I didnt now Daigo used C Ken so I wouldnt know. But C Ken was the best choice on that list bottomline and that cant really be disputed.
Honestly there really isnt a point to what your saying. So because a few people say C Ken is the best option of those three, because he is, they are all automatically cock sucking?
Bison’s roll is good, not great but good.
Actually there is a big fucking point. All the characters that the Japs use and have become famous for become automatic top tier. P-Kyo. Nobody used him. Then Japs do. Omg he’s the best! P-Cammy. People thought P was shit. Then Japs use her. OMG SHE IS SOOO GOOD! C-Ken. Nobody used him cept like Choi who always uses Shotos. OMG C-KEN IS SO GOOD HIS CROSSUP IS SO GOOD AND HIS LVL2 OMG WOW! I was saying C groove is the best groove since the game came out. When I said it, everyone was riding N-groove’s cock cause the Japs used it. OMG N SOOO GOOD. OMG OMG! I had people laugh when I said C is the best back when the game was a year old or so. Fucking plz to all who say SRK doesn’t ride major Jap cock.
PS. Bison’s roll is GREAT. A long roll with great recovery for a charge character? THAT’S NOT GREAT HOW? A roll with great recovery for a character with the deadliest CC and one of the safest and most damaging LVL2 cancels in the game? What? Yeah, his roll is GREAT. If Guile had his roll, Guile would be a fucking God in C.
Bison’s roll is Long and slow. Easy to see coming easy to punish. I have never seen anyone who actually used it, in a match, I am not really trying argue just to argue it’s just the truth. Besides why would you ever really want to Roll anyway for the most part it’s incredibly dangerous, it’s sort of like parrying use it sparyingly is effective, but do it all the time and you get destroyed.
Guile is god in C he is so much better than Bison in C-groove it’s not even comparable. He has a better crossup, better anti-air options and a really good lvl 2 cancel, may not be as damaging as bison’s (I am not sure I don’t have a PS2 to check right now), Plus he’s the best battery in the game hands down, His roll is better too, actually the roll thing is just opinion not fact, kind of like your take on Bison’s roll.
Bison’s roll is MUCH MUCH BETTER then Guile’s. FACT. And Bison also beats Guile.
use C-bison to ride your cock? fuck that, use C-ken. it’s better to ride japanese cock than his.
look at him trying act like he’s all that “i’ve been saying C-groove is the best before the japanese proved it…blah blha blah”
How the hell does Bison beat guile? when guile corners his ass there almost nothing he can do. When not cornered sure bison get’s near free jump in except you know for the fact that you can just walk back a step and d+fp or walk back a little further and use cr.mk into sonic hurricane if you got the meter.
I’m not even trying. It’s better to ride no cock rather then follow players half way around the world just cause they said someone is good. Dumb fag.
As for Bison vs. Guile. Bison escapes Guile corner pressure for free basically. SJ rh out of there. Easy peas. Or you can PC out of there even if you have to make him block it and get punished. You’re still outta there relatively safely. Not to mention Bison can jump in for basically free a lot of times against Guile. What’s Guile gonna do to control Bison? The only time his pressure works relatively well is when he gets him in the corner. And I already said how to get out. Everytime Guile throws a Sonic Boom to setup his offense, Bison can jumpin rh easily and retaliate with his own ground pressure. Not to mention Headstomp basically beats nething Guile has short of ghetto shit like jump back fierce/rh, or whatever may come to one’s mind in a situation like that.
Wow its surprising how fast a helpful thread debating what character would be best for a certain player devolved into a flame war that nothing useful will now come out of for a long time if at all.
It’s cause look at the fucking poll. Two votes for C-Iori, which is a pretty damn kick ass form of Iori. People know the SRK approved bullshit, and they spam it non-stop. They never stop to think about what the fuck they’re saying. Why is C-Ken good? Mnnn…let’s see. The response is so fucking played out, it’s not even god damn funny anymore. RC Funky Kick, LVL2 Cancel. AC that leads to ambiguous crossup forward. And that’s that. Ask them what else he has. They may feed you some weak shit like good pokes and RC Hadoken. Fucking plz. Nobody thinks or experiments. They’re sooo afraid of being wrong. Oh no! People will shun you if you GASP say something that’s not in accordance with DRONE PROTOCOL V2.949-493X. Fuck THAT.
Yes I agree that this would be a better forum if people were more focused on giving advice than proving a point, especially considering that things said on the forum will only be followed if you can fit them into your style of gameplay. So basically the age old saying applies arguing on the internet is like running in the special olympics even if you win you’re still retarded.
Hell yeah son, C-Bison is the best. Sagat, Yama, Bison in C. If that’s not a hella dope roll, super team right there, I don’t know what is.
DONT pick iori. bison/blanka are pretty tough matchups for him. Ken is doable, but i really like cammy vs a-sak, because u can do ALOT of dmg to her while shes trying to set up that custom. Her walking speed/sick normals help put them in the corner. Ken is doable but i would think more difficult (except of course that if you landed a full super cancel you would be in really good shape).
Nope. Free jump in on guile? with what, Roundhouse? and then get GROSSLY out-prioritized by c.fierce? Bisons jumps are BAD against guild because they are so high and long. If you try to jump over a sonic boom on reaction, you will get c.fierced EVERY TIME (unless the guile player sucks).
Geese is right however, that it is hard to keep bison down. But without the threat of HUGE CUSTOM OMG DMG, hes kinda gay. all 3 of the characters you listed are dope, i would choose based on the matchup. c-iori has alot of sexy flavor cause not alot of people use him in c. the only thing is his dash is shitty and his walking speed sucks. on the plus side, his roll is long has 2 frame recovery (SICK, yes thats right, go read buktooth’s system faq on gamefaqs).
Ok so lets see what c ken has that’s good you want me to state the facts?
There is more but I am sleepy. ken is one of the best C-groove characters and I am not just saying that because that’s what Daigo uses I have used ken since I started playing this game and always in C-groove, which I also used since the begining.
Oh and sure c-iori is good but he asked for the best and that is definetly C-Ken. And this isn’t a flame this is just me backing myself up as well as posting useful information.
Edit: Forgot to add how well he does against a-sak, which is great since you see so many a-saks.
I think his crossup is majorly played out. I have read that it’s hard to block off an AC and whatnot, but I still have yet to see its bullshit factor abused like people say happens in theory. Still good no doubt about that.
I totally disagree about Hadoken. This is not a Sonic Boom we’re talking about. It’s a very risky move for little reward. It does little damage, can be anticipated and rolled through quite easily, and if that happens, you get torn up big time with at least a 30% combo if your opponent is good. It also gives very little momentum switch on block or hit. If you’re playing beside someone, try spying their controls and seeing when their hand does a QCF motion. I’ve been doing that lately, and it’s very easy to get past Hadoken zoning. And yes I very much understand the benefits of this type of zoning against CERTAIN characters. But against a lot the top-tier, it’s really not worth it. On the other hand, RC Funky Kick is an awesome move to throw out.
His far fierce is pretty useless. I think maybe you’re thinking more of 3S Ken where it’s a good anti-air versus Dudley. But in CVS2, it whiffs if used as a poke, and someone with good reactions will punish you badly for that. As for the rh and t+rh, they’re good pokes I agree, but they offer very limited corner pressure. They are much more midscreen oriented. Also, they suffer from the same problem RC Hadoken does. They are rollable, and you will be punished big for one lucky roll. Note, that when I say rolling through, I would do it when I feel I have learned the Ken’s tendencies AND when he doesn’t have (won’t build in the process) access to LVL2. Sometimes though it’s good even to take that risk, because as I said, one lucky roll with Sagat or anyone with a pretty good roll means lots of pain for Ken.
Trying to punish Scissor Kicks is not really worth it with his SRK. The reward isn’t big enough considering the risk if you mistime. If you miss you may get CC’ed, but if you hit, it’s an SRK plus it’s followups if it was a strong version (and most of the time it’s the jab because the SRK may miss last hit and not knock down).
I don’t think you have tons of opportunities to land them because Ken plays against mostly zoners in this game (Vega, Sagat, Guile, Chun, Bison, Yama, Sak, etc.), and all these characters have pokes more abusable and quicker then Ken’s. So it’s very tough to get in. That’s why the argument for lots of LVL2 opportunities doesn’t really hold. But yes I agree his close mixups are quite good, but most of the time ppl keep it simple and just throw out c. short’s or maybe just c. short, walkup slightly, c. short, short super.
His dash along with the other Shoto dashes have no OTG properties. Just look at his sprite. Does it look like he’s hopping? Nope. Shoto dashes have always been a slide along the ground. Also, going under high Tigers isn’t exactly a special attribute. It’s pretty useless.
He has no mixups between high low. The only reason there is a high low mixup in 3S is for high/low/throw on wakeup to beat parry attemps, and the fact that 3S has b+forward, t+rh to link Shippu too, and c. shorts, and c. forward to cancel to Shippu by going low. CVS2 Ken has just a few options. C. shorts to LVL2, or low jump something. Since C-Ken doesn’t have low jump, he has no high low mixups. What he DOES have is low/throw mixups. Look like you’re gonna throw then counter hit shorts to super.
You are off the ground during his dash. I am certain of it. Have zangeif do the 360 while ken dashes at him, the 360 whiffs, except for at the very end of his dash where he is grounded but that’s not very long. He can’t body hop but his dash does take him off the ground.
Well go check Buk’s FAQ and u will see their vertical range is 0 for forward and back dashes. Also, it’s obvious without any technical data to see that their dashes don’t go OTG.
it also says right before the whole chart that every dash in the game is considered airborne.
lmfao? haha that’s pretty hilarious and good to know. Is there recovery on dashes or could you just dash in and basically gauranteed not getting low combo’ed? Worst thing that could happen in theory is you get knocked out of the “air”.
EDIT: Went to ur FAQ.
Even dashes with a 0 vertical range are considered airborne, though; if you hit the character out of the dash they’ll flip into the air instead of taking the hit on the ground.
Haha weird. All this time playing, I’ve hit and been hit out of dashes and never noticed that. :wow: Was this the same for CVS1?
EDIT2: Damn, man. Ppl should think about how cheap this shit is. Basically, if you have a good dash, you can just dash in and do whatever and the worse that happens is you eat some gimpy hit or maybe if you get randomed, you eat some weird situational super. Blah. Dash into CC activation is now officially GHEY (GAY’s long lost and much more powerful brother).
Players have talked about dashing against chunli so she couldn’t s.strong xx super you. Anyway that is old news.
I just don’t see how bison’s roll benefits him besides roll super. I have never seen anyone roll throw with bison so if he ever rolls I’d block. Another problem I see is his jump in rh. It’s looks good but because of the height of his jump, you can easily chicken block it and punish. Guile can lvl2 and sagat can fierce dp etc… You can probably chicken block the rest of his jumpins that way. I think he’s an all around strong character but I have a hard time attacking with him.
Meh about dashing, may be old but it is still gay that dashing is so low risk. I didn’t know about EVERY dash in the game having OTG properties. If I’m the only ignorant one who didn’t know that, whatever, then that’s that. I’m gonna whore dashes even more now.
About Bison, to be honest this is how I play him these days.
I start off match dashing back, whiffing some low forwards and I wait for a jump or a fireball or anything. If they jump a lot, I won’t hesitate to not move and just keep anti-air’ing them. Bison’s s. fierce beats everything that it doesn’t trade with. If nothing is going on, I will start dashing towards them or just crouch block in my spot until they get within safe short Scissor Kick distance, and if they do I will make them block it hopefully and I’m interested to see what they do after. If I’m playing someone with a weakness to Headstomp, I will use that as my main means of annoyance. If they’re smart and they know how to avoid/counter Headstomp, I will stop doing it and go back to slowly advancing in crouchblock. Once I get in by either a j. rh or a dash, I will do the following pattern. C. forward x 2, then a s. rh. Later on in the match, they will try to start doing something after the c. forward’s, in hopes of punishing the s. rh. Either by rolling, RC’ing or whatever. So then I start doing a lot of feints and just walk up throw. Or I may just put them in some block stun, and then dash, throw. Or tick throw using his c. jab. I do c. jab, rh throw, or c. forward, rh throw. If I get them in the corner, I will do the c. jab, c. forward, then jump ON them so it becomes VERY difficult to anti-air his j. rh. I may do a few reps of this. What I do at this point is start empty jumping and throwing. So they know the options I/they have. Later on, when I start doing this again, they will start trying to guess what I’m going to do. And since Bison’s c. jabs are 2 frame jabs, they will beat throws. So empty jump on top of them, c. jab x 2, s. short xx short Scissor Kicks becomes my main combo. Finally, on top of all this, my main ways to do damage are roll, LVL2 Knee Press, fierce Psycho Crusher, which then also helps me do roll, throw, because Bison’s roll really is very good. Upclose, you can start incorporating more advanced stuff, such as crossup roll, Knee Press, which even at LVL1 has incredible priority and beats a LOT of stuff, including throws. The way you do crossup roll, super is like this: having charged 2 seconds back, you roll. Once you cross up with the roll, your back charge will become a forwards movement, so then all you have to do when you recover from the roll is a quick back, forwards + kick to get the Knee Press. That is a summary of what I do. Dunno if that helped, but that’s honestly how I use him.
EDIT: Forgot to add some stuff. I will dash, throw without shame. I’m pretty sure you can dash, c. jab x2, s. short xx short SK too if you do it right. And I also jump back rh like a whore if they don’t know how to stop it. Since I can air block I don’t really care what happens. Jump back rh from Bison beats so much stuff, it’s sorta stupid. Just pick a corner and start doing it.