C-Ken is probably the best option out of the three characters that you mentioned because he seems to have the most attacking options and and best anti-air options, plus better RC moves than cammy. I also think you should try starting with ken and anchoring with sagat (everyone should always anchor with sagat unless in A-groove).
The geese, or whatever your name is, you’re retarded, A is the best groove in the game. Bisons roll is somewhat useful however…you can cancel it into psycho-crushers :badboy:
What a shitty ass argument, I’m sorry. You don’t need anti-air options. 90% of the time, you just need one or maybe two good anti-airs. I love how detailed you are, too. MOST ATTACKING OPTIONS. HOLY SHIT STOP THE MADNESS! BETTER RC MOVES THEN CAMMY??? DAMN STOP BEASTIN! Omg, I’m retarded, too??? Sweet! And if you meant A is the scrubbiest groove, yeah you’re right about that. It’s easy to press two buttons when you feel all squirmy and special inside. Shit, if you mess up you get half your meter back TOO GOOD!!! And the way you topped it off is fucking brilliant. CANCEL ROLL INTO PSYCHO CRUSHER OMG THE BAD BOY SMILEY BACKS YOUR PRO TOUR ADVICE UP FO SHO!
anyway, there IS grounded recovery for dashes, but it doesn’t seem to be any more than 2 or 3 frames.
BUT if somebody wants to test something for me you’ll get credit in the next revision of my guide (whenever that may be):
pick sakura, then pick a dash groove shoto as your training dummy.
Set the dummy to record, then do a dash and immediately block for a couple seconds.
set the dummy to play, then try to punish the dash with sakura’s standing jab (2 frames), more importantly, try to get the dummy to take the hit on the ground. If this works dashes (or, shoto dashes at least) have at least 3 frames of grounded recovery. If not they have 2 or less.
if you managed to punish the dash grounded with the 2 frame jab, try doing it with the 3 frame low short/jab, then if that works try doing 4 frame low strong/forward, and if that works try doing 5 frame standing far strong… etc.
Maybe you hadnt noticed there buddy, but in this game ALL the best shit is scrubby, i.e. Blanka, Sagat, Honda, A-sakura,A-Bison, roll cancelling, and yes A-groove. Also wtf do you mean you dont need anti-air opitons? Try using Terrry against anyone who knows what they are doing and then tell me anti-air options are not necessary, besides, i was trying to give my opinion on what the thread was started about, to the guy that started it. Just keep rocking that c-Bison there guy, cant wait to see your name in one of the top spots at all the big tournaments. And by the way, youre a fucking spaz
Don’t confuse laziness with the “best shit”. And Terry has good anti-airs. C. fierce and fierce Rising Tackle. Both are great. They are the only ones you need. I dunno what the fuck you were trying to prove. And C-Bison is good. And by the way, fuck you.
I think he means RC psycho crusher. Which I think is an ok move for bison to throw out once awhile.
I agree bison’s dash is good and it probably has to do with his 2 frame jabs. He can either dash throw or dash and combo in super. Other than that, I’ve seen people turtle and build meter with c.forward and anti air with c.fierce. Maybe that’s all he needs to win but everything else you posted seems weak or too risky to use in actual play. Sorry that’s just my opinion.
I know this was responded to, but here are my results, Sak vs Ryu:
Standing jab hit Ryu on the ground
level 3 Haru Ichiban (qcb, qcb+K), screen froze during what looked like Ryu was recovering from a dash (Headband was in the air), super hit for all hits on the ground.
level 3 Haru Ichiban (qcb, qcb+K), screen froze during what looked like the last frame of Ryu’s dash (Headband tips were barely visible), super hit for all hits on the ground.
level 3 Haru Ichiban (qcb, qcb+K), screen froze during what looked like Ryu’s neutral stance, super hit for all hits on the ground.
Rest of time Ryu was hit off the ground by the super, 1 hit landed, rest whiffed. Or Ryu blocked.
Sak vs Cammy :
Standing jab hit Cammy on the ground
level 3 Haru Ichiban (qcb, qcb+K), screen froze while Cammy’s feet were touching the ground, super hit for all hits on the ground.
level 3 Haru Ichiban (qcb, qcb+K), screen froze while Cammy was slightly off the ground, front foot barely touching ground, arms and hair in the air, super hit for all hits on the ground.
Rest of time Cammy was hit off the ground or blocked.
[Edit]: Sak vs Iori test:
I noticed that while in the right corner vs player 2 Iori, Sakura would be in the forground, overlapping Iori, while Iori was standing in neutral. During his dash, they would “Switch” and Iori would move to the foreground. At the end of his dash, Iori had both hands in front of him, and he would return to the background behind Sakura. This is also the frame that I could hit him on the ground with Sakura’s super (screen froze with Iori’s hands forward – super hit on the ground). This could be useful for finding out exactly how many recovery frames are in a dash. Everyone’s dash could be recorded, and the frames could by analyzed manually.
I tested this against Ryu, and the frames noted earlier (Headband high in the air, headband low in the air, and standing neutral) were also the frames where Ryu returned to the background.
So basically this means that dashing is an easy as fuck way to get in, and the risk of punishment is not only minimal, but if the opponent mistimes by a bit, he gets MAJORLY fucked on recovery as well as wasting a whole bar. And who will use perfectly timed jabs to beat dashing? God damn, whatever Capcom was smoking when they made the OTG rule for all dashes needs to be passed on to me.
OK, so maybe it’s not that simple. You can anticipate dashes and hit em out of the “AIR”. But still, I think it’s a low risk tactic, especially for A groove, where dash, activate becomes top-tier.
sorry everybody, my method of experimenting how many frames of recovery exist at the end of a dash is totally faulty and doesn’t prove anything. :tdown:
for what it’s worth, i thought it up in like 3 seconds while i was at work!
Because if you time your attack right, you can hit them on the ground with a standing roundhouse. While if you time it wrong, they will block or get hit in the air.
It’s more a question of timing than frames.
In order to get accurate frame data, the attack would have to be executed at exactly the same time after the dash occurs. That would require programmable pads, or an emulator of some kind.
[Edit]: Actually, even with programmable pads, I don’t know how you’d get both pads to execute their commands simultaneously. Unless you’re able to controll both players with 1 pad?
But I think Buk’s testing method gets the the heart and soul of the matter. Can dashes be punished on reaction without making the guy flip? Jabs can do it but the timing is very difficult. LVL3’s can do it, but the risk of missing is not worth it. Any other situation can be classified as “psychic” and hence not really an issue. My 2 cents.
I really don’t think dashing is an easy way of getting in or can be whored AT ALL.
Lots of characters have dashes that are slow enough that you’ll get smacked back the majority of the time if you don’t use them at the right times. As a matter of fact, TOO MANY dashes in CvS2 are too slow to catch your enemy off guard.
You may not eat big damage, but 3 or 4 punished dashes (i.e. c.fierce, sweep then followup) will keep you from mindlessly rushing in.
No doubt that you will get hit if you dash too much. But CVS2 is also cursed with the top-tier curse where the good characters are REALLY good. They can abuse like fucking everything. Look at Sagat. Not only does he have crazy upclose moves with huge frame advantage and minimal start up, but he ALSO has a great dash. AND he has a super low risk super that leads to huge damage. That is broken. Dash, super and roll, super for life.
Kinda like how a JD can beat any possible AA except a ghetto air throw. So basically any K groover beats any character for free I guess. You give some strange examples