I don’t like it being misused because IMO just tossing it around hurts the community. I mean, there are people who do deserve to be called scrubs and they do need to hear it either to learn their lesson and move beyond it, or for everyone else to realize what they are and ignore them. Just calling stuff or people you don’t like “scrubs” or “scrubby” on the other hand just contributes to the hostile, elitist image of the FGC.
IMO, knowledge or and willingness to counterpick is a sign that someone, even a low level player is starting to become aware of the metagame and is ready to step up and explore it further.
Besides, learning more than one character is never bad and IMO helps players become more well rounded.
I guess someone never saw Daigo play anything other than SFIV (or even III). He used to run Boxer in ST aside from Ryu as well when he needed to.
When I played SFIV I only played one character, but that game is boring as shit so I couldn’t be bothered to learn another character, plus I never felt like there was anything worse than one or two 3-7s, and even that was debatable.
But in a game when I have more than one character, if I feel like I can turn a bad matchup into a good one by switching to a pocket character, I’d counterpick. However at the local level wins are usually decided by player skill than actual matchups. I could design a KoF team that beats Central Florida’s best player’s team from the ground up on paper and I’d still likely lose. In a situation like that, where you are clearly being beaten by the better player, its probably best to stick with a neutral or slightly disadvantaged matchup with your main.
personally I’m not a fan and would prefer tournaments adopt single game formats to get rid of it, or a format like starcup/versus grand championship where players can choose a team of three, with repeats allowed, but they must commit to that team for the length of the tournament.
but also depends on the game, my opinion only really applies to SF.
I don’t counter pick character match ups, I counter pick player match ups and even play disadvantaged character match ups if I feel I have the edge over the player if he or she isn’t comfortable with the match up.
I literally always counterpick, unless I find that matchup boring, or if I’m already using a top tier. I find winning fun almost no matter what, so why wouldn’t I counterpick if I’m having more fun doing it?
I’d rather use the term ‘switch character’. The character i switch to may statistically be even worse than the previous one, but most of the times this proves advantageous as it forces you to switch perspective and it confuses the opponent as well.
not necessary to be a bad matchup
But i do it only when i’ve been drained out of options and short circuited with that character. Then after few games i may switch to the old character again for a fresh start.
I rarely practise more than one character at a time extensively, so attempting a counterpick is usually a risky move. I’d rather learn my characters bad matchups, than switch to a more advantageous one which I might be at risk of forgetting how to play in the heat of the moment.
You mean when he was young, immature, and a much worse player? Yeah, let me emulate Daigo when he was still learning. I find it funny how 99% of the time it’s only the nobodies that advocate these kinds of attitudes while the pros play who they like (laugh)
Or, maybe he plays ST that way since it’s more advantageous for him to play it that way since Ryu has some bad match ups against characters like Boxer, O. Sagat, etc.
And speaking of pros “playing who they like”, I guess someone missed Infiltration actively counter picking Eduardo’s Boxer with Hakan. Or what about FChamp picking Magnus/Morrigan/Doom as a hard counter against ApologyMan’s team at Curleh North and Evo2014? Heck, even Justin made an adjustment against ChrisG in his team order since having Storm up front basically counters point Morrigan.
Except Swiss system, every tourney format have randomness except for the first place. If people can be eliminated early on, anyone can play the “winner-to-be” early on and go out the torney. But the first place is the guy that was more consistent. And i don’t think it’s bad, isn’t the elimination what creates the competition?
Outside of a tourney context, people play for win, but at the same time to learn. There, some people think it’s better to stick to a single character, and get used to a supposed “bad matchup”, maybe test new stuff to try to change the theoretical odds. Others think it’s more productive to use this time to learn a secondary character, as the learning curve at the beggining and middle may be more friendly. I think both stances are coherent, by the end of the day it’s personal.
But yeah, in a tourney context, things change. If the format is character lock and single elimition, people will tend to invest more in a single character for the training process. If the format don’t have character lock and isn’t single elimination, people will tend to use more characters during the training process.
At the same time there are many pro character loyalists who rarely or don’t counterpick. Even in what are viewed as counterpick games like ST. In general it seems Japanese counter pick a lot less. Many exceptions of course.
In the end people can do whatever they want. As for myself, I’ll play a character or sometimes multiple characters that I really enjoy. If those multiple characters cover each other’s bad matchups, well that is gravy. However I won’t learn a character I don’t enjoy just to cover disadvantaged matchups.
You’re not too bright, are you? Yun is a counter to Dhalsim. But who did Daigo use?
Yep, Infiltration and Sako are the big names that counter pick. As for Marvel… It’s a team game. Changing your team doesn’t… you know what, I only made an account because you made me laugh so hard.
doesn’t really bother me lol. the way i see it, you’re always accepting a certain threshold of randomness. certainly 3/5 games is gonna be less random than 2/3, or 4/7 will be less random than 3/5, but eventually you compromise a certain degree of randomness for just being able to finish a tournament. there is obviously some acknowledgement of this when you see a lot of money matches having extended formats like ft5 or 10, but I doubt anyone would think running a tournament of ft10’s is a good idea.
i also think that ‘randomness’ tends to favor people who play aggressive styles, which is my personal preference. it also seems to promote character variety. to use 3s as an example, since its the only game i follow, you see better character variety at sbo or the one year evo was forced to switch to single game than standard 2/3 american format.
in general i think different game communities should explore more customized tournament formats. i always thought it was ridiculous when cvs2 tournaments would be run 2/3 games, but that is kinda off topic.
Dude, consider yourself taken out because you didn’t debunk shit. Daigo said he want to stick with E. Ryu through the whole tournament (also, here’s his reasoning);
Also, changing one character or a whole team can affect you and your opponent’s gameplan (Ex: Just changing an assist can cause your opponent to play different). Ok, lets say I’m playing against a Dr. Doom player and I’m having a hard time hitting him with Deadpool, but I know that Doom has a hard time with Hawkeye. Bam, I just counterpick him with Hawkeye and he has to respect my Hawkeye. Counterpicking does work in every FG, just because it’s a team game doesn’t mean shit. So, you’re not bright, my man.
As for the topic, I believe there’s nothing wrong with counterpicking. I only counterpick for my bad matchups. For every game I always have a second character/team in my pocket just in case I feel that my main character/team doesn’t cut the bill. I only pick characters that are fun and help me in my bad matchups (I don’t follow the latter rule all too much). I mean my main UMvC3 team is Chris/Ryu/Deadpool & my secondary team is P. Wright/Dante/Deadpool. Counterpicking doesn’t make you less of a man tho.
I don’t play shitty characters so I don’t have to change it up for matchups and if I still have a shitty matchup with the character I like, I’d learn it in side out.