Wall game: Hard to say who’s got the edge here. T4 has wall techs and position change throws, but also allows stupid wall infinites. VF4 has different levels of wall stun, better use of walls during throws, and breakable walls.
Movement options: Last time I checked, VF had crouch dashes, wavedash-like stepping patterns, and even sidestep attacks. It’s just harder to sidestep things in VF, that’s all.
Harder execution: Ummm, no. VF is littered with extremely difficult command inputs, especially on defense (see huge post above). Also note that as T5 becomes easier to control “like VF”, VF4ft becomes more like Tekken with Kage’s triple-JF dragon punch.
Wakeup games: Yes, Tekken has a better wakeup game, but VF has its share of nasty tricks, and I have yet to see a Tekken character do something as cool when grounded as Aoi’s ground counter.
VF takes too much time to even scatch the surface and I dont have that much time. Besides you have to be a fucking octopus to pull some of the moves in VF.
Tekken on the other hand can make you look competent with less learning time. Mastering Tekken can be as long as mastering VF.
I rather play tekken… cause i do have a life but yet still wants to have fun.
Don’t get me wrong here guys. I’m not trying to defend Tekken 4 here at all costs. I’m seriously interested finding out and liking what Virtua Fighter is about. Instead of turning this into a flame war, how about we listen to each other’s opinions with as little bias as possible.
Cygnus: I’m a little confused by the lingo in your points. Could you clarify what linear and half-circular attacks, catch throws, and other techniques are? Sounds to me though that VF has a vastly superior throw game in it. Good stuff.
Pretty much all of this is in Tekken. That stuff in the last paragraph though, Tekken 4 doesn’t have. That would be pretty cool.
Wall infinites are pretty tough to get in an actual match, and those that can (e.g.; Jackie Tran, the best t4 player in the world) have a lot of skill. Every character can do wall infinites too, so this doesn’t effect balance in any way (it may even add to the complexity of the game). Everything else that you mention here Tekken 4 has.
I only go from what I’ve seen of VF at the last 2 Evo tournaments, but wd is quicker in tekken, and many charcters have unique movements (ling fox step, hwoarang crazy step, craig VTS step) that there is no equivalent for in VF. Side stepping is quicker in Tekken, which means you can put it in movement patterns for confusion, unlike the side step in VF. Since back dash cancelling has been taken out of T4, I do believe this aspect is much stronger in VF.
I’m not saying VF is not hard execution-wise, I’m just saying T4 is a little harder. Those techniques you mention from Cynus’s post sound like they take practice to do consistently, but it seems like the real difficulty is from looking at all of those options in a match. I agree with the mental aspect of it.
Again, I’m not trying to bash VF4, I just want an unbiased answer as to why it’s better. So I’m ignoring posts that say “you’re wrong!!” or “you’re right, but I’m going to argue anyway.”
I play both series. Dandy J and Jaguarandine can narrow it down, and jag can learn about VF.
One thing though, IMO, i think Minami Stepping in VF is faster than Mishima Lightdashing. I HAD some vids of it in action, but i dunno what happened to them. Ill look for them, and if i find the vid, ill post.
As for the lingo, lemme just make it simple. Dandy J may go into more detail.
Linear attacks can can be sidestepped either way, up or down.
Half-circular attacks are attacks that can only be sidestepped in one direction. (A side kick is a good example.)
Catch throw is a throw to input during a move. (Someone told me it was something else, so correct me if im wrong.) Example, i do Goh’s FF+K+G(?), a high kick that hits the back of your head. At a certain frame of impact, you can input a throw command (B+P+G?) to add a throw with the strike. Whether you get hit by the atack or even if you block it, if your opponent inputs the throw command at the right frame, you will be thrown and you will take damage.
coN, what you are describing are hit-throws. They are basically just attacks that you do a just-frame input on hit. To Tekken players, they are just like Lee’s mist trap (b+33,4), except they usually only work if they hit (or some only if they MC). Goh and Jeff have hit-throws that work on block.
A catch throw is a throw with a special animation, and (usually) is unescapable. They can also beat attacks early in their execution. The tradeoff is that catch throws are usually slow (like 18-20 frames or so), and if they whiff, it’s your ass. They also have better range than normal throws. Usually they are used to beat evade/backdash/EDTEG since you can’t escape them.
IIRC, unless there’s a second name, there are two classifications for catch throws, both require you to be doing something specific to trigger. There are two types, Grab-style, and Strike-style.
Grab-style require your opponent to be standing, within the range of the throw. A certain number of frames in, they cannot stick out an attack to stop this type of throw. These include Akira’s f,b+P+G series, Wolf’s uf+P+G(Frankensteiner), Sarah’s uf+P+G, etc. The first portion, if it leads to a chain throw series, is NOT escapable.
Strike-style are similar to Lee’s B+3, 3:4 JF. Your character does a specific attack, and dependant on situation(Hit, CH, Guard, any) will follow up said attack with a throw. Once again, it can NOT be escaped if it hits. Examples are Jeffry’s Threat Stance P(guarded), f+P+G, Wolf’s Toe Kick-Stunner(b+K+G(hit), P+G), Goh’s ff+K+G(Hit/Guard), b+P+G, etc.
To say that one is better than the other is just idiotic. All it comes down to is preference. I would say though that I prefer tekken 4 to VF4: evo because I can actually find competition for it around my area. Comp for VF4 is almost non existant where I live so I guess if that ever changes I might get into it.
:lame: = VF4 is an ok game. I say that evo just took what was complicated to another level and the graphics didn’t change much. Tekken has shown a certain “evolution” in my opinion. The game is fun and grows more each game while it took VF three (if not four) games to come up at all. Tekken is a great game but barely beats VF4 now evolution was more complicated from doing a decent combo to the mere frame rate or lack there of. The second best fighting game though I think goes to any capcom game or DOA game, but I do not think Power stone is equal to smash bothers although there is another fighting game like that on saturn I can’t think that reminds me of both. well I say t4 is better than vf4. :tdown: evo is close but T4 is better
There is an equal number of doa fans as well as tekken fans and street fighter. VF has not broke any sells here while Street Fighter and tekken have even DOA (with :lame: virtual volleyball game has lol)
Anime, seriously, WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?!?!?
Anyways, here are the Japan VS Korea 3-on-3 vids.
Japan - Homestay Akira, Ohnuki, Ohsu Akira
Korea - ShinZ, ???, ???
And yes, this is the same Ohnuki whos badass @ Capcom games. The strange thing is, alot of japanese players thought that Ohnuki stood no chance in making the jump to the 3-D realm. 2 months later, he gains the title of best Aoi. It was his skills that allowed him to get good so fast. You can see how good his Aoi is in this vids.
HAHA that’s one of the only non-FT VF4 vids I’ve kept! Minami Kage = THE CHEAPNESS! Skelton should’ve just played normally, instead of trying to out-cheap Minami. No one can beat Minami at his own game!
