Sorry to hear that, but I have to say in my defense: no, I haven’t been only attacking. This is factually wrong.
Positions based on personal experience are anecdotal evidence at best. There’s a wealth of empirical evidence that has been routinely ignored in this thread, so don’t be too surprised if the response to sweeping generalizations and out-of-ass assumptions – not talking about you specifically, but in general – is ridicule. Hey, sometimes it works; sometimes, pointing out that an argument sounds very similar to one made by a known buffoon is enough to make one go “shit, I need to rethink my position.”
There’s no enough “shit, I need to rethink my position” in this world. Or in this thread, or you’d see a whole lot more people replying to the likes of goodm0urning, blufang, HoneyBBQGrundle, etc. with actual reasons instead of “facts” pulled – and, in many cases, verifiably false – from MRA sites.
EDIT - Meeting halfway would be nice too. I didn’t agree with a lot of what TS wrote but I didn’t openly mock him, partly because he doesn’t tend to post rubbish, partly because it wasn’t the usual “feminists are trying to redefine rape to mean ‘I regretted a consensual sexual encounter’” garbage people have actually posted in this thread.
White males are the most worn down and ridiculed males out there. Beta white males dont know what to do besides submit to everyone telling them they are wrong and evil.
I just haven’t seen anything posted that discounts links guys like DatPunk has posted, I just see people calling him stupid and wrong and mocking him, and while I don’t agree with a lot of what he’s said, just dudes like HoneyBBQ posting dame near trolling type responses to people, including me. I mean i see your point about pointing out that an argument may be similar to the stupid argument of someone else, but no ones going to pay attention if it’s just inflammatory., especially when those people are making an honest effort to put forth a position. It kinda just makes you look like a troll, especially if it didn’t work the first time and you keep doing it expecting it to just randomly stick.
Only youtube stuff i follow on this stuff is GirlWritesWhat, cuz she’s eloquent, she makes sense, and she backs up her position. I don’t know shit about Amazing Atheist cuz I’m not interested in people shout to get their point across, much in the same way i can’t be very interested in argument that boils down to “You remind me of this guy so I’m just gonna discount what you say.”
I also understand that anecdotal evidence isn’t the same as scientific evidence but I’m also a big proponent of believing what I see, and I see women use the legal system to screw men out of their things on a regular basis, or use their sexual strength to get what they want, while complaining about how unfairly they are treated. Spent most of my childhood watching my step mother and her friends use the legal system brow beat, threaten, and control their ex husbands in order to get things they didn’t rightfully deserve so I’m sorry if my perception is colored, I’d be really happy to be proven wrong, but I can’t say anyone on your side of the fence has really done a very good job of proving the face of the feminist movement, and those who follow that face don’t do this, and from what I can tell that movement has a shit load of power which i find really quite scary and intimidating from where I stand.
Can you go about proving the stuff that has been linked here is verifiable false instead of just associating them with one loud obnoxious guy on Youtube?
Edit: I’ll go about reading the thread again cuz perhaps i missed these arguments that prove all these counter arguments false, I’m not above admitting that I’ve made a mistake or missed something, I just haven’t seen anything yet that shows how the legal system isn’t stacked against men, how the legal system hasn’t bent over backwards to provide benefits and provisions to women at the exclusion of men.
@crotchpuncha Without snark, I’d rather see the MRA numbers backed. There’s already statistical backing for the “other side” – which again doesn’t mean its worst examples – and little against beyond rhetoric about how unreported cases bridge the rather wide gap.
I’ve read more books on this shit then I would really like to admit. Basically it always come down to women wanting shit that men earned without taking the asswhooping that men endured to get it. What really pisses me off is that when you point this out to a feminist they compare “patriarchy” to slavery or some other atrocity that near as make no difference wiped out an entire ethnicity. This is insulting as fuck to me, someone who has relatives that were around for the “good shit” that was Jim Crow Mississippi and frequently talk about it to me.
When you ask a feminist why hasn’t it took off in the middle east or Mexico then they rush you down to say “SEE evidence of the strong bastions of patriarchy!!”. This is a convenient as fuck quarter truth. The rest of the truth is that those places are barren, poor as fuck, lawless shitholes and without the aid of men enforcing the the evil, omnipotent “patriarchy” women would get beheaded on some religious narco-terrorist shit. Yet these people never really delve into the reason why women don’t typically do as well as men. The only thing limiting women in the western world is their own laziness and entitlement that comes from tens of thousands of years of men just handing them whatever the fuck they want. I for one am not yielding my masculinity to win the favor of women, not anymore.
As for gaming being fucked with there is a simple solution. Dont support games that were made by white knights throwing us under a bus. Cliffy B calling pissed off gamers who called bullshit on Sarkeesian “taliban boy gamers” or some shit? Don’t buy anything made by this asshole. The asshole who projected his own insecurity by saying the women doesn’t have a boyfriend because male gamers would feel insecure? Don’t buy that game he made. Talk with our wallets and make them accountable for shitting on us.
Even if we try to meet halfway, what happens when the numbers are backed? I see arguments that women are favored in family court cases, and these were pretty much accepted right off the bat, so how about a +1 for women there? They’re also the victims of 60% of domestic violence, and that comes from a source specifically trying to maximize the % of abused men. So -1 for women and we’re back to even? But I’m sure even those numbers are wrong and men make up 50%+ of abuse cases. And they’re all of equal severity? Of course. And women (as of Jan 2010, was it?) held 50.3% of jobs and 49.9% when corrected for some factors (I forget the exact details, see the NYT article in DatPunk’s last post). The article also says that percentage is expected to drop when (haha, “when”…maybe “if” would be better) the economy recovers. That seems pretty much equal, but that’s not the claim is it? The claim is that women have it better than men. Even with people claiming they can prove this using data they pick, the absolute best they come out as is equal, so forgive me for not being convinced. Not that listing a few of pros/cons and tallying them in such a simple way can tackle such a difficult problem in the first place, but what the hell, why not?
Sure, there were other supposed arguments, but they’re also not convincing. Men choosing to “jump through hoops” to get laid, besides being greatly exaggerated (and besides also being applicable back when women were undoubtedly legally discriminated against), is still a personal choice. If personal choice nullifies the “less pay” argument for women, then I assume the same applies here and we can dispose of that argument? Or is it legally required for men to do this? I know someone will dispute this because that’s what happens when one assumes the conclusion and is then forced to reach it, so I won’t be surprised.
I really didn’t mean to post another wall of text, but that’s the last thing I had to say and now I’m done with this thread too. I don’t need the last word and I’ll still read a response if anyone wants to bother with one, though. Just know that I probably won’t be convinced, just like you’re not convinced now. It’s only to be expected.
edit: I came to give any missed likes/agrees and didn’t see this before:
Liked a million times. You’ll probably find a bunch of conflicting data if you look in enough places, and hardly anyone has the time to really examine every study to see if they’re sound, so you’ll just have to absorb what you can, consider people’s motivations and take it from there. Thanks for at least admitting that you’re not an expert on something that most people (myself included) aren’t experts on, and sorry for taking a jab at you earlier.
Back then having human slaves was the standard. There was nothing “immoral” about it.
Actually having human slaves today is also a standard, just in a form where people can deny it and feel good about themselves. Who makes your shoes and your iPhones if not “slaves”? Maybe even you are a slave to someone else, who makes more money than you based off of your work.
IMO
a hipster constitutes someone that doesn’t accept or at least acknowledges the change of something.
I know a couple of SF players that wont touch newer games because of there opinion over them and only play the older games.
It kind of annoying trying to these people especial when they overhear something and add their opinion. OLd stuff is cool, but there are newer games that are worth it.
There are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay worse things social media has spread and worth hiding from. One example I’m actually allowed to talk about on SRK: “complimentary and alternative medicines.” However, social media has ironically also helped combat these things.
Holy shit, where’s the “Shut the fuck up everybody, none of you are even fucking trying to make sense on anything with your whining” button?
Like good god, this threat started off miraculously decently for here, and now it’s turned into castrated male feminists supporting some of the anti-men shit that’s gone around, people trolling for the sake of trolling, fucktards with ridiculously warped senses of “normal” or “right and wrong”, female feminazis instigating shit so they can claim victim status while claiming they’re “not as much this as men” or “better” than men due to “advantages” and shit as a result of adding personal info that NOBODY FUCKING ASKED ABOUT.
This topic is supposed to be about a fucking theoretical principle, not about people that actually aren’t hard done by at all to bitch about how rough they had it, and those that had bad experiences to be narrow-minded sexists and judge everybody because of instances involving one or a couple of people. Yes, shit happens to women, but they’re not fucking incapable of saying things for themselves while maintaining gender equality and don’t need male self-hating gender traitors to start cutting down men in general to try and support them like they need outside help to be seen as what they already are in most of the developed world and ESPECIALLY North America: Equal.
Trying to claim they need to makes you look like a fucking submissive jackass who obsesses over the thought of saving people that don’t need saving, makes women come across as helpless and victimized in times their not, and tries to establish how wrong an injustice is, when that ‘injustice’ DOESN’T EVEN FUCKING HAPPEN. And nobody’s got time for or wants to put up with that shit.