What's with the SSB Hate?

[Grim_Tuesday]

Alright, just thought that I’d throw in my 2 cents… I’m a competitive Smash player, but I’ve dabbled in lots of traditional fighting games as well.

A) Whiners who pre-emptively ban things rather than truly analyzing if they’re broken

I definitely agree with this, unfortunately :c

More so for Brawl, than Melee, but yeah…

B) Devising unnecessarily complex and arbitrary rulesets that strip the game of fun and strategy

Waaaaaait a minute. Do you seriously think that the rule-sets strip fun from the game? Why on Earth would competitive Smash even exist if it wasn’t fun?

Lets say that I have fun playing 3rd Strike without parrying, that doesn’t give me a reason to hate the 3S community, I play it my way and they play it theirs.

Saying that the rule-sets strip strategy from the game is just a result of ignorance of the things that different characters can do on different stages and the effect that random items has on the game.

C) The governing decisions made by a private “elite” body on Smashboards rather than by community consent and opinion discussed in open public

Bro, they RECOMMEND rule-sets, they don’t force them down our throats. If the community didn’t agree with the Back-room’s decisions, they wouldn’t use their rule-sets. Lol.

D) The community composed of immature temper-tantrum throwing man-children (perhaps an unfair characterization, but the Smash community does have a stigma of being more immature and socially inept than other communities)

Also reluctantly agree. Though that’s only 50% of the community, I’ve met lots of great, normal people through competitive Smash.

E) Smash players saying “Smash is the deepest and best fighter EVER” despite not playing anything but Smash

G) The FG community in general looks down on anyone who says “play my game because it’s better than yours” and then refuses to play anything else, in case you can’t tell.

Vocal minority.

F) Smash players proclaiming that Smash IS a real fighter despite not playing anything but Smash so how the fuck would you how a real fighter works anyway?

Who cares?

H) Bad reputation in past events where SF/Tekken and Smash have been held and Smash players taking up large amounts of set-ups for Smash leaving much less for other games. In general, events which have co-held FGs and Smash together have been done and rarely have the 2 communities co-existed well. Either Smash players are upset because Smash is shoved into a corner at events where SF/Tekken is the main draw, or FG players are upset because Smashers take up too much space for the entire event.

Could you cite any examples of this? I’ve never heard of any complaints from either party at any of the majors I’ve been to, and everyone is friendly with each other at our locals.

I) For ITEMS. This debate is never going to be resolved. Suffice to say, a lot of people in the FG community criticize removing all items from the game, and the Smash community is never going to see eye-to-eye on this issue. Although it’s quite sad that many in the Smash community aren’t even aware of their own history and that items weren’t banned in Melee because they’re “random” or “diminish skill”, but because of exploding boxes. An issue that was actually FIXED in Brawl.

Just like to point out that items aren’t banned. We choose not to play with items, just like we choose not to have Subspace Emissary competitions. The game gave us the option to turn them off, so the community decided: “Yes, we will turn them off”.

Whether that was a good decision or not is purely subjective, and DOESN’T MATTER. The majority of competitive smashers don’t force their way of playing on other more casually-oriented smashers.

1. Has to be heavily modified from stock, vanilla settings to get to a point where it is considered to be “competitively viable” by its own community.

Not… really. The only rules the community has added to the game are banning stages and a few other minor things.

We change heaps of the rules from the default, yes, but nothing suggests that the game was “meant” to be played with the default rules.

2. In addition to 1. arbitrary rules such as “ledge grab” limits are enforced, because the game is so silly when you remove the vast majority of elements/stages that things like that can literally break the game.

This is a Brawl-only issue, and I agree, it’s dumb.

3. The developer clearly stated that a competitive 1 on 1 fighter was not his vision for the game, and designed the game intentionally to be chaotic and with a lot of randomness. Despite this, the community still desperately tries to turn the game into a hardcore competitive game and claims it is as a game that actually is designed for competition.

Again, Brawl-specific. I don’t see why the creator’s intent means… anything, really, though. We can play the game however we want if we find it fun, why is that a reason to hate (very strong word) an entire community of generally nice guys?

4. The community (Brawl players, Melee players actually know how to/are good at other games) has completely ignorant, unfounded opinions on other games, e.g. “Street Fighter is just about who can land a big combo first, Smash is much deeper!”

Vocal minority.

5. The game receives no support from Nintendo for competitive tournaments, unlike Capcom/Namco games. Nintendo doesn’t care because the community is playing the game in a way it wasn’t designed for.

Again, why is that a reason to hate nice people?

6. Brawl players call the game a “failure” despite the fact that it sold something like 7 million copies.

Who cares?

7. Brawl players are hostile toward people that do not play using their circle jerk “tournament” ruleset.

11. Brawl players are incredibly socially awkward, and un-ironically spout 4Chan memes at any given opportunity. Not just any memes, memes that are 4 years old and even people that think that kind of thing is funny are sick of.

Vocal minority.

8. Brawl players smell like they crawled out of a sewer pipe after smashing down an entire garlic pizza.

9. Brawl players will not play any game that is not Brawl.
10. Brawl players ejaculate on people’s beds.

Now you’re just getting silly.

12. Brawl players are much younger and more immature then other communities, many are still in high school.

So? It’s not exactly an adult’s game.

13. And finally, Smash Bros doesn’t teach you jack shit about other fighting games. Footsies? No. Meter management? No. Despite embracing the game for the interesting and original sub-genre it is (similar to how DOTA and to a larger extend MOBA games are an offshoot of traditional RTS games) they make the game as boring and linear as possible and try to categorize it in a group of games it really doesn’t belong in.

It’s made “boring” to be competitive, not to become a traditional fighter.

Return of Shiki pretty much got it right. One big thing someone else mentioned is that Smash Brothers fans HATE competitive players and has also ruined the reputation of other competitive players. I know there are a few people out there who don’t like competitive player as they believe they suck the fun out of the game.

So… Casuals hate competitive players for having fun with the game in their own way? How shallow.

And Smash Brothers players do. It not enough that they play the game. Fine, whatever. The game lets you change the settings. But they insist everyone else plays their way and considers people who do not “scrubs.” In the Melee days, they would go to every nook and cranny on the internet to tell people they are playing the wrong way. That Link or Roy sucks and you should be playing Fox instead. They then boost how better they are. Most of those care about competitive Smash and we just want to play the game. Not lecture how items make the game have “less skill,” and our character sucks.

Vocal minority. Majority of smashers are nice people.

Brawl was great for us because it made tourneyfags upset. We loved it. This was great for use because we hated them. Let me rephrase this. **Smash Brothers players hate the competitive Smash Brothers community. **No other game has this. Starcraft players like competitive Starcraft, and Street Fighter players like competitive Street Fighter. These are your potential future players. This is how you will stay relevant. The reason you could get kicked out of every tournament is because we don’t come and support you.

The only casuals that hate competitive players are those who are uninformed, such as yourself, apparently.

And you may say it’s not bad Red Ryu, but Smashboards is. 4Chan raided it 3 times for a reason. The people there are 6 or whiny elitist. The few good members are drowned out. Meeting these people in real life is worse. They quote Smashboard like it’s the holy book. They will not see things another way no matter what you do. You think it’s annoying on the internet; wait till you see it in real life.

You said earlier that you aren’t a competitive player, how are you meeting these smashers IRL? >_>

Anyway though, I’ve met lots of REALLY good friends via the Smash community, and so have heaps of other smashers. Don’t bad-mouth the community without any basis for it.

Also, page 6 has too many people defending Melee players. No, Melee players are the worst. They are the whiney ones trying to say everything is wrong with with Brawl and go out of their way to do so. They are the ones that caused these problems in the first place. Brawl players are just little kids, but they are less vocal and a lot less annoying (given, they are all annoying).

What’s wrong with hating Brawl? You don’t have to listen, you know…

I’d love to see competitive Smash played like Smash. It’s sad that SRK has done more testing than Smashboards on select topics. Either way, I, and many others, anticipate the death of competitive Smash Brothers. Then we can get back to playing the game.

Good luck with that, the Melee scene is as strong as ever and the game’s been out for TEN YEARS.

Finally, my stance on the whole “is it a fighting game” thing: Who cares? But if I had to give a genre, it’d be platform-fighter. It shares many similarities with traditional fighters, but they have enough differences to not be considered the exact same genre. Skills from most other fighting games are interchangeable, which isn’t the case with Smash.

[lordvaati]

this post by ph00tbag on Smashboards sums it up nicely:

A lot of people go on the SRK forums and think that the fact that the majority of people there think Smash isn’t a fighting game, because all the respondents say as much. But it’s not like most SRKers are actually competent in the games they play. They are moreso than we are, sure, but the overwhelming majority of those people don’t win any tournaments ever, and most of them probably don’t think about their game a whole lot outside of playing it.
On the other hand, I was watching a stream of some MvC3 tournament (I don’t remember which), and Noel Brown, and a few other high level players were sitting there openly saying that Smash is a fighting game, it’s just really weird. And well, Smash is definitely weird.
So just keep in mind next time you try to convince SRK that Smash is a fighting game: it’s not a unified front. It also doesn’t really matter that much if the Smash community ever gains acceptance outside of SWF. Our community has survived ten years, and is among the most active fg communities–without any help from SRK. We don’t need them to like us, as we’ve already shown.
I would suggest however, that more people take time out to learn and play some other fighting games. There’s a lot there to learn. Not only does it give you a better perspective on those games, but I think it also helps your perspective in Smash

so the real question isn’t why they hate us, it’s why do we try to FORCE them to like us?

[melody]

you all should probably read my post

[factory9]

you all should probably read my post

Reading would just make too much sense for a Smash thread in SRK.

[Calucifer]

Reading would just make too much sense for a Smash thread in SRK.

Stop trolling, you’re fueling the fire…

[Jazz]

of all the bullshit “Smash is X” threads ive seen over the years…i wonder what is so special about this one to where it still has not been locked.

[specs]

I heard the whole “jerked off in another’s dude bed and got no real flak for it thing” and thought “wow, is this a product of 4chan ‘culture’ or are these people just that damn unlikable?”

In my perfect future, Nintendo hires David Sirlin to make the next Smash and the SRK community both embraces it and ignores the shit out of Smashboards.

[Valaris]

of all the bullshit “Smash is X” threads ive seen over the years…i wonder what is so special about this one to where it still has not been locked.

I think it’s because it concentrates all the shit regarding the argument into a single thread in a section most people just ignore anyway. It prevents it from leaking to real sections.

[jedpossum]

I think it’s because it concentrates all the shit regarding the argument into a single thread in a section most people just ignore anyway. It prevents it from leaking to real sections.

If that was true it would of been kicked to the smash thread.

[FuLLBLeeD]

I heard the whole “jerked off in another’s dude bed and got no real flak for it thing” and thought “wow, is this a product of 4chan ‘culture’ or are these people just that damn unlikable?”

In my perfect future, Nintendo hires David Sirlin to make the next Smash and the SRK community both embraces it and ignores the shit out of Smashboards.

David Sirlin and Sakurai fight to the death. Whoever wins is lead developer of Nintendo vs Capcom.

[EricTwist]

Jesus fucking christ…

This threads just as bad as the one on SWF. I’m really getting annoyed of ignorant elitists talking about games they never played before. On both smash and SRK (actually, the smashers just look dumb, you guys make the dumbest, most irrational statements I’ve ever seen). At least I can make the smashers listen, you guys just insult and go about your way,

Fuck it, I can’t tame two threads like this.

[kedawa]

I don’t hate SSB, but trolling the thin-skinned SSB community is kind of a guilty pleasure.

[Smashbro29]

you know what is the funny part, smash players only play smash, but not the other smash like games, even if this are similar to their “tournament” standard or not , or if they are more like they wanted brawl to be:rofl:

All the copy cats are cheap, badly constructed games mainly made to cash in on some property like Ninja Turtles so yeah we don’t play it.

EDIT: After doing lots of reading here I’d just like to say that neither side here really has adequate knowledge of the other’s game. Seriously. Smash got me into fighting games, I’ve played both. I have tested items and stages EXTENSIVELY and as far as Melee and 64 goes they got it right. Brawl however simply CANNOT be played “legit” the physics simply don’t allow for it.

Why some people care so much to get the approval of the people here I have no idea, though I guess I would like some real talk to happen between the big players of both communities and maybe see more Smash at events.

[Paper]

I’d like to say after transitioning from only playing 3s to allowing myself to play SF4 the floodgates are open. I’ll play pretty much any fighter out there if there is a large, accessible community out there for it.

SF4 is dumb, sf4 players are dumb
MVC3 is dumb, MVC3 players , ,
Smash , , Smash , ,

Now you can all continue to squabble about yourselves like children, if you play any of those games you are equal in my, and many other’s eyes.

ps.

[details=Spoiler]

Waaaaaait a minute. Do you seriously think that the rule-sets strip fun from the game? Why on Earth would competitive Smash even exist if it wasn’t fun?

Lets say that I have fun playing 3rd Strike without parrying, that doesn’t give me a reason to hate the 3S community, I play it my way and they play it theirs.

I stopped reading there, you’re unworthy of even a second more of mine, or anyone else’s time.

[Lenaire]

Smash brothers does take a ton of skill. You have to know character matchups, know that there are very specific character mechanics for combos (similar to character matchups) know the many mechanical exploits of the game (wario grab release, snake cypher grabs, etc) and what true combos or mind games in general work on which characters, and the plethora of A.Ts both character specific and non character specific (b-reversals, dacus, boost pivot grabs, platform cancels etc). It takes a lot of time to really get a feel for the game, understand mechanics, understand mind games and the dozens of options in any situation.

Having said that I used to be really into it and played it a little competitively but I quickly started to dislike the scene and many of the desperate high-tier spamming “play to win, if you don’t play to win as hard as I do and use O.P characters you’re a scrub, you’re a scrub if you even think about playing a lower tier character that you genuinely like” players. It’s a very fun game, and personally concerning items, I like that items are removed when playing competitively. But concerning the community it’s filled with a bunch of MK players, fanboys that d-ride players like M2K, Tyrant, and all the other top MK/top players, and just dicks in general that abuse the lack of balance in the game. It seriously takes the fun out of it. I think that with anything that people play as a sport there should still be a level of enjoyment when playing the game.

I still play the game for fun from time to time with friends but I never see the need to travel 2-8 hours to go to a tournament when I already know I’ll leave salty, not because I’m not good at the game (I’m actually an innovator for the characters I use, Snake Fox and Wario) but because there are too many exploits and people that I genuinely feel aren’t as good as me can win simply off knowing how to abuse poor game mechanics whether these certain mechanics were originally intended to be in the game or not.

As for Smash brothers being on SRK, I seriously don’t see why it needs to be. I agree that it isn’t really a 2D fighter and it would just feel out of place. It has 3 large sites heavily dedicated to everything about it, meta game, hacks, stages, whatever. All is Brawl, Smash Boards, Brawl Vault. Between those sites anyone that wants to learn the game (in fact with Smash Boards alone) can learn absolutely everything about it. And there is also kitty corps/Brawl Vault, dedicated to every single hack including PSA that a person could ever need. There is no point in trying to add it to SRK. Leave it on the 3 popular sites it already has.

[Khentimentiu]

lol smash

[mega_buster]

I dont hate smash but I dont really call it a fighting game its more like something I would play with my little cousins and stuff but the smash people are trying to hard

[PongBoom]

This thread needs to be closed. Pretty much breaks every rule a forum has ever had…ever.

[Stuart_Hayden]

Why some people care so much to get the approval of the people here I have no idea, though I guess I would like some real talk to happen between the big players of both communities and maybe see more Smash at events.

Yet you would constantly post “Yay more people not paying attention to me” Or something along those lines. Your posts aren’t really worth paying attention to.

So, kindly shut the fuck up. Thanks.

[Smashbro29]

Yet you would constantly post “Yay more people not paying attention to me” Or something along those lines. Your posts aren’t really worth paying attention to.

So, kindly shut the fuck up. Thanks.

Yeah it kinda sucked being ignored. Especially when everyone is arguing a point you brought new info to. Nevermind it was a completely different debate. And I don’t think I will. Also, stop being an asshole. I’m sure you’re better than that.