A easy solution should be a pc release for their modern title . Pc hardware improve a lot the stability on the online match .Nothing miracle but it’s better than nothing .
As long as few people complain on capcom forum about their poor netcode and matchmaking. COJ will still do the same pathetic job on the online aspect of their games .
I complained over 5 months on capcom unity and I could count the number of people on my hand that was unhappy of their game(s) online. That is a serious problem that will be not resolve soon .
A lot of people are more preoccupy by the news characters over a decent netcode .
Someone needs to quiet folks that think GGPO will magically let them have ‘lagless’ games with people across another coast, continent, or whatever.
In any FPS with roll-back code… would you rather play someone on the same coast nearby, or have a crappy lag-fest with folks tens of thousands of miles away?
GGPO isn’t a magic pill that eliminates lag, but rather hides it via roll-back. Ideally good connections should rarely roll-back. Roll-backs can look ugly sometimes
Input delay is a magic trick that ‘smoothes’ out online play by making everything come out a few hundred milliseconds later, after you have a smoke, you can come back and see your wonderful memorised series execute. Looks pretty but doesn’t fulfill.
Small hiccups in an otherwise identical game to offline > changing the entire game because it’s online
There’s some ‘blame the victim’ going on here with 3SOE, also. I doubt every person having problems is abusing the settings or playing people in Tibet.
If GGPO was implemented in MvC3 it would do more harm than good. You still have to deal with connection issues and combine that with rollback things would just go sour. 3S:O is a prime example of how ugly rollback can get for a slower, more methodical game. Now imagine that in a fast paced game like MvC3. Plus it’s not like GGPO fixes everything. Internet connection amongst the players is still a big/very important variable.
The rollbacks mainly are used to cover lag spikes.So if you’re rolling back a lot it’s probably because you’re fighting some dude who’s probably got a fisher price style internet connection. I think you’re thinking of match desyncs. Where say you play a match, save the replay, look at said replay, and see something entirely different.
more than likely whats going on is that you have people whom are informed about how to use GGPO and setting up games through match making which is pretty crap in this one. Its forcing people whom have unstable connections to play against 1 another. Then those people are jumping onto shoryuken.com and making complaints about why GGPO sucks. Then you guys are taking that information and spinning it into your argument when its flawed from the beginning, the source of the information.
Just because the match making is off doesn’t mean that GGPO sucks. They’re 2 different things.
if someones connection is that bad, it doesn’t matter whether or not you’re playing sf4 online or a GGPO game. Its going to be ass.
GGPO only rolls back when the connection isn’t stable and you’re not going to have a good connection with everyone. The only time GGPO rolls back for me is when is someone has bad internet obviously, sharing a connection and not telling someone their family members are surfing the net as they play, or your opponents connection is so far away the game can’t stay in sync.
the whole crux of this argument hinges on realistic expectations of online play and there are some people who just don’t know what that is supposed to entitle.
if you go GGPO, you can actually train for tournaments when you pick your opponents properly. Offline timing becomes a factor and I’ve even learned how to play several games because of GGPO. If it was a laggy shit fest like sf4\mvc3 online, learning the intricacies of the game are literally impossible.
yes GGPO will roll back on bad connections and even here or there on good connections, realistic expectations of what net code should be. However, those are welcomed IMO because my offline timing is allowing me to actually play the game properly over 90% of the time. On sf4\mvc3, the input delay is so bad that you basically have to be psychic to play the game properly and you can never play the game properly 5% of the time because input lag is there 24\7.
yea ggpo does piss me off when I get dropped inputs or when the game rolls back but thats due to bad connections, not GGPO. However there are times when I play where you can barely spot any of it and that right there wins the argument. because no matter how many times you play sf4\mvc3 online, that input lag fucks the game up so bad you can’t even play properly for 1 game and I’ve played maybe 1000 games of sf4\mvc3 online combined.
@ this point I would choose ggpo because it offers me the ability to use my offline timing and play properly on good connections and that is never the case for sf4\mvc3.
and for all the people who hate on GGPO but like sf4\mvc3 online think about what you’re saying. GGPO = no input delay, sf4\mvc3 = random amounts of input delay per second. Now why is it that we go out of way for to use TVs that don’t lag for tournaments but when it comes to online play, its a good thing? if its bad for offline, its 100x worse for online.
Rollbacks happen when lag confuses the system and the game rolls back to what the system saw before the lag. It’s what the rollbacks are. The game going back to what was happening before the lag. Nothing more or less. And yeah, most FPSs use rollback netcode. I know for a fact that all CoD games do.
Now here’s the big thing: without rollback netcode, you just end up with teleporting, dropped inputs, freezing, and input delay.
On a shitty connection, regardless what sort of netcode you have, there will be a drawback, though with rollbacks theoretically, you would have a much more even experience. Even taking into account the rollbacks (which is all you would have to worry about), I don’t see how anyone would be against it.
It’s not a panacea, but it definitely makes the game more playable on good and decent connections. Play someone on a shit connection and no matter what netcode you have, you will want to kill yourself.
GGPO does what mvc3 does already. GGPO has the input delay function and you can crank it up to 9frames of input delay making it play\look like what it does right now. However ggpo can also set the input delay to 0 so people like me who want as little as input delay as possible.
I can crank it up on GGPO and play against japan the game is super smooth for being a 250+300ms connection which under the usual input delay of 0-1, its pretty bad. Lots of roll backs and dropped inputs but thats Florida to Japan. I can’t expect it to be god like aka realistic expectations.
there is no good argument for GGPO not being in the games. Absolutely zero. Input delay to make the game super smooth is there and no input delay is there. Why not let the consumer decide instead of pushing down x product down our throats? its a win-win-win. Pro’s win because we can play with our offline timing, scrubs win because their game is super smooth and capcom wins because more people will pick up the game because there is a scene for it online and possibly make fighters more popular than FPS\RTS games.
any argument ANY person could make for it NOT being there is lunacy.
Maybe it’s not implemented because companies don’t want to pay Ponder for use/optimization of the GGPO netcode? It’s not a good argument, but it’s an argument nonetheless. Besides is the average consumer/scrub gonna even bother with the latency settings? Or even know what they do?
That isn’t quite right. Rollbacks happen when the other guy doesn’t do what your system predicted, and it takes a noticeable amount of time for them to resync (the best example being when somebody jumps and your system doesn’t recognize it). Teleporting is *the *classic indicator of rollback lag, especially in fighting games, where a dash or a jump has big consequences from one input. Think Input delay=under water, Rollback=teleport (including the terrible invisible sweep where you just suddenly appear knocked down).
In general the strong argument can be made for rollback for any fighting game, with the caveat that your experience decays SUBSTANTIALLY past a certain connection speed… and is by everyones account much more demanding on system resources.
They could have easily just made their own rollback code and skipped the licensing issue all together. This debate precedes the release of SF4, so its not just a legacy issue, either. The companies have said all along that Rollback doesn’t work well for these games, and its really the simplest answer to why they won’t use it.
capcom not using it to avoid paying ponder more money is crazy because they’re putting out a shittier product on purpose.
no the average consumer\scrub won’t bother with the settings and with that, you can just use a default setting for those players. Let the people who want the GGPO like connection go in and mess with the options then because we already know what to tweak. iirc, the current 3so provides that “casual” option right now for default with an input lag of 2, its so the casuals\scrubs don’t have to mess with anything and they can just play. The people whom are super picky about 0 input delay can set it to 0 because they know whats going on.
Lastly, its not that hard to describe what input lag is. Would probably take a small paragraph and no more than 4 sentences.
" adjusting the input delay function allows you to control how much delay is there for the game. The more input delay a game has, the smoother it will look but your inputs will register slower. The less input delay a game has, the faster your inputs will register but the connection can skip."
I just find it odd that a technical problem is taking 11 years to figure out. Especially when the western developers already figured out a way to make graphic intensive games with roll back style net code in 1999.
I bought the first version of 3so, cvs2 and HF on xbox1 and the reason they were bad online back then according to capcom were because of “technical problems” but games like counter strike didn’t seem affected by it. Here we are 11 years later and guess what, we still have “technical problems”…
The first time around, I gave them swinging room. Games had just started getting popular online and their was no status quo as to what the proper way to use the internet would be for gaming. The 2nd time around, there is no excuse to be this bad. Gaming industry has had 11 years to evolve the online component and it has, GGPO has been around since 2k7 and sf4\mvc3 6 still can’t out do counter strike 1.6 from 1999 in terms of online play.
People that actually do some research and realise capcom modern games online are shit
**What is the solution to show Capcom they are wrong with their online coding or a good netcode is important for a multiplayer game ? **
i see 2 problems on this situation
Capcom japan really doesn’t try that hard to make something decent online.
The fighting community himself . This can be split between the people unable to perceive the bad delay input , those that don’t care of the online and minority that acknowledge this big flaws. I remembered being look like a real moron on capcom unity because I denounced mvsc3 poor online mode. I still remembered one guy from capcom unity saying he was able to play with Japanese on mvsc3 without any lag at all.
As long as the poor netcode doesn’t affect their selling , nothing will change quickly if you ask me
point to big titles that wouldn’t do that many copies if there were no online for the game .
Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2’s launch was a huge success, the game generated $550 million during its first five days on the market. MW2 actually broke Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince’s five-day global box-office record of $394 million. It’s expected that MW3, which should be out 2011, will do even better than Modern Warfare 2.
the game sold approximately 4.7 million copies worldwide in 24 hours.[15] On June 15, 2010, Activision confirmed that the game had sold over 20 million copies worldwide[16][17] and it is the second best-selling game of all time in both the UK and the US.[18][19][20][21]
remove the online aspect to COD and there is 0 chance that it sells that many copies.
so, good online game with proper support from developers ournament scene = 20 million + units
horrible online game with little support from developers and a god like tournament scene = 2 million units
capcom is potentially losing on 10x the amount of customers. Sure not everyone is going to play a fighting game over a FPS one because of the simplicity but no one is going to play a competitive game online if you can’t compete properly. I don’t think Capcom understand how many more customers they’re losing out on by not embracing the internet properly. I can pull probably 10 more games\companies like WoW that are BASED around the internet and exponentially bigger than Capcom. They don’t have to do it for us, they can do it for their money grubbing selves. With 20 million units sold, does capcom realize how much extra money they would receive off DLC?!!
@ one point fighting games were 100x bigger than the FPS ones. Its just that when the internet became part of the successful equation, Capcom said fuck that and the FPS companies embraced it. Not making it up, I’ve been around that long and saw it happen. Now a decade later, the FPS companies are out selling the biggest, newest movies and capcom is barely making a blip on the radar screen.
even if they were to incorporate GGPO into a big modern release title, there is still no guarantee but if there is 1 thing to take from this, its that there is no chance for a shitty online component to do that well. You ALWAYS need to have that great online component to it to even stand a shot @ making the bigger bucks. So if they never take the risk, they’ll never be bigger. You can’t point to one big super title and say the online for the game is worse than mvc3.
Better Online ( netcode , online components , etc) = bigger sells and i completely agree. It’s kind of funny capcom haven’t realise it because they are greedy as hell . If they can find solution to dlc a lot of stuffs , i do not see any reason to not built a proper online mode for rising the selling of their games.
Why do you guys always specify GGPO rather than type of lag mitigation? I think it confuses the issue something fierce.
Still want to see someone quote Capcom saying they think online isn’t important. That’s like the big baseless speculation in here… ‘our answer is clearly the right one, so Capcom must just not care!’
I’ve always said BEFORE, a few years ago, that it doesn’t have to be GGPO, it can be anything that gets rid of the lag but after 3so the first one, cvs2, hyper fighting, sf4, ssf4, tvc, tvc uas, mvc3, umvc3, ssf4 ae, they just can’t seem to do it by themselves and they’ve had so many chances to do it right. What’s incredibly even more odd is that they act pretty much the same way online. To me, capcom has been reusing the cvs2 net code from 01 and hasn’t changed it since but I can’t actually prove that.
Fuck the bullshit, just use GGPO already. We don’t need anymore failed attempts, we need something that works. That’s 10 games that capcom themselves has tried to make their own version of stable net code. Its just not working.
you call it speculation because you just started playing this year. This is actually a long ass process and many of the cvs2 players from xbox1 just aren’t here anymore to talk about it. Like i’ve said to you before, experience matters when talking about this because of perspective. You have 0 perspective about the process we’ve been going through for the last decade.
