I main Chun Li in ultra but I keep Elena as my “official” secondary. However, whenever I get matched up with a Zangief player, I always have the hardest time. Mainly because of EX greenhand into fierce throw.
Theoretically, Chun should just be able to zone gief out. And normally I do. But then I run into REAL good Zangief players and I just say eff it and pick the ultimate zoning char against Gief. That being Sagat.
Even after all these versions of SF4, I still can rely on Sagat for my tough matchups.
Counterpicking is only worth doing in tourney or somewhere similar IMO, because that’s the time when you’re playing to win.
When you’re playing with your character online or with friends/training mates, counterpicking won’t really get you anywhere; sure you win, but what will that win really mean for you? In that kind of setting I think it’s better to grind out matchups with your main, good or bad, so you learn how to deal with those matchups, after that grind out the same matchups with your secondaries/counterpicks so you get the feel for those matchups with your counterpick. That way you maximize your knowledge with all your characters against all matchups, not just certain characters against their good matchups.
In tourney even if you’re counterpick-minded, there’s gonna be times where you have to play at least one match against a bad matchup (for example, right after you win a match, your opponent counterpicks you and your current character is locked in) so it pays to have knowledge in that matchup even when you know it’s a bad matchup. If you lose, then okay, that locks in your opponent’s char and you get to counterpick. If you win tho, then you get one more free victory before you have to counterpick.
I think things like these have to be taken consideration, it’s not necessarily scrubby to say “I don’t counterpick” because your decision changes with the setting.
I mean, what if they’re just casual players? Some of them play FGs and want to win, but at the same time they don’t want to invest too much time and effort into learning one or more counterpick characters. Are they automatically scrubs?
Also lol, it’s kinda a bad idea to choose Megaman just to counterpick Storm, unless you actually main Megaman. He does handle that matchup well enough, but what happens when the opponent switches teams? You’re stuck with a mid tier team that requires a whole lotta work and knowledge just to get by.
If you want to choose a counterpick to Storm, better just go with a top variation so you still have a good team even when the opponent switches teams.
Except that the posts in question scrubby by the fact that they are assigning an arbitrary, negative value judgement towards counterpicks. There’s a difference between saying that you don’t counterpick and outright saying that those who do are “bitch-ass scrub fucks”.
I don’t, I don’t know that I’ll always be able to counterpick when needed so I’d rather deal with the problem of learning a pain in the ass matchup now rather than be screwed by not having an opportunity to counterpick and not knowing the matchup later.
While Im not fond of counter picking. it is no doubt a legitimate strategy and I’ll even practice it if I feel its necessary. But Im always afraid of that one scenario where I attempt to counter pick but my opponent counter picks my counter pick, Its becomes endless cycle where i may have to learn multiple character and I really don’t do well learning more than 2 characters.
Their also the rare case of my opponent knowing how to deal with said counter pick.
I mean, I guess if counter picking is how you like to play then no one is stopping you. It even makes sense to a degree if maybe the person you counterpick with is a secondary character you’re trying to learn or something. I just think it’s scrub-esque when people literally pick a character they never even think of using JUST because they know it’s an advantageous matchup. Sure it’s satisfying if the only thing that matters to you is winning I guess. But that’s not the case with a lot of people. -shrug- I like to have fun fights and learn from my disadvantageous matchups, regardless of whether or not I win. I’m not gonna pick someone I never even use or don’t enjoy using just because I can’t stand losing.
Please stop using the word “scrub” when it’s obvious you don’t know what it means.
The person is neither complaining about something being cheap nor refusing to do something because they feel it’s cheap, therefore, based on the accepted definition of the word, they aren’t a scrub. In fact, that they are counterpicking means that they are “playing to win” which is what a scrub does not do.
I don’t because I want to get better as a player the same way Bonchan and Daigo didn’t counter pick. Oh wait, if you’re not playing to win 100% of the time you’re a scrub. Just ask Daigo and Bonchan
Daigo shifts between Ryu or Yun in versions where he is good. Why would a well-rounded/strong character have a match that requires counters? Bonchan plays Sagat, who’s almost well rounded aside from his poor speed/startup. Neither of those two really have counter-worthy match ups.
Slghtly unfavorable can be overcome. I mean match ups like Hugo vs Juri, Guile, or Gouken for counter picks.
I would use Guile against Bison(8-2 for Guile) in USF4, even though my mains do well in this matchup. Bison has a much harder time to put Guile into a very bad position in this matchup, compared to my mains, so you don´t have to bother about things, which might cost you the victory.
In a best 2 out of 3 set, I would have a 90% chance to win in this matchup with Guile, but with my mains only 50%(Assuming they go evenish agianst Bison). A 3-7 matchup against me means that I have only a 21% chances of winning, but in a 7-3 matchup I would have 79% chances of winning.
Counterpicking increases your odds and decreases the odds of your opponent in a set, just important is that you know, how to use the character and how to play this matchup :).
I don’t really counterpick. I’m terrible at remembering who has poor matchups against whom, so I’ll pick one of my mains and go forward. I’m making attempts to expand my pool of characters in the games that I play so I can make actual counterpicks, but it’s a slow, arduous process.
Seems this is a touchy subject. Anyways my first statement was a joke, but I do agree with forte95. If u r devoting a ton of time to fgs, are a serious tournament player, etc. Then go ahead tier whore and have counterpicks ready for tournaments especially if u have some really bad matchups. We’re talking about money, and winning competitions proving your skill at the highest level.
However at the lower levels, never understood the purpose. Maybe to protect a fragile ego? Don’t know, though I would be interested in responses.
I would say people who question counterpicking when the obvious reason the player is doing is “to win” are the ones with fragile egos.
As for me, I generally don’t counterpick because I usually just drop characters that have enough poor matchups to justify it. I am perfectly comfortable with a small percentage (edit: we’ll say a fourth or less) of the roster having 6-4s against me. My playstyle is “king buttons” and if I’m using a character that is an archetype that can’t push buttons against another common archetype then it’s time to move on.
Yes playing to win…tournaments and all that. However if u r below that level the reason doesn’t really stand up. Tier whoring doesn’t really either. Nothing against people who do it, just doesn’t make much sense. As far as being productive, if the person hasn’t learned one character at a high enough level to compete in tournaments, they should work on that rather than worry about counterpicking bad matchups.
Well this is my process when learning a game. Rather than choose a single character, I play and learn every single one that looks appealing, and counterpick relentlessly whenever I feel it provides an advantage. Inevitably, one character will improve faster than the rest, and they’ll chip away at all my counterpicks until I use that one character for 90% of all situations. It’s less counterpicking and more, “my second-best character who only shows up when the matchups are skewed against my best character.”
MvC3 C. Viper is the only character I can think of that I went to specifically looking for a counterpick. And even in that case, she was an early favorite that I dropped because she required too much work. Dormammu makes half the cast feel like too much work, so suddenly Viper was appealing again.
