I think this is due more to the money at stake than the actual gameplay though.
You mean at a tournament that happened a few days after Brawl was released in the US?
lol Well I know my Argument isn’t perfect but thanks for taking the time to read my post. What your saying about tournament play is true, but I guess it’s fair to say my experience is different from yours or I guess most people. I fairly enjoy tournament play, It’s disappointing to lose but regardless of that I still enjoy being at a tournament and playing different people for high stakes. I do understand your point though.
As for the government thing I won’t go no further lol.
OK here’s a list as to why we don’t take your game/community seriously:
- Has to be heavily modified from stock, vanilla settings to get to a point where it is considered to be “competitively viable” by its own community.
- In addition to 1. arbitrary rules such as “ledge grab” limits are enforced, because the game is so silly when you remove the vast majority of elements/stages that things like that can literally break the game.
- The developer clearly stated that a competitive 1 on 1 fighter was not his vision for the game, and designed the game intentionally to be chaotic and with a lot of randomness. Despite this, the community still desperately tries to turn the game into a hardcore competitive game and claims it is as a game that actually is designed for competition.
- The community (Brawl players, Melee players actually know how to/are good at other games) has completely ignorant, unfounded opinions on other games, e.g. “Street Fighter is just about who can land a big combo first, Smash is much deeper!”
- The game receives no support from Nintendo for competitive tournaments, unlike Capcom/Namco games. Nintendo doesn’t care because the community is playing the game in a way it wasn’t designed for.
- Brawl players call the game a “failure” despite the fact that it sold something like 7 million copies.
- Brawl players are hostile toward people that do not play using their circle jerk “tournament” ruleset.
- Brawl players smell like they crawled out of a sewer pipe after smashing down an entire garlic pizza.
- Brawl players will not play any game that is not Brawl.
- Brawl players ejaculate on people’s beds.
- Brawl players are incredibly socially awkward, and un-ironically spout 4Chan memes at any given opportunity. Not just any memes, memes that are 4 years old and even people that think that kind of thing is funny are sick of.
- Brawl players are much younger and more immature then other communities, many are still in high school.
- And finally, Smash Bros doesn’t teach you jack shit about other fighting games. Footsies? No. Meter management? No. Despite embracing the game for the interesting and original sub-genre it is (similar to how DOTA and to a larger extent MOBA games are an offshoot of traditional RTS games) they make the game as boring and linear as possible and try to categorize it in a group of games it really doesn’t belong in.
My biggest issue with smash is that they seem to have a good competitive community, which should be the goal… yet they area always tugging on the shirts of FG players of other games going “Hey look at me! Smash is a fighting game too!!!”
Who cares what it is, you have a solid community… why do you want recognition from others (which mostly you will get flamed) in other FG’s community so badly?
it’s impossible to describe this game at a high level to people who don’t know how to play it at a high level - let trolls be trolls and get on with your life who cares what “random srk poster” says. seriously. (NOTE: I did not read a single post of this topic.)
EDIT: I’d also like to note that normally when people say “THE ENTIRE _____ COMMUNITY THINKS ______” they’re talking about the incredibly stupid and incredibly vocal minority of players.
EDIT: this game being melee. brawl is a smoldering pile.
Question to smash players:
If me and my friend were to agree with another 2 players to have a match in Halo Reach on a certain stage, without using weapons (only meele attack), limited to only the sprint power up (running for those who havent played the game) , and played it in 2 out of 3 sets.
What if then my friend and I show this to another 4 players and they like this style so they start playing it like that, and since now we have more competition, we all start developing techniques for it.
What if maybe we even discover glitches in the game that make the fight even deeper.
What if we discover that you can cancel the meelee attack with the sprint and then do a meelee attack again for a Kara-Poke
What if this style becomes so popular that gathers tournaments of hundreds of people.
What if this style turns out to use some techniques that we use in fighting games.
Would you guys start labeling Halo: Reach as a legitimate fighting game?
We would be indeed fighting since we wont use any weapons, and we would select only the stage that doesnt have an impact on the match.
We would even have a healthbar
Would you guys start labeling Halo:Reach as a fighting game???
what would you say to the new school players who come into an SF forum and claim that Halo is a legitimate fighting game???
Wouldnt you agree that in this situation we should tell those new school players to STFU?..
Wouldnt you tell them that regardless of those modifications, the purpose of Halo is still to be an FPS, and not a fighting game???
How would you react if one of them told you that Halo reach is integral for the future of the fighting game community???
This same argument applies to smash
Because yes, I can make X number of modifications and make it look a bit similar to a fighting game, but that does not make Smash a real fighting game.
Keep in mind that Im not saying that Smash isnt a competitive game. Neither am I saying that pro smash players have no skills.
Im saying that Smash is NOT a fighting game.
I like how you reply to my post and then prove the first thing I said right.
Real talk though, you guys as a community need to start using more deodorant. Didn’t Old Spice sponsor MLG? Clearly they are putting their advertising dollars in the wrong place.
Tripping is garbage. It isn’t a “casual” mechanic, it’s a “shitty” mechanic. Arbitrary leaving a player vulnerable through no player or opponent instigated action/strategy = bad, bad, bad, bad design. That alone is enough to discount Brawl as a good game, let alone a fighter.
EDIT - Any good changes Brawl introduced over Melee are dwarfed by the flaws. Yes, removing L-canceling is a good thing. No, tripping isn’t. In any game that isn’t a turn-based, stat-based RPG. And even there it’s kinda queer.
No. In that sense ur making a new game type for people to play which you can do in halo. I mean look at grif Ball. If I’m correct wasn’t that a game that was created in forge and got enough popularity for bungie to make into an actual gametype online or something. I could be wrong however , buy I know grif ball is popular in Halo though.
As for smash, it is a fighting a game but you guys just choose to not recognize it as such. It has many elements in it that make it a fighter. Nintendo themselves recognizes the game as a fighter. It’s a fighting platformer or whatever you call it but its a fighter at it’s core. If you refuse to believe that then good day to you sir. There nothing I can say or do to change ur opinion if you choose not to understand why we consider the game a fighter. As far as I know this is an opinionated subject which shouldn’t be taken any further.
lol I know what ur talking about, It can get real hot at those tournaments. My lil brother sat next to Mew2King and said “Fuck this, I can’t breath!” lol That was funny.
Yeah, didn’t read the rest of the thread but anyway, as a former Melee player I never understood why these topics pop up every few months on SRK. In fact I see very little hate on Smash outside of topics like this where people try to validate their love for Smash. Why does it matter if people on SRK like Smash or whether it’s a fighting game or not?
If you like Smash then discuss it in the Smash section or make a thread about actually playing the game instead of posting “Why does everyone hate Smash?” or “Why isn’t Smash a fighting game?” because these topics never end well.
I’ll throw my hat into the ring. For the record, I’m a big fan of Smash Brothers but never played it competitively. I actually take Starcraft 2 seriously and that’s about it. My view point is someone who is outside of either community.
I’d say this is what people are talking about with “elitism.” Fighting game is a genre. Yet fighting game fans claim A is a fighting game and B is not. A fighting game is what it is. It is a genre of games. IGN, Nintendo and ESRB classify it as such. There is no genre called “party.” This has always seemed like jealousy to me over Smash’s success in the face of fighting games. Of course, that is aside the point. I do agree with everything else you said.
Return of Shiki pretty much got it right. One big thing someone else mentioned is that Smash Brothers fans HATE competitive players and has also ruined the reputation of other competitive players. I know there are a few people out there who don’t like competitive player as they believe they suck the fun out of the game. And Smash Brothers players do. It not enough that they play the game. Fine, whatever. The game lets you change the settings. But they insist everyone else plays their way and considers people who do not “scrubs.” In the Melee days, they would go to every nook and cranny on the internet to tell people they are playing the wrong way. That Link or Roy sucks and you should be playing Fox instead. They then boost how better they are. Most of those care about competitive Smash and we just want to play the game. Not lecture how items make the game have “less skill,” and our character sucks.
Brawl was great for us because it made tourneyfags upset. We loved it. This was great for use because we hated them. Let me rephrase this. **Smash Brothers players hate the competitive Smash Brothers community. **No other game has this. Starcraft players like competitive Starcraft, and Street Fighter players like competitive Street Fighter. These are your potential future players. This is how you will stay relevant. The reason you could get kicked out of every tournament is because we don’t come and support you.
And you may say it’s not bad Red Ryu, but Smashboards is. 4Chan raided it 3 times for a reason. The people there are 6 or whiny elitist. The few good members are drowned out. Meeting these people in real life is worse. They quote Smashboard like it’s the holy book. They will not see things another way no matter what you do. You think it’s annoying on the internet; wait till you see it in real life.
Also, page 6 has too many people defending Melee players. No, Melee players are the worst. They are the whiney ones trying to say everything is wrong with with Brawl and go out of their way to do so. They are the ones that caused these problems in the first place. Brawl players are just little kids, but they are less vocal and a lot less annoying (given, they are all annoying).
I’d love to see competitive Smash played like Smash. It’s sad that SRK has done more testing than Smashboards on select topics. Either way, I, and many others, anticipate the death of competitive Smash Brothers. Then we can get back to playing the game.
This comment is why we’d be better off without competitive Smash.
I’ve never seen another community hate on people inside their community and segment them as such. You throw Brawl players under the bus just so you can try to look better. We see though these acts and you like like a sleez because of it. We hate the competitive SMASH community. No one cares if it’s Melee or Brawl. All of those members are bad.
Sorry for the double post.
By that statement, and all the other stuff Smashchu says against Brawl bashers, I can undoubtedly say he likes Smash more than anyone else in this thread.
Clearly Smash is a “sumo wrestling” game because the goal and moves mimic that of sumo wrestling. So Smash is technically a “sports” game.
Or “king of the hill” game, whatever I don’t care.
Smash was a shooter??? Holy s***!
I’m sorry if you have some kind of personal vendetta on Smash, but goddamn, I love Melee because it’s a super solid game, I hate Brawl because it’s not, and I just want to fucking play these games like I play any other fighter. If you think I’m a jackass for that then fuck you, I’m going to shit in your chimney
Sure Smashboards monsters say some incredibly stupid shit, but SRK is only marginally better. OGs shit on new games/players all the time, so you can’t just single out the Smash community for that shit.
Smashchu I have to say when I see you post on smashboards all I ever see you do complain, complain, and complain. If you hate the competitive smash community so much why are you a member who has spent his 7 years on the site with 2,000+ posts? If you say cause ur a fan, uh… duh? We’re all fans of smash. Some more than others, but what I’m trying to say is that if you truly hate the competitve Smash community, you really have no reason to be there cause your gonna run into the same people that like what you hate. The more you stay there ranting about this and that about the community the less people are willing to want to agree with you.
I honestly do not get people who bash on competitve smash. It’s normally the casuals that do it. Why is it that we the competitive community can’t want more from the game we play the most? To change to rules and setting how we like and how we want to play. Here’s a thought! For those that have a problem with competitive smash why not make your own community that allows for players like you to talk about smash the way you want. Why not talk about game modes that are fun for you or how you guys can expand your experience with the game? I sure as hell know smashboards did that and ran with it. There are hella options for you people to do whatever you want on the internet yet we still got people who bitch and moan about this and that. Its like it’s their life’s mission to go online find something they truly hate, become a member of that community and bash on it from the inside. That’s gotta be fun for you guys right? If all people were like you we’d be seeing a rise in number of hate crimes in the world.
I mean really I myself have even brought competitive smash to my own community when I was in high school. I showed casuals how to play high level smash. They were fairly interested in this and wanted to learn more. I showed them what to do and how to play and this went on for a few weeks; they enjoyed it. In the end though they still preferred casual Smash over Competitive Smash and that’s ok. My goal in mind was just to expand competitive smash within my community. They didn’t hate me or complain about what I showed them or how I played. They just knew I was good at the game and that I tried to show them something more than just doing random attacks and throwing around items. They even thanked me for showing them some stuff and letting them have fun with it. They themselves made to the choice to not play competitive Smash or be in the community. I honestly have no idea as to why you think you need to drown yourself within our community if you hate it so much. Make the choice to leave and do something better with your time.
Something else that’s bugging me is if you hate competitive Smash as you say you do then why or how are you meeting people from the community that you hate so much. Do you go to tournaments to meet said people or to conventions. I’ve done both and those people you talk about are a minority. People at these events keep to themselves or hang out with their crews or friends, catch up or talk about new things in the game or the community they’re so fond of. Do you purposely walk up to these folks and try and piss them off? Cause that’s honestly the only reason as to why they would retaliate to you the way you say that they are. Best option is to not be within that crowd or to separate yourself from them completely cause all your doing is helping yourself to more anger, hatred, or frustration.
And lastly what are “YOU” doing to make things better other than bitch and moan about what “YOU” hate in the community? Oh wait, NOTHING! Your honestly your own description of the competitive smash community. You whine, whine, whine about things that you don’t like, people you hate, and things within the community you don’t agree with. instead of going on smashboards to hate why not start you own community or for the very least FIND a community that better caters to your interests in Smash brothers and stop wasting your time and everyone elses with your smug/shallow comments about what YOU think about other Communities. In the end you make yourself look bad cause you are what you preach. A whiny little boy who can’t get over the fact that a community chooses to play a game the way they want to.
God almighty help these people 
I’m to lazy to respond to everything listed so I’ll just leave this article here. The video has unfortunately been taken down. http://www.videogamesblogger.com/2009/03/03/sakurai-plays-as-ganon-in-super-smash-bros-brawl.htm
OK besides this one instance, please provide some examples of when Nintendo (or Sakurai and Hal Labs) have officially been involved, in any way at all, with a major US tournament.