously, but ST is making a comeback without them. If we want to keep an international scene around for ST then eroding the differences between the various regions is a must. We already changed our speed for ST tournaments from U.S. T3 to T2 to match the Japanese scene. Now people are realizing that console ST is a joke, and that a return to CPSII, what the Japanese play on, is also a must. We’ve already seen people starting to purchase cabinets and superguns as part of this effort. The last steps are to chip away at the remaining differences, making head to head setups the standard, making the LS-32 the standard for those setups. Which is how 99% of Japanese setups are including the ones at X-Mania, Star Cup, and Super Battle Opera.
The more we play HDR, use HDTVs, use consoles, use non-standard controllers, the more we fall behind the Japanese. And the Japanese are the best ST players in the world who have taken the game to the highest levels. We will never be as good as them in SFII because we take too many shortcuts. They’ve evolved ST to a point where we’ve seen Hawk players doing walking 720s…something basically no one thought a year ago was possible to use in a match. The U.S. scene is incapable of evolving ST so they change the motions for 720s into easier commands to make walking super throws possible. I know people think that playing HDR, using pads and other shortcuts, is ‘high level’ SFII, but it’s not even close to where the Japanese are in SFII with ST.
The apparently immortal input shortcut argument is just daft beyond belief. What exactly are you people doing? Assuming that your opponent will fuck up?
…what if he doesn’t?
I just don’t understand it.
Corrosive - Just because you can hook your controller up to the cab, doesn’t mean you will enjoy a lag free experience.
They had PS2 ports built into the Guilty Gear cab they had at WTXI. One of our best Anji pad players tried using them and found that they were laggy.
You’d have to ask Grahf how he felt about the converters… but saying “Converters on a NAOMI hardware game are laggy so we shouldn’t use converters on CPS2 games because they might lag” is flimsy logic. If you’re just looking for excuses then you’re going to find them regardless of anything I say.
Ok yeah its all good man… and I can’t speak for most of these players on if they actually plan to go to EVO but hope they can. Some other top HDR players include -
Thelo
Bluetallcans
Aqua Snake
Evoanon
Cvital
Lyghts Out
JigglyNorris
Zaspacer
Exposedd
Geneijin
Kuroppi
Antagonist
Mongolorobokop
Infamousone
Dirtmaster
Egotrip
Est 1991
Possum
N. Caesar
And that’s just namin a few there’s a lot more names of pretty good HDR players I didn’t say. I know for a fact that me, infamousone, cvital, and lyghts out are plannin to go to EVO. Pretty sure Thelo, aquasnake, and evoanon are gonna go as well but who knows…
I didn’t mean to imply that converters shouldn’t be used, ever. Just that input lag can be an issue with them, and because many pad players are aware of this foible, they might hesitate to enter a tournament they aren’t sure they’ll be able to use their controllers to maximum efficiency in.
As for excuses not to play ST, I’ve had one for quite some time: The mountain of condescending shit that the HDR community has been expected to eat with a smile on its face - and if ever it kicked, IT was somehow the asshole.
After reading the things some of the more abusive ST partisans have said, I’d consider it a personal failure if I ever so much as accidentally provided them with competition, entertainment, or any form of satisfaction whatsoever. There are other games to play, and better people to play them with.
I would rather HDR coexist with ST - I really would! - but the ST community seems hell bent on killing HDR before it has a chance to die a natural death.
… and FWIW, you’re not on my list of “ABUSIVE ST ASSHOLES”
EDIT - there are only 3 people on it, 2 of whom should really have had more class
So Virtua Fighter Four you’re sayin that pad players have an advantage over players that use arcade sticks?
And am I usin shortcuts when I play HDR on my Xbox 360 wireless controller usin the analog stick then?
Dwelling on that… I’ve seen stuff like this and it never gets resolved. Reminds me of Thief vs Thief 2 debates I used to read. Shit’s fatal. More importantly, we just need numbers now. I know that I did my fair share for HDR, so regardless of how I feel about the game, I gave it like 2 years or so of good will. I just wish I knew what was stopping some players from showing up. This isn’t how things are offline, but there are people who think so in my view. We can’t afford to validate online, we just can’t. It’s not ideal now, maybe in the future, but not now. You’re not gonna wake up and play some games in your PJs and be considered a top player, I mean folks who just never show up, you’re just not. Even if you show up to your first tourney and win, you still HAD TO SHOW UP. You might as well be that creepy dude in North Carolina recording people and just trolling everyone inadvertently with a VCR and a camcorder otherwise.
I’d wager real life is a factor, economically there are definitely ways fighting game players help to shoulder cost/burden in these cases. Housing people, shared meals… there’s ways around this stuff.
Screw keeping up with the Japanese.
Turbo 3 > Turbo 2
HDR > ST
Consoles > arcade cabs
Customizability > Sticks > controllers
720’s were easier than the HCBx2-F motion.
Anyone who thinks the new motion is easier is insane, doesn’t play Zangief, and likes to whine like a mule.
Zangief also has a harder time doing the Green Hand now. The motion was nerfed.
Before when he was walking forward, all he had to do was press down+P when he wanted the Green Hand.
Now when he’s walking, he has to press down, then forward. Tell me that’s not a nerf.
btw, i’ve noticed throughout this thread that st enthusiast seem to have this overwhelming belief that hdr players are far inferior when it comes to competition. why is this the case? i’ve seen some hdr players compete with st players (in hdr and st) and give them quite a challenge. i’ll go as far and say that some of the people i’ve played with regularly have given some of the best st players decent competition.
You’re definitely right. There are a lot of very strong HDR players that give OG ST players a lot of troubles.
If you are referring my post, I was just saying that there are very few HDR-ONLY top players.
But there are a lot of ST-ONLY top players.
Actually in royalphlush’s post, I recognized quite a few players that are better @ ST, or HDR players that came on ggpo and play level with OG ST players (I asked one of them why he is here and he answered “I play HDR doesn’t mean I prefer it”)
I’m not against the HDR-players, I have no bias with them. In fact a lot of them are chill and friendly.
I just don’t agree with HDR’s game design and that’s my own opinion (although shared by many).
You guys also have to factor in the atmosphere & mood of the people organizing things. If they are pro ST, there’s a good chance that community will not be supportive towards HDR. Could it be in the EC OGs that you guys are so into ST, most HDR players are intimidated to say anything? No one likes to be the guy that rocks the boat, especially they dont got the “credentials”…
Pimpgui-Sure the green hand & 720s are easier to do in ST but the normal SPD motion & new hop makes Gief so so much better then ST.
Control Panels are a huge issue with this. For some reason finding used Seimitsu panels are soooo damn difficult that it’s not even funny. I got lucky and the second cab that I have came with a Seimitsu panel. Now I wanted to get two Astro city seimitsu panels, but I don’t find it justifiable to pay 280 dollars for panels from per.
Even rambo going to japan couldn’t find Astro panels and or it being Seimitsu at all. So he bought me a Sanwa Blast panel. It seems as if Sega discontinued all astro equipment.