Probably because derpdown offense IS boring to watch. It’s very different to see Cammy go EX divekick into whatever and to see someone like Valle open people up with Ryu. The first just feels derpy and cheap, the latter interesting and in a way honest and earned.
no skill nigga…NO SKILL!!
Probably for the same reasons some people can’t watch Soccer.
I won’t lie, seeing someone get rushed down is more exciting than seeing people play keep away. Never mind how stupid things get when both players are playing keep away. But I like watching Chris G spam his opponents to death, partly because he uses a character that doesn’t see much use (I like matches involving unused characters), but mainly because I want to see what his opponent does to get out of it.
No wonder that OmG iTz Andre is so popular…
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Speaking for myself here obviously but my stance on keep-away is that it’s a completely legitimate strategy. But if there’s one undeniable fact about keep-away strategy is that its REALLY annoying to play against. When you play against an offensive player, its much easier to handle because the opponent can fuck up by applying too much pressure and not carefully looking at what they’re doing. Defensive is a bit different…a defensive player just blocks a lot and plays much more safer whereas a keep-away player is forcing you to react because no matter where they are in the screen they are bombarding you with projectiles or long normals which can be quite frustrating if you worked your way in after a long battle to only watch your opponent dash under or on top of you to repeat the keep-away.
Its not hate, its just very annoying. At least for me.
I don’t play keepaway but i do understand and apreciate the skill it takes. I feel playing offensivley gives me the freedom to do what I want most of the time but keepaway players need react constantly to their opponent. I’ve also noticed morrigan is the only one getting all the hate don’t see people complaining about hawkeye or dormammu.
I think thats one of the reasons that style of play is so effective. When you get frustrated it changes your mind set you become more reckless and make more mistakes. The best way to play against a keepaway style is to keep calm.
The same reason why people don’t like campers in cod, socom, or any shooter.
All i know for sure is that top players don’t turtle.
There is a difference between being a turtle and being defensive. So…No offense there.
Being defensive you don’t take unneccessary risks and you keep things safe.
Being a turtle means you’re basically just sitting down being passive not doing much , probably a bit zoning , waiting for a better day.
It might be a good strategy. Doesn’t stop it from being lame and boring as hell to watch.
Actually, it’s not the strategy that’s boring to watch. It’s when the strategy is completely overwhelming to the guy in front that makes it boring to watch. People say Dieminion is boring, but his matches with Chi-Rithy are some of the most exciting SF4 games I’ve ever witnessed. The whole offense vs defense makes for very entertaining matches at a high enough level.
Though, cracking the defense of really defensive players and watching their world crumble has to be the most satisfying thing ever.
I’m not really sure what you mean by the difference between the two. I see them as the same. Nobody has ever done nothing in a fighting game and won tournaments. Being a turtle and adopting a defensive playstyle is the same thing imo.
Being a turtle/defense player means that you’re constantly out of reach. You attack when you’re advantageous, and you back off when you’re let. It’s about putting minimal risk in your gameplay, and playing a more reactive and fundamentally-rooted style. Classic examples would be a typical Guile or Dhalsim in an SF game. Their design naturally caters to a more defensive and control-type gameplay. They control the pace of the game and present obstacles to the opponent. They pay attention to your movement and responses and react accordingly, hopefully to punish you with damage, or at the very least, put themselves back into a solid position where you’re unable to reach them, but they’re able to act safely.
But this is due to the fact that your average spectator or player doesn’t really understand or appreciate highly strategic and defensive play. They just want to see combos and people getting hit.
This kind of question doesn’t get anyone anywhere.
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Some of the most exiting matches ever have been utter lame fest.
Thrax / MSP matchs between Thrax himself and Yipes are have also been a good match of the both extremes.
I wouldn’t charge a gigantic Russian man. Would you?
I wouldn’t charge a man who can throw fire out of his hands. Would you?
I wouldn’t charge a woman with legs the size of tree trunks and spiked bracelets. Would you?
I would probably charge a transvestite with a whip.
I disagree. I think discussing this issue can open people up to why defensive-styles of play are a very viable form of strategy and have been widely adopted by a variety of players. For every poster in here who will complain about defensive strategies, there will hopefully be at least few people who will try to explain why it’s so effective.
A classic ST match that’s famous on both sides of the Pacific. Even in a match as bad as Guile v. O.Sagat (At least 7-3 in Sagat’s favor), Kurahashi shows off his superior knowledge of his character and of the matchup.
How was that exciting? Because you can’t imagine a reason for why Sagat would want to do anything other than tigershot? That’s not excitement, that’s just an understanding of what’s to be expected. Now if you say you like it because it’s what you know, then I’ll just stop. Just please don’t call that exciting. Action is exciting. That’s just…I don’t know. Understandable? Like Daigo vs Infiltration was exciting as fuck and I don’t even like SF4. That last match was…understandable. Sagat has a real fast fireball and his uppercut can hit you out of the air where you can’t block so you have to wait for his fireball. Then again I was one of those weird kids that got excited when he was able to do his times tables as quickly as his adding…tables.
No one is denying the fact that it’s viable but you aren’t explaining how this will get any of us anywhere. It’ll let you talk about why you think it’s okay to turtle and even then you’ve only said that it’s worth talking about because it’s viable. It’s effective because it allows your opponent to try things and make mistakes whereas simply sitting there chucking plasma and holding down back is going to keep you safe and thus mitigate risk to the lowest degree. A big part of the satisfaction of high level Street Fighter, for me at least, is overcoming the risks involved in moving around the screen with any character. Almost like being at home anywhere on the screen regardless whether or not there are disadvantages to being in that particular spot. I started to see this way when I learned about option selects.
I don’t mean to place intention anywhere or on anyone but I play games for the excitement of doing things in a digital environment that I am not capable of doing in real life. Given that I can’t chuck plasma in real life, I understand why full screen stand offs might be fun for you, but you can down back up close to them and not worry about getting hit if you truly understand your opponent and not just your character. If you understand your character well enough to feel safe anywhere, you have learned how to reduce risk in any or most situations which can lead to play that may be deemed “turtly” or defensive to appear as rush down simply because you aren’t cowering on the other side of the screen and peaking over when you hear he’s reloading. I didn’t like campers in FPS games, either, so I stopped playing them and came to Street Fighter, 3s to be precise. I thought that maybe I made a mistake in doing so when SF4 came out and turtle became the bees knees but then I saw that infiltration vs daigo match and I realized it was just my new competition.
Maybe the Japanese got it right by disallowing money to be put on the line. It’s all about a love for the game over there and that is extremely admirable to me.
Sorry for talking your ear off.
It’s exciting and admirable because every motion made by each character had meaning behind it. John Choi, one of the best players in US in ST at the time, was unable to win a match that largely favors his character. Despite this, Kurahashi was able to dissect Choi’s fireball pattern, punish him for it, while keeping himself in relative safe positions. Anyone who’s played this match knows how difficult a task this is for Guile. He is not just randomly throwing out attacks and hoping it sticks, every move he does is in reaction to a weakness or pattern that he observed in Choi’s approach to this matchup. Admittedly, unless you know what’s going on, it probably won’t be exciting to the average person that doesn’t understand or play ST, but it’s exciting to those of us who do.
People hate defensive strategies primarily because a) it’s boring to watch, and b) it can be difficult and/or frustrating to fight against this style of play by an expert player. That being said, this topic will open up to discussion that will hopefully educate and inform people who find it boring to match by explaining the level and depth of strategy and execution being deployed. It’s similar to how people find Baseball boring, unless you understand and/or play Baseball, in which case you appreciate the game for what it is. It’s often a slow-paced and methodical sport that rewards people who understand the minute details of the game. Strategy. As far as fighting this style of play, it really boils down to exploration of the meta-game in order to further overcome obstacles in your game (by discussing and experimenting with how to defeat solid defensive plans), as well as reinforcing your fundamental skills as a fighting game player in order to use game mechanics to dissect a carefully-constructed turtle strategy.
I really don’t understand why you brought up the topics of FPS games or how the Japanese don’t allow money to be on the line. Campers exist plenty in FPS game because it’s a viable strategy. You’re placing yourself in an advantageous position where you have line of sight and positioning. Is it glorious? No, but it can be effective if done properly. The Japanese do play for money and do gamble, but not in such obvious fashions. They have work arounds for making money off Pachinko, and their tournaments do give prize payouts, so technically that’s playing for money.
I don’t mind you talking my ear off, Lord knows I do it plenty to other people. If anything, I appreciate the fact that you’re willing to discuss your opinion, instead of just popping your head in this topic, posting a one-liner, and disappearing like most of the trolls/idiots that are ever-present on the internet.
If you’re comparing turtling to cowering then you still don’t understand it.