What I find funny is how often the question reaches Capcom employees and their answer is that modern consoles can’t support it. At the same time, some random DBZ game has GGPO built in with FOUR PLAYER FULL 3D FREE ROAMING BATTLES.
Just saying. You can’t rely entirely on what you’re told as being the reason something isn’t the way it should be.
*Edit: As far as GGPO in 3SOE goes, a large part of the problem is two things:
One, people keep playing any match they can get instead of playing the top two pings. You get Green, Yellow, Orange, and Red. You play on anything less than Yellow and it will be complete shit.
Second, people turn down the GGPO Smoothing setting to 0 and expect magic to happen. Leave the shit at Default 2. Makes a much smoother experience for everyone. I mean, if you absolutely have to change something, change it to one.
bmckay, the DBZ game kind of proves the opposite of what you’re saying.
DBZwhatever and 3SOE show that both Namco and Capcom are willing to use GGPO or just rollback code when appropriate. Given that, why aren’t either company using it for their mainline games? Remember, simplest answer is usually right.
drowsy, been hearing some ugly things about rollbacks, especially at the end of matches. Like, somebody wins, it rolls, and the match is going on behind the KO screen.
That’s not the point. The point is that Capcom has a history of saying shit like, “Street Fighter 4 being 3D makes GGPO not work because it requires too much memory.” Then we have a 3D game with MORE 3D and GGPO.
You have to understand what I’m saying. I’m not talking about whether it’s a testbed for the technology or a mainline game. The fact that it is in a game which should theoretically require more memory at the game’s base is what I’m talking about.
To use an anology (that will be bad): Ford is saying that four people can’t fit in their cars because the doors won’t close, but Honda has cars that are smaller that fit six people.
They never said that 3D games can’t have GGPO, they said that 3D fighters can’t have GGPO. Are you expecting Dragon Ball: Zenkai Battle Royale to be played in EVO?
“should theoretically” is a big jump. You have no idea about the physics involved, the other systems, the complexity of the models, or anything.
Point is the same, “Why isn’t namco willing to use GGPO for TTT2 or SC5?” They’re clearly willing to use the technology, and if its easy/possible, and there’s a lot of demand, it should be the obvious choice… and yet for some reason it isn’t.
The only people I hear complaining about it are the people who can’t figure out how to properly use it. ** If you abuse ANY net code past its limitations, its going to act like shit.** That’s why its important to have experience when talking about this stuff because some 12 year old kid who knows nothing about GGPO can jump onto forums and start calling it the worst shit ever and 200 pro’s whom are glad they got it aren’t posting on forums because they’re too busy playing online.
GGPO when used responsibly has no competition for fighting games. In fact, no other games is half as good as GGPO online. There is ggpo and then everything else.
just seems like a business decision. The licensing contract is more than likely being handled 2 ways. Ponder is getting paid x amount for every copy capcom sells or capcom is paying him a 1 time fee per game.
hypothetically, GGPO is cutting into the profits of capcom so capcom keeps “trying” to make their own version of net code to cut GGPO out of the equation so they can make all the money but I haven’t seen much trying on capcoms end. vanilla sf4 and mvc3 are the exact same net code even though they’re 3 years apart. sfxt has already announced no GGPO so its going to suck online too.
my 866mhz processor could run counter strike 1.6 which had roll back technology while being a graphic intensive game for the time and a modern console system which is just basically a beefed up computer with a good graphics processor can’t do the same? you have to remember that the GGPO\roll back style net code was developed first by the PC FPS industry which ALWAYS create graphically intensive games and they were doing this 11 years ago.
and say for arguments sake that it IS the graphics causing the problem, why not just build the games so they’re less graphics intensive so there is room for ggpo? a game doesn’t need to look super crisp to be a good fighter, its why people still play kof 98\ST and no one plays DOA any more.
the question then is, why not use non-ggpo rollback code? The issue is substantially beyond the specifics of GGPO. Like you said, the technology isn’t exactly new or mysterious.
And like I said, PC gaming and shooters aren’t good parallels for console gaming and fighters.
Pounder have said in the wake up srk << To built a proper netcode , It takes time and it’s something that should be built early in the game development>> . The main problem with this is the money and time invest to make a good one. Capcom don’t consider online experience as something valuable to increase the sells.That is one of the reason they recycle their netcode since sf4 vanilla.
I mentioned already, Harada doesn’t believe in GGPO. He thinks it’s much better investing time on designing a more efficient data transfer than on GGPO, since that is what which will truly reduce lag.
Apply the question to Capcom then, with 3SO and HDR being rollback based, but SFxT, Marvel, and SF4 not so much.
Should note that this discussion started before SF4 was out, so ‘they already had SF4 code’ isn’t really an excuse, and if they ‘don’t think the online experience is important to sales’, somebody might wanna tell their producers that.
3SO is already a good example of how GGPO is not a magic cure, if you have been paying attention to the complains people have for that game’s online. Making a good online for a fighting game has never been a trivial task, Virtual Fighter 5 had one of the most lag-free experience we’ll ever get in a fighting game, yet they achieved that by making the game’s online as barebones as possible with no spectator mode, no lobbies or rooms, no character or stage select. Is that what you want for UMvC3? You can hate on Capcom but how many fighting games from other developers have an online that’s acceptable? There’s only a few that can be mentioned, including Blazblue and ports of old games. You can stick to playing those games if you want good online so much.
GGPO is made independently by one guy who doesn’t have a whole lot of pull in the industry, it’s great so it has credibility with us, but that doesn’t mean shit to capcom of japan, that’s why it’s not in street fighter IV. That question has been answered quite a few times in the past. This is why I don’t think the question “if ggpo is so great why doesn’t everyone use it?” is legit.
Politics is why most games don’t use it, regardless of how good ggpo is or is not in 3d based engines.
Rollback code exists aside from GGPO, and like I said, was used before SF4 came out. The politics argument seems kind of presumptuous to me, you’re basically saying you know better than the game designers and/or they’re lying, and are willing to make an inferior product for no good reason. You guys have to quit focusing on GGPO and start looking at the bigger picture.
I ABOSOLUTELY would take good netplay at the expensive of lobbies or spactator modes… I would be happy if mvc3 worked okay but still lacked features, and I will hate UMVC3 if it has the same shitty netplay but with spectator mode.
and about 3sO, it’s great, nothing is a magic cure but 3sO is far more playable at long distances than any other online console fighter I have. Remember the huge bitchfest of how 3s online was terrible because of input delay? placebo effect runs rampant.
man… I presume nothing, this has been said in many interviews with capcom.
I’d like to see where they said they won’t use GGPO because they dont’ like/don’t care about it’s designer. I’ll be happy to admit I’m wrong given proof.
I never claimed they said that, but I will check around and see if I can remember what interview in the sea of hundreds I’ve seen in the last few years that referenced the reasons ggpo are not used…
I don’t see how it’s hard to believe though, why would capcom be gung ho to pay for and adapt a technique from a guy outside of the industry they have no evidence will enhance sales of their product? It took threads like this to finally get them to take notice. It’s not all about gameplay.
MVC3 existing as is, is a argument in itself against the notion that capcom has only the most optimal experience in mind. I don’t think the developers intended it to be terrible, and I imagine with less corporate pressure they would have taken the time to make sure it was on par with everything else.