Why can't we have GGPO for UMVC3?

Summarily, you are making my point, again- you don’t see what would be in it for Capcom to not use a superior netcode, and therefore you assume that they have a good reason. Netplay has been terrible in fighting games for a decade, especially outside of Japan. Capcom’s current methods are clearly Japan-centric, and there are plenty of people across the globe who are fine with the way things are, and I don’t particularly fault them for thinking this way. It is not a matter of Capcom thinking their methods are better, it’s that they’re not convinced that they need to change anything. Why should they? Even if GGPO implementation went amazingly well, it requires Capcom to make an investment (financially, in terms of development time, etc) for what would seem to be a marginal improvement in quality, but not in something that would guarantee to make them any actual increase in revenue. If a new game might sell a million copies, is there any evidence that having netplay which is doubly accurate would make the game sell a million and one copies?

And with regards to the comments of official spokespeople at Namco, Capcom etc- what else would they be saying?
-“GGPO works better than what we have, but we’re not going to use it”?
-“We might use it later, but it’s too late in the development process so our next 2 games will have the standard, inferior netcode”?
-“We’re contractually obligated to this other company, so which product is better doesn’t really matter?”

This isn’t to say that there aren’t people who genuinely believe that the status quo is better, but under what circumstances would you expect developers to praise GGPO if they aren’t going to use it? To say that GGPO is incompatible with current hardware etc. is a political necessity in order to save face. The technology is untested commercially- if things pan out I would expect you to see it being used [even] more in newer games, or other netcode of a similar type.

do you not read my posts on purpose? this is like the 10th time I’ve had to go through this.

capcom on their own HAS never made a good net code from scratch in 10 years, they’ve all sucked pretty hard online and I’m just tired of giving them the benefit of the doubt that they’ll get it right. Pretty hard to make the same mistake for 10 years and say its technically impossible even though other people are already doing it.

They’ve had way too long to get it right and they can’t so fuck the bullshit and use something that works already aka GGPO in everything. We don’t need another failed attempt, we need something that works RIGHT now.

they’re not experts, they’re a business and any time a business can get away with doing less and gaining more they will every fucking time. Implementation obviously will cost more time and time = money. They already have 1 net code they just slap on everything and that takes 0 time to implement.

its the main reason I always bring up the argument that other games are WAY more popular online and popularity transitions into more money like with CoD and WoW examples. I’m trying to appeal the business side of the developers.

and for the record, these capcom “experts” you’re referring too couldn’t get any game to work properly over the internet and ponder, 1 man programming crew, basically out did an entire billion dollar company full of “experts”? not to mention that these “experts” haven’t provided 1 form of solid net code in 10 years. They don’t sound like experts anymore do they?

It’s not that it’s impossible, it’s that it’s vastly more taxing on system resources, because you need to keep savestates all over the place. It probably would be super impossible to implement GGPO in UMVC3 without completely rebuilding the game to deal with that.

Of course by that I mean they should have fucking done that in the first place.

bingo

Well , it seems you have a good argument to justify capcom decision all the time. How can you explain they have done the same mistake(s) twice in the lobby for mvsc3 ? If you look carefully , umvsc3 lobby does not display players ping again … How can you fuck up that this easily ? we talk about a game release in 2011… * I can’t read japanse but i’m sure you can’t kick people out of the room again …

Lol another fighting game that will be playable offline only . For a guy like me that need the internet to play another player. Im screw again . Awesome… If Snk pull off this shitty work in their game , they get big back clash .Capcom are immune to this , a lot of people will find a way to forgive them anyway , it is not like the same story repeat himself …

cant kick laggy buttholes AGAIN…>:(

I’ll just point out the obvious fact that Seth Killian himself stated that the developers of MvC3 are not interested/looked at him as if he was crazy for proposing on using GGPO for their netcode. And that they’ve refused subsequent propositions from S-Kill to use GGPO for UMvC3.

To answer the topic question: because Capcom doesn’t want to. Trying to go further only leads to speculation.

This is something rarely talk , but this is another good reason capcom will never work hard in making a decent netcode.

A good member of shoryuken try to make a thread to talk the importance of GGPO on capcom unity.You have some retards fan boy that defend capcom even if they are wrong. Just read the thread . This is disgusting if you ask me.

http://www.capcom-unity.com/marvelvscapcom/go/thread/view/102977/28271881/why_mvc3_sucks_online,_differences_between_input_delay_and_GGPO

Also A lot of mods on capcom unity are bias -> Zonic , espionage and Liana are wrong on so many level.

another thing that will not help capcom games to get a decent netcode is the news strategies of game development.
here a resume :

Capcom currently release sequels for popular [COLOR=#d50917]games about every two years. Development time for hit games, they say, is about 3-4 years at present, which is a risky prospect if games don’t perform the way the expect them to. Capcom say there are two solutions to this problem:[/COLOR]

  1. Maintain a large number of popular brands.
  2. Shorten the development time for hit games, so as to release a popular sequel every year.

Reference’s : http://www.siliconera.com/2011/09/09/capcom-to-allocate-20-of-resources-to-building-new-brands/

It’s sure if the game development time get shorten , the online mode/netcode will get ugly. Capcom seriously have some problems in their main office .

To be fair to the mods, I think they’ve seen so many netcode complaints that they overreacted a bit when they saw that thread. And the OP could have used some… nicer(?) language. It’s a shame, really.

And that’s an SRK guy?

Well if you want , support his second thread http://www.capcom-unity.com/marvelvscapcom/go/thread/view/102977/28273887/the_differences_between_GGPO_and_input_delay?pg=1
Anyone is welcome too :slight_smile:

That is the exact same thing I thought when I saw this picture awhile back…

Not seeing your opponents connection strength is a very big problem, the online mode in MvC3 is extremely rushed and it’s looking like it’s going to be rushed in UMvC3 as well. That’s why I also say that I wish that the SF4 team worked on MvC3’s online, they did an amazing job when you compare it to how horrible MvC3’s online is

There’s someone over at CapcomUnity who goes by “T.S.” I find this to be highly disturbing…

dude, this is lobby matches, there is no problem if you find a laggy scrub.
>go to your console >turn it off > turn it on > create another lobby.
tadda!, no rank disminution and no rage mail.
it works to me

or just sign out of that user name and sign in again.

I never read mails unless its someone I know. this game is shit enough as is. I dont care about what some random 2k11 nobody scrub has to say.

the sf4 team did make the mvc3 net code, its practically the exact same thing minus some glaring problems. sf4\mvc3 even act the same online its just that sf4 is so slow that those problems are well hidden but when sped up to mvc3’s level, they become apparently horrendous.

The whole input lag math problem that mike Z uses to describe input delay games applies to sf4 too.

in fact, I even answered your question several months ago here


**Seth Killian: **The MVC3 netcode was done by the same engineers that did Super SFIV. Of course I haven’t been able to play it “in the wild” yet while everyone else is online too, but the tests have all been solid, and there are some nice added touches like better algorithms to determine other players’ true connection quality and avoid slow connections, and of course “rage-quitter hell.”

http://www.neoempire.com/?p=6314

its pretty much the same exact same thing. if you think mvc3 online is ass but sf4 is fine, you’re tricking yourself. No matter @ what speed you play sf4 @, the same problems mvc3 has online as a game are still in SF4. The input delay makes the game unplayable online and it will make ANY game unplayable online too unless you happen to live in Japan where internet speeds combined with small playable differences hide the faults of sf4 online but even then, can’t hide the faults of mvc3. If Japan’s superior internet can’t even handle mvc3 over small distances, then that tells you everything you need to know about the net code they’re using.

Look dude, Capcom says alot of things that are not true like about rage-quitter hell, and that the netcode is the speed of light.

So it wouldn’t surprise me if Seth was just talking out of his ass saying that the same team that did sf4 netcode did the MvC3 one before the game even came out

If you compare the two games online. you will notice a few differences
-Input lag with MvC3(I notice it but you don’t, but whatever) I think SSF4 online is great, I play Viper btw
-SSF4 allows you to see your opponents connection strength and see who your opponent is before the match starts. MvC3 does not
-you can create matches with SSF4 but MvC3 you can not
-When you fail to connect, MvC3 take you to the main menu page… WTF?

I’ve put countless hour in both games on my ASUS evo monitor and I am telling you that there is a huge difference in online lag and netcodes, and if you think otherwise than you gotta be tricking yourself.

If you don’t believe me and need further convincing, here is a recent interview with Seth from a few weeks ago talking about the different teams that make the netcode for the two games

skip to 15:50

[media=youtube]1qU6x7842wY[/media]

so if seth is talking out of his ass, how can you possibly trust that conversation in that interview? he’s lying, he’s not lying, he might be lying…

so which is it, is it the same team or 2 different teams? if he’s lying all the time, how can you trust what he’s saying now? how do you know he’s just not saying shit?

lol, I don’t notice input lag? I’ve been complaining about that shit since 2001 when shoryuken first started. Fuck out of my face oh wait, you joined 2k9 gotcha. Makes sense now

the stuff about the connection strength, creating matches, fail connects, those are just minor aesthetics that can manipulated quite easily. Those aren’t actually a reflection of the net code, they’re just online functions.

this type of net code is like jogging\running on a sprained ankle. When you jog, sf4, the pain is kind of there but not so intense. Then when you start sprinting as fast as possible, mvc3, the pain is obviously clear.

its the same thing, its just that they’re running @ 2 different speeds so the flaws of one are way more clear in the faster game and lets say for arguments sake they’re 2 different net codes, they both use input delay as their foundation. So you have 2 teams trying the same bad idea differently!!! come on…

Umehara: Yeah. But now we have XBL/PSN. So even if there aren?t a lot of people playing it here, I think we can create the necessary environment to take on the US.* I tried playing online in America before, and the lag is really horrible there.**** So the top players in the US don?t have a choice but to get together ** and play in person. So in that respect, I think Japan has an advantage. There may be a large gap now, but I have confidence that we can catch up eventually.*

http://gouki.com/Story/Details/daigo-umehara-interview-about-ssf4-arcade-edition

ssf4 purposely implements MORE input lag than what the internet can do, ssf4 isn’t good online because the game can’t be played properly. Go read Mike Z’s article about ggpo and input delay and pay attention to the math, any game with forced input delay like sf4\mvc3 fuck up the game so bad it virtually can’t be played online with offline timing. Its 2 different games.

I stopped reading your post after you commented on my srk join date lol…Really?

Netcode from 2001 to today is completely different, why even mention 2001?.. I been playing Street fighter since it was "Street fighter 1"and been playing online since SF3 on XBOX and that shit was unplayable compared to even MvC3 today.

Your post turned into some rambling rant that is not backed up by any facts… I mentioned Viper because she is probably the hardest character to play online and I can do it just fine on SF4.

Maybe your too old to react to any difference in lag between the two games so if you don’t notice it than that’s good for you, but I sure as hell notice it

The possibility to look other players ping and kick bad latency players make s/sf4 ae better over mvsc3 . This doesn’t mean it’s far superior . These options are the basic online stuff and capcom have difficulty to put it in their game . Both netcode suck ass , this is something it’s sure. I still think and support the idea capcom use very old netcode/online coding technology for the modern title game to save $ .
Old pc games like counter strike , starcraft 1 , warcraft 3 and other goods multiplayer pc game between 98 - 2005 are superior to capcom right now and it is not even comparable . Just thinking about it make me sick and discourage me to buy new title any more

You’re confusing user interface with netcode in half of this post. Seriously, the netcode has not a damn thing to do with whether or not ping is displayed, whether you can create lobbies, what menu you get kicked back to, etc, etc. Net code only effects how the game sends and receives data, and how it responds to it.