Whining about Fei Long and Fei Long Players thread with some Hawk mixed in

[zenzen]

For the record, I beat entire teams by myself when I used Fei Long in the team tournament. I beat thelo’s honda, ea megaman’s honda, nohoho’s blanka, and damdai’s ken, to name a few. I beat another honda in the singles tournament with Fei Long, and played him in most of my matches throughout the tournament. EA megaman will post a lot of videos showing my fei long versus both him and thelo so you can see how fei long can win that match. He wasn’t even sure honda has advantage in that match after playing me, but I’ll let him speak for himself.

I was able to beat Choi 1 game with Fei Long, though it’s unfortunate I was having some major equipment problems–unable to even do rekka x 1 at the start of rounds, for example. Choi is amazing and a better player than me, but I don’t think that particular match was representative, unfortunately. You guys should check out EA megaman’s footage, and the team tournament footage to see what it looks like when I can perform special moves correctly.

Neither Fei Long nor Cammy have appeared in top 8 ever, if I remember correctly, and if they somehow did, I don’t think they won any games in top 8 until now. Seems like mission accomplished to me. Is it time to ban the poster named Evo yet?

I only got to see your Fei against Choi, but from the looks of it, you were doing pretty well, even with hardware problems.

Is his footage on YouTube or on download somewhere? I’d love to see more of your Fei in action.

[Sirlin]

Daigo said the big screen setup had lag. Then Kuni emphatically said it had lag. He asked that I get the staff to stop running matches and test the setup. I tested it and it did have lag in my opinion, I thought it was clearly noticeable, as Kuni said. The staff said I could choose to play on it or not, and they’d try to address the problem. Kuni rightly pointed out that Fei Long suffers more from lag than other characters (especially honda, my opponent). Regardless of advantage stuff though, why play on a setup with lag when there were like a dozen setups with no lag right next to it?

The staff later switched the tv and Choi, NKI, and I tested it, and others too probably. We all said the new setup did not have lag. In the meantime, the match I played was against Mike Lai’s honda and the judge running the pool recorded it on his low quality shaky cam, so hopefully he’ll upload it for you guys.

Regarding my problem during Choi’s match, I’m still very confused how such a problem is even possible. Get this: of all the matches I played on several different PS3s during the teams and singles tournaments, there were exactly two times that there seemed to be some kind of malfunction. The first was my very first match against a t.hawk player. I couldn’t even do a rekka punch x 1, same problem when I fought choi (I’d just get a fierce, rather than special move). But I never had that problem any other time on any other ps3, just those two times (possibly again when I fought graham, who knows, it’s harder to tell with cammy and bison). I kind of hate to even bring this up because I’m not trying to whine here, I just don’t know if there’s some kind incompatibility with some sticks on some ps3s or what. Considering the button config bug on ps3, the speed difference in gameplay, the general laggy state of the menus, and that the ps3 version is not xbox360-perfect, I hope we’ll be able to switch to Xbox360 next year and avoid these problems.

And just to be super clear, Choi is a champion who deserves his 2nd place this year.

[Aqua_Snake]

Daigo said the big screen setup had lag. Then Kuni emphatically said it had lag. He asked that I get the staff to stop running matches and test the setup. I tested it and it did have lag in my opinion, I thought it was clearly noticeable, as Kuni said. The staff said I could choose to play on it or not, and they’d try to address the problem. Kuni rightly pointed out that Fei Long suffers more from lag than other characters (especially honda, my opponent). Regardless of advantage stuff though, why play on a setup with lag when there were like a dozen setups with no lag right next to it?

The staff later switched the tv and Choi, NKI, and I tested it, and others too probably. We all said the new setup did not have lag. In the meantime, the match I played was against Mike Lai’s honda and the judge running the pool recorded it on his low quality shaky cam, so hopefully he’ll upload it for you guys.

Regarding my problem during Choi’s match, I’m still very confused how such a problem is even possible. Get this: of all the matches I played on several different PS3s during the teams and singles tournaments, there were exactly two times that there seemed to be some kind of malfunction. The first was my very first match against a t.hawk player. I couldn’t even do a rekka punch x 1, same problem when I fought choi (I’d just get a fierce, rather than special move). But I never had that problem any other time on any other ps3, just those two times (possibly again when I fought graham, who knows, it’s harder to tell with cammy and bison). I kind of hate to even bring this up because I’m not trying to whine here, I just don’t know if there’s some kind incompatibility with some sticks on some ps3s or what. Considering the button config bug on ps3, the speed difference in gameplay, the general laggy state of the menus, and that the ps3 version is not xbox360-perfect, I hope we’ll be able to switch to Xbox360 next year and avoid these problems.

And just to be super clear, Choi is a champion who deserves his 2nd place this year.

I don’t know if this means anything or not, but during the SC4 final 8 when players were using pads or sticks it would randomly pause. The finals were of course on the main stage so it’s safe to say the same PS3’s were being used for the HDR final 8 as well.

I’m curious, when you were playing against that Deejay in the top 8 (I forget the players name), what was going through your mind when you two traded and he won by a pubic hair? You looked like you wanted to puke. :lol:

[zenzen]

I don’t know if this means anything or not, but during the SC4 final 8 when players were using pads or sticks it would randomly pause. The finals were of course on the main stage so it’s safe to say the same PS3’s were being used for the HDR final 8 as well.

I’m curious, when you were playing against that Deejay in the top 8 (I forget the players name), what was going through your mind when you two traded and he won by a pubic hair? You looked like you wanted to puke. :lol:

So I’m guessing it was a PS3 problem?

And I don’t believe Sirlin played against Afro in the top 8. He played Choi and Wolfe.

[Aqua_Snake]

So I’m guessing it was a PS3 problem?

And I don’t believe Sirlin played against Afro in the top 8. He played Choi and Wolfe.

I’m probably getting it mixed up with the Semi-Finals then.

And yeah, I’m betting it was the PS3’s.

[Coth_X]

Daigo said the big screen setup had lag. Then Kuni emphatically said it had lag. He asked that I get the staff to stop running matches and test the setup. I tested it and it did have lag in my opinion, I thought it was clearly noticeable, as Kuni said. The staff said I could choose to play on it or not, and they’d try to address the problem. Kuni rightly pointed out that Fei Long suffers more from lag than other characters (especially honda, my opponent). Regardless of advantage stuff though, why play on a setup with lag when there were like a dozen setups with no lag right next to it?

The staff later switched the tv and Choi, NKI, and I tested it, and others too probably. We all said the new setup did not have lag. In the meantime, the match I played was against Mike Lai’s honda and the judge running the pool recorded it on his low quality shaky cam, so hopefully he’ll upload it for you guys.

Regarding my problem during Choi’s match, I’m still very confused how such a problem is even possible. Get this: of all the matches I played on several different PS3s during the teams and singles tournaments, there were exactly two times that there seemed to be some kind of malfunction. The first was my very first match against a t.hawk player. I couldn’t even do a rekka punch x 1, same problem when I fought choi (I’d just get a fierce, rather than special move). But I never had that problem any other time on any other ps3, just those two times (possibly again when I fought graham, who knows, it’s harder to tell with cammy and bison). I kind of hate to even bring this up because I’m not trying to whine here, I just don’t know if there’s some kind incompatibility with some sticks on some ps3s or what. Considering the button config bug on ps3, the speed difference in gameplay, the general laggy state of the menus, and that the ps3 version is not xbox360-perfect, I hope we’ll be able to switch to Xbox360 next year and avoid these problems.

And just to be super clear, Choi is a champion who deserves his 2nd place this year.

[sarcasm]I love how PS3 users get screwed by glitches and bad netcode![/sarcasm]

[EA_Megaman]

Neither Fei Long nor Cammy have appeared in top 8 ever, if I remember correctly, and if they somehow did, I don’t think they won any games in top 8 until now. Seems like mission accomplished to me.

Dude, I was so happy for you. I had hopes that you would do this well before Evo (when you and I played a few games of Honda vs. Cammy & Fei.) I’m so glad you did!

For the record, I beat entire teams by myself when I used Fei Long in the team tournament. I beat thelo’s honda, ea megaman’s honda, nohoho’s blanka, and damdai’s ken, to name a few. I beat another honda in the singles tournament with Fei Long, and played him in most of my matches throughout the tournament. EA megaman will post a lot of videos showing my fei long versus both him and thelo so you can see how fei long can win that match. He wasn’t even sure honda has advantage in that match after playing me, but I’ll let him speak for himself.

That was great stuff man. It was truly impressive for you to Roll straight through 2 (6 players) in a row in the 3v3. I can only imagine how deadly you’d be with him if you had a couple bread and butter combos down.

I want to point out that it took me a long time to figure out the match with Sirlin’s Fei. I wasn’t comfortable in the match until well after we started playing. I’ve had a lot of experience playing Fei’s before, but this was like fighting a completely different Fei. Honda has plenty of answers for what Fei does, but if Fei scores some damage and can zone Honda out (st.FP, cr.FP, CW, Flame Kick, etc) it’s a very difficult match for Honda. He can even prevent being crossed up by escaping with CW. It’s hard for Honda to score big damage in this match when he’s played like that.

I’m going to edit the footage together in a few nice videos so people can learn how to play Fei. Both Thelo and I got a thorough ass kicking, so it should be very informative. :lol:

[FreshOJ]

After Sirlin’s performance this weekend, I think it’s very obvious that those of us who complained about Fei Long need to start watching Sirlin playing him. Watching the stream after having run into several old Bruce Lee movies reminded me that this is a Fei Long that’s pretty dependent on reading your opponent whether on offense or defense.

And, yes, I’ll say it here. David Sirlin deserves nothing but compliments and credit for proving to the fighting game community that Fei Long and Cammy can get to the top 8 in a national tournament. If he can do it, then the rest of us can do a little somethin’ somethin’, too.

The time for complaints is over. The time for learning has come. I’m looking forward to that Fei Long vs. Honda footage.

Edit: I did have to mention one thing, though. This was the first year that this happened. If it happens again next year, anybody else that complains should be automatically neg repped and infracted without hesitation.

[System_1]

Nice…

I think something’s wrong with the game itself in PS3. Out of a 100 games or so, I would get 1-2 rounds where I can’t do any special move for Feilong. I have thought it’s a glitch before, but since it only happens in couple rounds in a very long time so I started to ignore. Now that Sirlin has brought it up, I thought it’s worth to mention that this DID happen to me too, though rare, before.

[xcfrisco]

I kind of hate to even bring this up because I’m not trying to whine here, I just don’t know if there’s some kind incompatibility with some sticks on some ps3s or what. Considering the button config bug on ps3, the speed difference in gameplay, the general laggy state of the menus, and that the ps3 version is not xbox360-perfect, I hope we’ll be able to switch to Xbox360 next year and avoid these problems.

NOOOOO leave evo all ps3!!! lol

Just wanted to say you were my hdr hero of the tourney Sirlin. Sucks about the malfuntion, but I can’t even imagine how much the ST community’s psyche would’ve been mindfucked if you made it to winner’s finals with fei long.

I think I’ve been inspired to learn a new character, lol.

[Aqua_Snake]

Maybe Sirlin or Jumpsuit (Or anyone else) can answer these questions.

I’m starting to see how you can Rekka against Honda. My first question is what Rekka strings are you using? One annoyance to doing Rekkas on Honda is that his middle hitbox on hit slides way off his sprite, so you can’t be safe and do HP-MP-MP Rekka string because the second hit will whiff.

My second question is how are you dealing with Vega? I don’t see any Vega vs Fei HDR vids since hardly anyone plays him. I’m aware you can trade Vega’s cr.MP and other various pokes with Fei’s st.HP, cr.HP and st.HK.

Is there anything else you can add?

[System_1]

well you can play vega kinda like honda, stand at the far end of the screen and wait. if he wall dives, flame kick (watch out for the bait). you also beat wall dive with a very well-timed cl.mp or cl.hp. if you’re really adventurous, you can also beat wall dive with cw, which you can juggle, just make sure you time it right.

never cw a crouching vega. he will throw you for free. and there are no safe rekka strings. he will outpoke you any day.

the other style, which i play, is to relentlessly attack. if you can trap him in a corner, mind games always help. wake-up cr.hp is a godsend, as well as wake-up meaty lk cw, and f.mk.

[margalis]

And, yes, I’ll say it here. David Sirlin deserves nothing but compliments and credit for proving to the fighting game community that Fei Long and Cammy can get to the top 8 in a national tournament.

Can anyone list off what matches Sirlin used Cammy for in the tournament besides the one in the top 8 that he lost.

[Norieaga]

I’d just like to randomly say that I’m REALLY impressed that someone used Cammy @ Evo finally. It was refreshing for me to see. Sirlin - if you can, post some of your Cammy vids. I always like to copy the advanced players, lol.

[gridman]

Not to bring the damper down on Sirlin since he did well with fei but did he play cammy in any other matches? If not its not really fair to say that he brought cammy to the top 8. At least in my eyes. It would be like having a person who used rog all tournament all of a sudden for whatever reason switch to a character like O.Blanka or O.gief for one matchup and then saying that O.blanka / gief made it to top 8 at <this big tournament>. All the props for the fei work you did. But if you only used cammy for that one matchup against graham then it isnt really fair to say you brought cammy to the top 8.

[lftrpllr]

I thought Jumpsuit said he feels Fei hasn’t gone anywhere (In the same spot).

That’s pretty much how I feel too.

Plus to me it seems (Online at least) Wes plays Ken alot more than Fei. I’d like to see what he can do. I went 2-1 against his Fei. He played Ken the rest of the match against everyone in the room after that. Is there any footage of him playing HDR Fei?

I’m going to try and play more Fei this year. It’s my mid-year’s resolution. I did mean to play some Fei at Evo but honestly, I never really had a chance to. My tournament experience went like this for my matches:
1-Some random guy (I could’ve played Fei here, but I thought he would play Blanka)
2-DQ
3-My friend Bob that plays Ryu (I went for guaranteed money with Ken)
4-Afro Legends (played Dee Jay against me and beats me for free, I lost obviously)
5-Graham (played Balrog against me, I lost obviously)
I would’ve been counterpicking myself in the matches I lost if I picked Fei. I actually like the Ken vs Balrog match and everyone loses to Afro for free but Fei Vs Dee Jay is rough.
I realize that you just need to win but keep in mind on my side of the bracket (there were two brackets in each pool), I had Afro, Graham, Sabre, and my friend Bob. We also had Axle Kelly (who won the other bracket), Shag (a great EC ‘Rog player), and Antonio from So Cal in our bracket. It truly was the bracket of doom, especially considering the #1 and #4 people came out of the pool when there were 12 pools overall. A fun tournament and experience overall. I’d def’ go again.

-wes

[Jumpsuit]

Neither Fei Long nor Cammy have appeared in top 8 ever, if I remember correctly, and if they somehow did, I don’t think they won any games in top 8 until now. Seems like mission accomplished to me.

Top 8 in EVO only, or Top 8 in tournaments in general??

The first guy you fought was a T.Hawk player. Not to take anything away from your accomplishment but T.Hawk has a hard time vs Fei IMO…Gief gives Fei a much tougher time in HD remix. So winning vs T.Hawk is expected much like DeeJay winning vs Fei Long is expected. Especially now that Hawk has his miss animation I’d say it’s even a bit easier to fight him now. Kudos for beating him down.

The 2nd Guy you fought(Bruce Askew)used DeeJay, and it was a wise decision NOT to choose Fei because DeeJay disects Fei Long so easily. To me, DeeJay is now Fei’s new OG Sagat in HD Remix for the simple fact that Fei gets punished so severely even for blocked moves. Miss a flame kick?? BAM! Blocked rekka string? Free sweep! Perhaps by design this match is bad for Fei, but I am glad to see that I am not the only one that thinks this is one of Fei’s worst matchups. Even Fei’s invincible CW kick is almost useless against him from long range(slow max outs/sweeps). I was really hoping you would have chosen Fei to see what he can do in this match.

Then you fought Choi’s Ryu(which is a beast)and you lost but you mentioned a ps3 bug. Sucks that this was going on, but it does show that the games’ inputs need tweaking. PS3 isn’t the only one suffering from this kinda weirdness either.

Then you switched to Cammy to fight Graham’s Balrog…again another smart move but I wish you would have stuck with Fei to see how you would have handled this match up. This is another character that IMO disects Fei Long…and even with Fei’s so called “juiced up” moves he is still outmatched bigtime like he is vs DeeJay.

Now I know you gotta do what you gotta do to get as far as you can in a tournament(counter picking, etc)but I was really hoping you would have stuck with Fei or gone back n forth between Fei n Cammy all the way to the top 5.

With this being HDR’s big intro into EVO and with all the complaining about Fei and Cammy I really thought it would have been the perfect opportunity to prove just how much better he is…but in the matches where he needed to prove that claim the most he was nowhere to be found. You broke my heart, Sirlin! :sad:

As for Fei Long fighting and winning in the top 8 for the first time…are you referring to EVO only? There’s no doubt that Fei can place high in tournaments where there’s tough competition.

1994 Super SF2 MWC Super Just Games
1st. Mike Watson
2nd. Jesse Howard(Fei Long)

USFGC 1998 (United States Fighting Game Championships) in Las Vegas
1st John Choi(O.Sagat)
2nd "Jumpsuit"Jesse Cardenas(Fei Long)
3rd David Sirlin(Bison)

ECC4 1999
I made top 5 using Fei in ST.

MWC 2000
Tied with John Choi for 4th place(Fei Long)

TX- Showdown 2002
1st Jesse "Jumpsuit Jesse"Cardenas(Fei Long)
2nd Hsien Chang(O.Sagat)
3rd John “Choiboy” Choi(O.Sagat)
4th Gavin “Darkumas” Anthony
5th Chris “cmutt” Wong(Ryu)

TX-Showdown 4: ST

1. Jason Cole(Dhalsim)
2. Justin Wong(O.Sagat)
3. Jesse “JumpsuitJesse” Cardenas(Fei Long)
4. Brian Tyson(Guile)
   Tied for 5) Eddie Lee(Vega)
   Tied for 5) Chris “Crow” Villareal(O.Sagat)

TX - Showdown 5 Street Fighter 2: Super Turbo
1st Jason Cole(Dhalsim)
2nd Justin (Marvelous) Wong -Empire-(O.Sagat)
3rd David Sirlin(Vega, Bison)
4th “Jumpsuit” Jesse Cardenas(Fei Long)
5th Flash Gordon -Empire-
5th David Spence (Dhalsim)

Street Fighter Anniversary Edition
1st Jumpsuit Jesse(Fei Long)
2nd Buktooth(Chun Li)
3rd DarksydePhil(Vega)

EVO 2K2
SF2 Super Turbo
1st: Jason Cole(Dhalsim)
2nd: Ohnuki(Chun Li)
3rd: Jason DeHerras(O.Dhalsim)
4th: Apoc(Vega)
5th: Jason Nelson(Dhalsim, Guile)
5th: John Choi(O.Sagat)
7th: Mike Watson(Ryu)
7th: Jumpsuit Jesse(Fei Long)

SBO 2003 Super Turbo Qualifying Tournament For ST: The qualifers
(Remember, I had to forfeit my spot to you cuz I couldn’t make it? :wgrin:)
Team USA(Super Turbo)
Mike Watson(Ryu, Ken)
"JumpsuitJesse"Cardenas(Fei Long)
Bob “Kuroppi” Painter(Honda)
Jason “Shirts” Deheras(O.Dhalsim)
Chris “shrek” Li(Honda)
Alex Valle.(Ken)

So technically you’re right. This is the 1st time HDR Fei and Cammy have placed in the top 8 of a major tourney:wgrin:

But I still say he hasn’t budged much from his old tier spot in ST.

[Jizzon]

You really do represent Fei Long well, Jumpsuit, wow. I know you wrote the SRK Wiki entry, so obviously you know your stuff with him, but I had no idea you’d placed so well with him in major events.

So then, Jumpsuit, you seem THE most qualified to answer this: Now that HD Remix seems pretty final, what do you think Fei really has that’s better, and that’s worse, regarding matchups and moves? Are we making too much of a big deal over his new rekka range and super, or conversely, his longer recovery on short flame kick and CWs? However obvious or subtle, it would be nice to know your input.

[Sirlin]

I’m really disappointed in your post Jumpsuit. Not sure what you’re trying to do here. There’s two things you should know:

1. Yes of course I meant Evolution. Everything I said was about Evolution tournaments. So you look kind of strange posting non-Evolution tournaments in response to my correct statement about past ST Evolution tournaments.

and more importantly:

2. You listed my first and “second” opponent. But the “second” opponent is the very last match of the semi-finals! So there was all of the semi-finals and all of the pool play to qualify for semi-finals that you left out there. That’s practically the whole tournament you left out.

Why even post at all about this, by the way? Fei Long is better than before, that’s what i said, that is what I think you have said too. So we can move along now. It should be obvious(??) that Fei Long is more tournament viable than he was before. He’s within closer striking distance of the top than before, so there’s no reason for people who no idea what they are talking about to keep complaining. Jumpsuit doesn’t fit in that category though, in that case I mean there’s no reason to quote non-Evolution tournaments as some kind of response to my statement about Evolution, and there’s no reason to gloss over most of the singles tournament and all the team tournament wins. Maybe some vids of me beating Damdai and Nohoho in tournament play, along with 3 hondas will lessen the number of whining threads?

EDIT: I proved quite enough, thank you very much. I beat three hondas in tournament play here, for starters. Everyone told me that match is like impossible, including those Honda players.

EDIT 2: I also dispute that Fei Long is any way afraid of Zangief. I would welcome that matchup, and welcome it over T.hawk. But again that’s irrelevant to my post because I was talking about the numerous Fie Long wins over 2 days, not just a single, first-round match.

[Aqua_Snake]

Am I the only one who feels that the Deejay matchup has gotten a little easier?

Just about point blank where your can spam st.HP and cr.HP without hitting Deejay you can stuff just about all his moves. Dreadkicks get stuffed by st.HP, Slide gets stuffed by st.HP and cr.HP, and Upkicks completely misses. The only thing to pay attention to is his projectile which you can LK.CW on reaction. I don’t think anyone in ST would attempt to do this due to no LK.CW.

The only thing I truly fear against Deejay is his j.MK crossups.

But hey, what do I know? :looney: