It’s not a matter of biased, it’s a matter of this game being a fucking hollow shell. Have you ever even played the console port of SFA3 dude? Holy fucking shit, THAT’S how you make a fighting game.
Fuck am I tired of this argument.
Allright bro try and follow this logic,this game was made for fans not fan.
Alpha was nice but so was jojo,rival,3s ect.
Cant stick to the same formula when the real issue is had those games been made now,salty little bitchs would still spread their netnerdrage,your impotent anger in slanderous forms all over where anywhere you can get a pair of eyes to read them.
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X-rays are like the super bar, I think you might build a bit while you get hit but it’s nowhere near as big a comeback mechanism as Ultras or X-Factor.
Plus, you have to juggle use of X-rays with EX moves and breakers.
But it’s a counter…it’s a counter you get once in a three round fight,right? How is that worse than level 3 X-Factor anything where every move is safe and your dead on the first touch, not to mention is lasts a bazillion years
The whole “voting with your dollar” thing doesn’t really apply to DLC since you already bought the game. Even if you didn’t buy DLC, you still forked over the $60 for admission. If you guys really want to “stick it to Capcom,” don’t buy the game in the first place. They won’t stop making “half-complete” games with garbage netcode until they stop selling.
Keep in mind that the MK demo build is also pretty early and (iirc) before they flew out pros to test it, so cheap, obviously OP stuff like that is probably gone for release.
just because the tournament scene wants to see god like net code doesn’t mean that its irrelevant. In fact, its one of the most important aspects for the casual market. Being able to play online competitively is HUGE. People are literally quitting this game by the day cause they don’t live in a scene and can’t train online and if you disagree with me on this, check out the mvc3 net code thread. Now if tournament players are dropping this game after buying it first, its far more likely that the casual player won’t even touch it cause the online is bad.
the reason I know it would generate a shit load of sales is because pretty much all the high selling games on PC\console all have great net code and all the games with bad net code that rely on multiplayer don’t really sell that well. the mmorpgs\fps\rts games online all do really well cause their core scene is based off the internet. That allows the casual player more access to the game and will more than likely play now. Do you think that many people would play star craft 2 if it had mvc3’s net code? in fact, give any successful online game mvc3’s net code and watch that shit fall apart. No one would play because its so bad.
I was on the fence about kof 12\kof02 um. First thing I wanted to see was if the net code would be any good and since it wasn’t, I didn’t buy it and I’m a die hard fighting game player. How much more likely is it for random casual player to buy if the net code is bad?
and before anyone says BB didn’t sell that well, thats mainly because its an obscure title. If you go to the average video game player and ask if them if they’ve heard of BB, they’ll probably ask you whats that. Walk up to any person who plays video games and if you mention street fighter, quite a few people know what it is. The first modern capcom fighter to use great net code and is also an excellent game will do REALLY well. Preferably street fighter as its the most known of the capcom fighters.
You’ve got a ton of stuff going on here so I’m breaking it up to respond better.
Casuals don’t give a fuck about playing competitively, and “people quitting by the day” is a statement that doesn’t actually mean anything. People are also buying it by the day. For tournament players who live in remote areas, yeah this sucks, no argument. Condolences for their loss. But casuals aren’t going to notice or care that they can 1-frame trap someone with impunity because they just want to shoot fireballs at comic book characters.
Again, tournament players and casuals have no impact on each other. Be realistic. If tournament play equaled sales, those Naruto and Bleach fighters that come out every six months wouldn’t sell for shit, and SF3S/MvC2 would be in the casual’s focus a decade into their lifespans.
MMOS/FPS/RTS games are a totally different animal than fighting games. Even ignoring the fact that fighters require split-second reaction times more than any other genre (including FPS), no, SC2 would not succeed if it had MvC3’s netcode. MvC3 wouldn’t survive if it had SC2’s netcode. Do you know why?
Because they’re different fucking games.
You can’t compare the two in any rational context. You can’t even compare BB’s netcode to MvC3’s because they’re completely different games running on completely separate engines. It’s entirely conceivable that MvC3 simply cannot run on our broadband infrastructure due to the technical limitations of the network. Unless you personally are an IT programmer with years of experience and know how to code specifically THIS KIND OF THING, you just don’t know what you’re talking about.
They said a while back they had to drop Johnny Storm and Frank West because they were causing massive RAM problems when playing online. There ARE technical limitations that have to be dealt with here. You can’t just magically “Make It Work”
Counterexample: I bought both those even though the netcode is shit because I wanted to play them, even if it’s just arcade mode, fucking around with combos in training, and kicking my roommate’s ass until he ragequits. Random casuals aren’t going to research KoF’s netcode to decide if they’re going to buy it, they’re going to ask who the fuck these kings of fighting are, then buy DoA:Dimensions.
For the tits.
MvC may not be obscure, but the tournament scene is. Tourney scenes are basically obscure for anyone who isn’t already high invested in a genre. Just because Starcraft has a gigantic following and huge pro scene doesn’t mean I can walk up to some random gamer in a store and ask if Tasteless is his favorite commentator.
Casuals will always be casuals, they will buy the game, play a few matches online, and they won’t know if that shinkuu hadouken hit because of bad netcode or because they threw it out against another button mashers. They aren’t going to know if the timing of their overhead/low assist unblockable setup is off because THEY DONT EVEN KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS.
You’re making a lot of huge leaps in your thinking dude. Just because you want something to be true doesn’t mean it is.
Maybe I can give you guys a little insight into the casual mindset?
I consider myself casual. I haven’t been to a tournament in 12 years or so. Maybe longer. I probably won’t be at another one unless it’s really convenient, because I simply don’t play enough to be competitive nowadays and I lack offline training partners (and free time!).
I work as a programmer for a living, and honestly I don’t see the netcode as being awful. Of course I played MK2 on an xband, so I probably have low expectations. Yes, MvC3 netcode hiccups from time to time. Could it be doing things I don’t realize because I simply don’t play MvC offline except in practice mode? Sure. It’s not the end of the world though, and it’s not even up there on my list of complaints. If I lose a match and there is a lot of lag, I just don’t play against the same person again. So you’re right that casuals probably don’t give a fuck about netcode as long as it looks like it’s performing correctly even if it’s not.
My biggest complain would probably be matchmaking. I get the stupid “looking for opponent” then kicked back to the menu all the time. When I do find a match, it’s usually against someone who’s a lot worse than me. Sometimes it’s someone who is a lot better. There isn’t a whole lot of “just right” matchups I run into. X-Factor is also annoying in general. Sometimes I win because of it, sometimes I lose but it seems to be a crutch to keep matches close to make up for poor matchmaking.
Overall I enjoy the game though. It’s fun playing another versus game, after I skipped MVC2 and basically haven’t played a versus game at release in over a decade. Sure it’s cheezy, and it feels a bit hollow but I’m not going to a tourny, so who cares. It can give me an hour or two of entertainment a few nights of week so it serves its purpose well. I’d buy it again if a sequel came out.
fair enough, Niitsuma tested it before the game dropped. it didn’t work and they planned accordingly.
sorry, but that’s no excuse for weak netcode. especially, in light of how Niitsuma bragged about the quality of the netcode. frankly, if he can test to see if Johnny Storm and Frank West will work in MvC3. he should have done the same with the netcode from day one and planned accordingly. the real problem isn’t the technical limitations. the real problem is a company and game designer not taking the technical broadband limitations of their biggest market into account when designing a game from day one. LOL…it’s no wonder they’ve been looking like a small-time organization lately.
I really think alot of the netcode issues could have been brought to light with a demo release with a partial roster.
If the real issues were how the load would impact,this could have at least created a working model.
this argument could continue FOREVER so I’ll just agree to disagree.
I think because they felt pushed a side when SF4 was dominating the scene. And now the tables have turned…
Ya know…the more and more I think about DLC pricing, I realize ow DUMB the argument is overall. MAybe because I’ve fallen into the classification of ‘old’…but I’m sorry how much did SF2 cost to play when it first cmae out? 50 cents to start and 25 cents to continue. I’d go to the arcade with 5-10 bux and spend it all on that one game before I left. Think about how many visits to the arcade you used to have. Now figure in the cost of buying the home version on TOP of the money you spent at the arcade…and you couldn’t play against the local scene online…just your cicrcle of friends or college buddies. Think about how much money you spent playing ANY of the previous Street Fighters or Verse titles…now compare that to what you spent on MvC3 and the DLC.
Why are people complaining? I understand that it is a slippery slope…the idea of $20 DLC is a huge turn-off and one that I’m sure hte market will spurn into oblivion - but we are talking ten fucking dollars.How much do you guys pay to tgo to the movies? How many hours of entertainment does that provide compared to the hours you’ve played MvC3? MvC3 cost a little more than two full price or 4 ‘amazon priced’ blu-rays. Are we really having a discussion complaining about the cost delta? I mean really compare the cost per hour playing MvC3 verse any other form of entertainment. Now lets say all DLC for MvC3 thats worth getting (characters) tops out @ 40 bucks. That means you paid 100 bux for the enjoyment of the game…I’m pretty sure almost everyone in this thread and on this forum has logged 50+ hours or will log 50+ hours before they retire this game (obviously more people wil lbe OVER 100 hours already, but I’m being conservative).
Thats 2 bucks an hour. Or 50 cents every 15 minutes…or 50 cents per 5-7 game win streak.
GTFO.
- :bluu:
It’s not a question of it being too much money, it’s not a question of having to pay the money in general, It’s a question being ripped off. People do not like being ripped off for things they should have gotten with the package.
MvC3 charges you 60 bucks for an incomplete character roster, an online mode, a training mode. and an arcade mode via vs AI. that’s what you get in the 60 dollar package. That’s barren, that’s the absolute minimum requirement for the full price of 60 dollars.
Now they release 2 new character who were on the disk, but were said to be ‘incomplete?’. They release a free shadow mode but charge money for the shadow packs that use the mode? Which is just a rehashed arcade mode to begin with. and my absolute biggest complaint. No spectator mode? It’s blatantly obvious that this game was rushed out. I guarantee you we’ll see a second release maybe a year and a half later with ALL the features we would have expected in the first one. And what will they do? DO us like SSF4 and make us buy another disk for 40 bucks? Sorry, but that’s just ripping us off. They had what, 10 years to make this game and finish in satisfactory condition? It’s not a question of them offering DLC for charge, it’s a question of them putting DLC out that should have come with the game already for the full price of 60 dollars.
I’m holding onto the game simply cause i play it here and there to just stay fresh on it when i goto the scene and play there. But the breaking point for me is if they patch in spectator mode and CHARGE for it. I’ll take the game right to Gamestop, and trade it in, and let Gamestop reap benefits on their product while they don’t see a dime of it.
That’s just mean-spirited and petty.
So is charging full price for an incomplete game.
So in other words, you didn’t get anything of what Unreallyistic said. Or that the idea that two wrongs makes a right makes you… mean-spirited and petty.
Seriously, you know what the full price is? The price of the game plus all of the DLCs. You have the option to get a limited package for less than that.
If you think I’m going to let a multi million dollar corporation like capcom get the best of me then your sorely mistaken. I dont know if you like getting trampled on by I dont. There is no option, you pay 60 bucks, and they don’t give you a code for buying the game full price to unlock the 2 other characters and the shadow packs and the alternate costumes and whatever other DLC they decide to release for the game. Your stuck with the bare minimum.
Unreallystic’s argument was that we paid alot in the arcades, and yeah when i was in the arcades in my teens I certainly blew 10-20 bucks per visit at the arcades. You know why? Cause i got my moneys worth, and i left satisfied. Here, i’m pumping money into their company, buying their product new like a good customer so they see profits from it, and what do i get? I get an unfinished game and the extras that you need to pay for to unlock.
no thanks, If that makes me meanspirited and petty, then I guess i am.
You win the thread.
I’m not a fan of people making arbitrary ‘quality requirements’ for 60$, nor do I think it’s right to say the roster was incomplete when Capcom shipped the number of characters they wanted to ship.
In my opinion, with the game having a barren feature set compared to SSF4, BBCS, MK9, SC4; it feels to me like a 50$ game. But that’s my opinion. Also, 60$ is the default price in general for games. Far worse games were released on that tag, it’s not like Capcom’s gonna give an ‘honest’ price point c’mon.
The Shadow Pack thing is stupid but not a rip off, in fact they did us a favor making it free at first. Try before you buy, and very few of us will buy. Who knows how many people would have purchased it willy-nilly and then found out it was lame. Very stupid, but not a rip off.
Ah yes, Jill and Shuma for 5$ each… A touchy subject. On one hand companies charge elements of a game all the time, and it was only a matter of time before fighters would offer characters or character packs. On the other hand there’s an inherent competitive element to fighters where releasing DLC characters is jarring to players who are used to ship-&-done character rosters. I can understand both sides. My personal view, however, is that this is a crowd who don’t mind purchasing strat guides and arcade sticks for far greater amounts of money than 5$ characters. Is it so strange to be expected to buy DLC? It’s not even mandatory - you can still face Jill/Shuma online and learn the matchups. Some games you’re screwed if you don’t get certain DLC; this makes MvC3’s DLC offering a lot more reasonable on an interactive level.