Whining about Fei Long and Fei Long Players thread with some Hawk mixed in

Higher-Jin · December 31, 2008, 12:12pm

I’ve talked to Sirlin and he has assured me that Fei Long is one of his main characters and that he’s not a bad character. He was also kind enough to give me some pointers which I will gladly share with you now.

Honda is a bad match, you got that right for sure. I don’t have any magic on that one. You have to stay back, mash jab to beat torpedo (or flame kick if you have good reactions) and sneak in block damage with rekkas, looking for a mistake on his part.

In other matches though, rekkas are deadly. You can poke with them to beat many attacks and mix up the distance and timing to really mess people up. When you hit, you get lots of damage and a knockdown. Follow up with crossup or with meaty fierce or whatever into death.

Getting in is a challenge so first priority is to never end up far vs Ken/Ryu. If you are far, you’re screwed and need to do a really early (psychic) jump over a fireball to get close enough to threaten rekkas again. Best range is near the tip of chicken wing/flying kicks where you can hit their fireball hands on reaction eaisly. You are safe after that, and you can either do another chicken wing or flame kick.

After blocked chicken wing, mix up doing the move over and over…or flame kick. Some opponents keep trying to throw (keep doing chicken wing). Others keep trying to dp (just block and punish big time). Others try to block (throw them). Make that mixup count and wreck them as best you can.

Look for opportunties to land new juggle combo. I’m able to land it a fair amount in regular matches. The lower priority on chicken wing has no effect on the situation I’m talking about. It’s only lower priority at the very start where the opponent completely knew you’d do it and early jump rh to hit you or something. But any time you tag them with the tip air-to-air, you get to juggle with flame kick (a lot easier than juggling with a slow-startup chicken wing a second time). Also, doing chicken wing early as a guess that they will jump usually hits also (the parts at middle and end of the move are really high priority) and again it leads to juggle combos.

If I had to give just one single piece of advice though, it’s the rekkas. If you know how to use them (there’s 9 of them total, remember) you can be safe while poking from crazily far away. I think job one of a new fei long player is to get a feel for all those rekka distances and master that.

–Sirlin

I’ve also asked him about Dee Jay and hopefully he will hit me back on that one. Basically, the main thing he emphasizes is mastery of the new Rekka ranges. Not only of the initial punch, but of the 2nd and 3rd punches as well. This is actually rings quite true with me because I notice the 2nd punch can beat out a lot of moves that usually hit you out of the 1st one. Jab Rekka I -> Fierce Rekka II can be really deceptive and you can still end up safe in certain distances while still having the option of ending with Jab Rekka III.

MAGUS1234 · December 31, 2008, 12:23pm

I did good in a some recent tournies with Fei. Guiles can be tough (Battosai/brother/choi) but its VERY winnable, just walk forward and play patient, lk CW is a life saver. Balrog gave me problems, but c.fp is one of the best tools in this match IMO. Sagats, are np, Vega is really tough, you just have to get well timed rekkas and c.fp/ bait him into loosing flip kick charge. Bison is the match I have a really hard time with, again its very winnable though. Typically it involves me walking him down with s.mp/fp, using Rekka poke strings…etc THough I did not get much Dahlsim exp, I feel that this is the hardest match, harder than honda/.

Ouroborus · December 31, 2008, 1:00pm

vega is the hardest match by far imo.

EVERYTHING vega has is better than fei long except maybe damage output but those wall dives does a grip and thats without the izuna drop.

better normals, better jump ins, hes faster, bigger throw range, and his command anti air has more invincibility than yours.

isurus · December 31, 2008, 1:13pm

I played tons and tons of Super (not Turbo), and Rekkas were my main offense and defense (staying just out of their range on the 2nd or 3rd hit). So I was a bit surprised when I’d watch a lot of super turbo vids of fei (noguchi, yuubou, greentea) where they didn’t use his rekkas alot, and focused on using lots of chicken wings.

So after the nerf of the CW, I think my gameplan is still going to be pretty good as I’ll still rely on the Rekkas, and now just have to learn the new distances which I’ve already begun to do.

As in my title, “rekka rekka rekka” And what you do after the 3rd rekka is important too.

isurus · December 31, 2008, 1:15pm

Lots of rekkas, and chicken wings. One of my bro’s is a Vega player, and he told me CW’s are one of the most annoying things I can do to him.

MAGUS1234 · December 31, 2008, 1:20pm

CW gets flipkicked on reaction every time. rekka gets stuffed by c.mk/mp. You have to use c.fp to win this match.

Onikage · December 31, 2008, 1:25pm

I’d listen to Magus on this one. =)

xstancex · December 31, 2008, 2:21pm

My hardest matchups are vega, honda, and dalhsim. Once these guys start turtling, fei is pretty much out of options.

Ouroborus · January 2, 2009, 3:34am

since i’m bored, i’ll list the matches that got better or worst since vanilla ST. feel free to discuss

ryu: better
ken: better
guile: better
chun: better
sim: worse
gief: worse
blanka: same, maybe slightly better
honda: worse
bison: worse
vega: worse
balrog: worse
sagat: better
deejay: same
t hawk: worse
cammy: same

i dont think he has enough improvements since vanilla ST. losing his corner lockdown with the chicken wing kick and losing his safe dp are severe blows for him but the new range on his rekka is too good along with flame kick juggles and lk chicken wing kick going thru fireballs.

overall he got better vs fireball characters but worse against everyone else

orochizoolander · January 2, 2009, 7:28am

I’m thinking of picking up fei because it’s fun being balls out aggressive getting them in the corner but I have no idea how to use rekkas as pokes as in which rekkas to use and when any tips?

isurus · January 2, 2009, 9:50am

oro: The rekkas have different distances, and whether they are blocked or hit.

Unless you’re right on top of someone, you can start with strong or fierce rekka. If it’s blocked, you’re going to need to reduce the strengths on successive hits depending on how far you’ve sunk in. If you’re right on top of them, use jab, otherwise try strong or fierce if they aren’t already in the corner, and you need to push them further. The last hit should be jab or strong depending on how far you sunk in on the 2nd hit. You want to be out of sweep range.

Sometimes there isn’t much you can do even if your last hit is a jab and you’re as far out as you can be. Honda might be able to fierce headbutt or guile might be able to roundhouse flashkick.

In the cases where you expect retaliation after the 3rd hit and you’re far out, throw out a flame kick. Back in old Super days, I’d almost always catch my brother’s Bison Scissor Kick. It probably still works in ST, but I haven’t tested.

I read somewhere that roundhouse CW is the best option when people are in the corner, as it usually connects with all 3 hits. Something I’ll have to play with.

Also, if you plan on only using 2 hits that you’re sure are blocked, make sure the last is a jab or medium. You can then flame kick, block, or do another late timed rekka to catch the person off guard.

Now, if you’re first or second rekka does connect, your next successive hits can be fierce. Strong might be risky if you connected far away.

Throw in normals, don’t always rekka. Try ->+RH, ->+MK, c.MP, c.FP, s.FP.

Fei’s rekkas can be comboed from punches only now I think. Even a s.LK won’t combo, I think.

I learned Fei back in Super before he even had CW, and I could great corner traps with him. The CW frame delay doesn’t really factor in to my game, but I see it’s affected players who used it a lot.

isurus · January 2, 2009, 9:53am

Catch Vega moving forward and use a CW then, not when he’s crouching or landing from a jump.

A fierce rekka at the right distance and trickery won’t be caught. Don’t make your style obvious.

Higher-Jin · January 2, 2009, 10:23am

isurus:

oro: The rekkas have different distances, and whether they are blocked or hit.

Unless you’re right on top of someone, you can start with strong or fierce rekka. If it’s blocked, you’re going to need to reduce the strengths on successive hits depending on how far you’ve sunk in. If you’re right on top of them, use jab, otherwise try strong or fierce if they aren’t already in the corner, and you need to push them further. The last hit should be jab or strong depending on how far you sunk in on the 2nd hit. You want to be out of sweep range.

Sometimes there isn’t much you can do even if your last hit is a jab and you’re as far out as you can be. Honda might be able to fierce headbutt or guile might be able to roundhouse flashkick.

In the cases where you expect retaliation after the 3rd hit and you’re far out, throw out a flame kick. Back in old Super days, I’d almost always catch my brother’s Bison Scissor Kick. It probably still works in ST, but I haven’t tested.

I read somewhere that roundhouse CW is the best option when people are in the corner, as it usually connects with all 3 hits. Something I’ll have to play with.

Also, if you plan on only using 2 hits that you’re sure are blocked, make sure the last is a jab or medium. You can then flame kick, block, or do another late timed rekka to catch the person off guard.

Now, if you’re first or second rekka does connect, your next successive hits can be fierce. Strong might be risky if you connected far away.

Throw in normals, don’t always rekka. Try ->+RH, ->+MK, c.MP, c.FP, s.FP.

Fei’s rekkas can be comboed from punches only now I think. Even a s.LK won’t combo, I think.

I learned Fei back in Super before he even had CW, and I could great corner traps with him. The CW frame delay doesn’t really factor in to my game, but I see it’s affected players who used it a lot.

Great advice here ^

I love corner traps with Rekkas. Basically what you need to do to set up a Rekka trap is to threaten with a late final Rekka punch. Scrubby players will block instinctively, but good players will try to hit you back. In order to discourage this you will have to perfectly time the last rekka so it will hit them out of whatever counter hit they are attempting. If your 3rd rekka punch is being beaten out by normals it’s because you are doing it too late and you need to do it earlier. If they start doing DPs to beat it out then don’t do the 3rd punch and just punish them on the way down.

Anyway, after they start blocking you can really take advantage and make them desperate to jump out or do something stupid. Here are some of my favorite blocked rekka strings:

The standard: Fierce rekka I from max distance, MP rekka II, JP rekka III
First Alternative: Fierce rekka I, MP rekka II (pause) MP rekka I, MP rekka II, JP rekka III
Second Alternative: Fierce rekka I, MP rekka II (Pause) MP rekka I (pause) MP rekka I, MP rekka II, JP rekka III

(The last one is hilarious when it works because it’s 6 ticks of block damage the opponent basically just handed to you out of fear.)

Basically the main idea is to reset the rekkas. This makes the opponent restless because they KNOW they can hit you between these and they feel like they are letting you have free block damage. A stupid move almost always follows. Keep in mind you can also mix in chicken wings if you think they are going to try to sweep you, or just waiting and blocking if you think they are going to try to DP or jump over you. Sirlin was right about making his mix ups count, as that’s the only thing Fei really has.

Another important note I want to bring up that is somewhat unrelated. Butterfly Kick (Forward+ RH) is great for starting rekka strings. If you make them block the butterfly kick from max range it has so much frame advantage that it is very easy to make them block a Fierce rekka afterwards, and start his shenanigans. I’m starting to notice that predicting what your opponent will do after blocked Rekkas is one of the most important aspects of Fei Long’s game. If you can anticipate and counter what they do then you will start winning a lot more matches.

isurus · January 2, 2009, 10:34am

Here’s a good article with more detail than what I used.

http://www.shoryuken.com/wiki/index.php/Fei_Long_(ST)#The_Basics

Be aware that doc is pre-HD remix, so it’s not completely up to date. There is a HD Remix only section to update you on Fei’s changes.

isurus · January 2, 2009, 10:43am

Thanks

Yes, the last part I quoted is very important. Mind games are super important with Fei because if someone makes a mistake you can do a ton of damage. Most people will do only a couple of things when they are trapped and fearful, and others won’t do anything at all, allowing you to get a throw.

@ Ono: If you don’t have a joystick, I recommend you get one. I don’t think Fei can be played properly with a regular controller, that’s my experience any way.

Aqua_Snake · January 2, 2009, 5:20pm

I’m willing to admit while I already knew about the Rekka Strings, I honestly haven’t been using them due to the shitty ass Xbox controller.

I’m starting to use them more often, and my Fei Long game is starting to get better. Doing pauses during Rekka String will allow you to break off Claw’s claw (Haha) very easily.

I am starting to see how it can be effective.

Edit: I just checked that guide. Fei Long has an Air Throw!?!?!

WTF?!?!

isurus · January 2, 2009, 7:16pm

Hahaha, I had the same reaction. It’s towards and MP. Back might work too, not sure. He didn’t have one in Super, I don’t think. Just ST. My eyes popped outta my head when I accidently did it after I bought HD Remix.

FreshOJ · January 2, 2009, 9:46pm

Whoa whoa whoa.

Combos are first and foremost dependant on attack strength and distance from your opponent, not whether something is a punch or a kick.

If you couldn’t combo into a Rekka Ken off of a s.LK, it’s would be because you can’t combo into it from any weak attack. However, after just firing up the PS2 and doing it myself on the CCC2 version, the Rekka Ken does combo off of any weak attack except c.LK (because it’s not interruptable).

I thought that sounded suspect…but hey…you did say you weren’t really sure.

FreshOJ · January 2, 2009, 9:53pm

b/f + MP/HP and, no, he definitely didn’t have one in Super…I think. I might’ve slept on that one back in my SNES SSF2 days. I was shocked that he even has this air throw!

isurus · January 3, 2009, 2:28am

I know it sounds wierd, but I thought I saw Sirlin write that somewhere, but it’s not in the change list on Sirlin.net. I’ll look for the source when I get back.

edit: Alright, I didn’t feel like waiting. Here it is:
http://www.shoryuken.com/wiki/index.php/Fei_Long_(ST)#Combos