What's with the SSB Hate?

Classic Fighting Games Other Games
201

The reason Project M started is because Brawl SUCKS compared to Melee. I’d much rather stick to Melee than to actually mod a game to make it playable.
It’s clear you just don’t know what you’re talking about. Most stages are BANNED, there are only 5 neutral stages and 5 counterpick stages, what characters have “random elements” that are so groundbreaking you considered mentioning them? Sudden Death is not tournament legal. The person with the most stocks or least percent wins by default.

Yes we can get rid of the random element, and we do overhaul the game by doing so, because it’s better. Items are disruptive and they change the game unfairly, I explained it in an earlier post, if you want to continue arguing then go ahead and reply with counterarguments.

202

What’s the use? It won’t make a difference.

You guys love Smash but you hate just about everything about it: The eccentric stages, the chaotic mayhem, the various weapons and items at your disposal. You throw all that stuff out and take the handful of stuff you like about Smash and expand it into a whole new game, and call it legit, and for what reason? Because it “sucks”? That hardly justifies it.

Never have I seen a community so unappreciative of the developer’s intent for the game they created to the point that the community would have to mod their console to change it. Not even the god-awful DOA community went that far, and DOA4 was garbage. It’s no wonder Nintendo made Brawl the way they did: to encourage players to take the whole game as is and not to strip and confine it to 5 stages and 3 characters.

The Smash community is a disgrace to the game and the Brawl hack community is a slap in the face to Nintendo and all their hard work and efforts. Until you guys learn to accept both the good and bad aspects of your game, like ever other competitive community, you will never be taken seriously.

Have fun with Project Mugen.

203

i’ll end this right now, ssb is NOT a fighting game in our opinions for 3 reasons

  1. has no commands, only direction based attacks
  2. it is a game of skill,notheless, but not a game of strategic combat rather than tatical precision
    3.people hate anything that kids play and can get good at, no one likes to lose to a 9 year old
    in a childs game
204
  1. Have you ever heard of moonwalking and quarter circle DI? DI in general has pretty damn complex motions the only difference is that the player has complete discretion over it’s use rather than rigid input=output.
  2. The sentence only half makes sense but I think I get your point and you are wrong. Even though technical skill or tactical precision is a big deal, strategy is probably the most important thing. It goes especially in depth on strategies when it comes to specific matchups.
  3. A 9 year old could never do the advanced techniques smash requires. If you think it’s that easy try “waveshining” with either Fox or Falco and comboing it into something, you give the game’s difficulty much less credit than it deserves.

You talk a lot of BS. I don’t mean to be rude but everything you say is just a whole bunch of nonsense. “It won’t make a difference.” Yeah the community that has devoted constant time and energy studying the game and making decisions with a lot of thought behind them gets challenged by a guy who plays the game casually and thinks that’s the way it should be played competitively. Does any other fighter game have random items appearing out of nowhere and changing the entire flow of the battle, all out of randomness?

You wouldn’t consider Brinstar, Pokemon Stadium and Rainbow Cruise “chaotic” and “eccentric”? Not at ONE point did I justify banning ANYTHING with the argument that it “sucks”. You are basicly arguing on air, not responding directly to anything that is being disproven.

And it’s not that smashers don’t appreciate developer work, the fact of the matter is that its casual play. If you want to play competitively, some stages and items simply don’t cut it. Brawl is so slow and it lacks so hard on advanced techniques I simply have no interest in it whatsoever so I won’t bother arguing on Brawl and Project M.

It’s one thing to accept bad things, like Wobbling, the mess that is Sheik, and basicly a lot of overpowered characters, and it’s another to accept things that completely destroy the skill of the game out of simple randomness or degenerate the game.
Again I will reiterate that you are arguing on air alone, and I honestly think you need to play Smash seriously before you try to tell the smash community–which has actually put time and effort into the game-- what to do with the game.

205

I cannot believe I actually read all of the posts here. That being said, I can really understand why people say that they “hate the community more than the series’ itself.”

Anyway, Project M looks a bit interesting, and those custom stages, backgrounds, models, look pretty nice. Anybody here care to share me some links?

206

You are a fucking disgrace because you have no idea what in the unholy hell you are talking about.

Seriously, before you start discrediting people who actually play the game, why don’t you understand how it works so you have something more than your completely arbitrary vision of what Smash is supposed to be to go on.

207

Melee is a competitive fighting game with much more spacing and zoning involved than must of you people can understand. I dont see ANY of the people who have posted in this thread place top 15 at ANY MAJOR be it cvs2, ST, 3rd strike, bb, ggxx, sfiv, mvc2, mvc3, or whatever “real fighting game” u want to mention. So you have no place to define what makes a real fighting game and what doesnt. Neither have I, and thats the reason i dont go around saying this game sucks and isnt a fighter and this one doenst suck and is a fighter because u have to input srk+P to do something cool.

By those standards guilty gear players can laugh their asses off at sfiv players saying their fadc are bullshit compared to the execution required for an frc, and Slash I-No players can reall roflcopter their asses off at sfiv ryu players. The thing is, the SMART Slash i-no players, dont do that, and thats the same thing smart sfiv players should do with smash players.

Now… about Brawl, yes it sucks, yes theres almost no skill required, and yes its no competitive at all, i fukn hate it, but melee is a whole different thing. You want to say Melee is not a technical fighter? Please… try playing Fox or Falco at a competitive level, lol, the level of tech skill fox or falco require is about 10000% more than u require for about 80% of the cast of mvc3… and NO THAT DOESNT MAKE mvc3 WORSE THAN MELEE, or less of a fighting game. The perfect spacing and idea of footsies and zonig u need with Marth is the SAME u need as with someone like Sakura in cvs2 or some1 like ryu in sfiv. You people like running ur mouth without knowing shit.

Ledge techs, ledge sweetspotting, shuffling, waveshines, pillaring, u people have NO IDEA the ammount of tech skill involved in competitive melee. Roll cancels, FRCs, FADCs, blabla, many smashers have NO IDEA the ammount of tech skill required in the other fighting games… bottom point here, THEYRE ALL GOOD GAMES, theyre all good fighters, smash players do miss out on a lot for not playing other games, but you “SRKers” need to stop being so fucking dumb and realize that just because u dont understand something, it doesnt mean its not good. And just because u dont have to input direction commands to throw fireballs, it doesnt mean its no fighter.

Blazblue is not a “half-fighter” because u can do cool things with the Drive button right? -___-

208

Lol I needed a good laugh thanks guys…

Sent From Hueco Mundo Using Garganta Talk

209

Melee was and remains good. Stop ragefacing.

btw - fox and falco were banned at our house because we were sick of hearing their blasters.

210

Nobody is arguiging if meele is competitive or not…, it is competitive but its not a fighting game
the reason being that the purpose of the game is not the fight.
We can be hitting each other the whole match and if you dont send me flying or knock me down the stage, the round will never end regardless of how much you hit me. Helll, your opponent can even suicide, and end the round without the other guy ever hitting him.

JWong has said many times that he doesnt consider smash a fighting game.
Does he have a good enough resume for you???
MVC3 execution is easy because the engine isnt focused on learning combos but movility.
You need just as much movility on MVC3 as you would with fox or falco in meele.

and here’s a quote from Master Chibi which I think is good for this
"Play Smash for what it was always meant to be, and don’t shoehorn it into something it never was"

211

So basicly if there is no health bar then it’s not a fighting game? Cool logic, bro.

The game is about players controlling a single character with the purpose of fighting and defeating the other in a stage or some sort of “arena”. Blast lines and health bars don’t divide the games into different genres.

212

LOL, I can say your entire argument is invalid just from that, but I feel like going on.

JWong doesn’t know a damn thing about Smash, why the hell does his opinion matter on this issue?

What it’s meant to be varies from person to person, so such an arbitrary viewpoint has no impact on how the game is played.

Melee wasn’t shoehorned into anything. What was in the game completely facilitated the high-level gameplay that has been achieved over the years. Brawl on the other hand was most certainly being shoehorned. Even with the severe flaws it had that completely destroyed any semblance of it being a game of skill, it was still forced onto the spotlight with a bunch of little rules in place attempting to take the game seriously. That was complete nonsense.

213

I’ve placed Top 8 at a Major.
So can I tell you to shut the fuck up, now?

Likewise, Justin Wong placed 2nd at a Smash major with 100+ entrants, so you can shut the fuck up too.

214

No that is NOT my logic
Lets start with this, what is the purpose of health bar???
The healthbar is mainly a reference that helps you determine how many more hits you need in order to win the round.
That is because the purpose of a fighting game is to win the round by fighting, meaning that a hit can directly give you the victory. For example, in the right conditions, once you hit an opponent with a jab on a real fighting game, that jab directly activates de KO screen.
If a game had no healthbar, but it was still based around getting direct profit from your hits (like the example I mentioned above), it would still be a fighting game.

In smash on the other hand, hitting your opponent is a secondary thing because your real goal is to either knock them down the stage or send them flying.
That’s why sometimes you can even forget about fighting and go straight for the kill.
An example of this would be in brawl where fox and falco can carry you to the top with their specials without fighting and kill you.
Another example is how you can just hang on the edge, and if your opponent doesnt find a way to comeback on the stage, he could die without having any fighting involved. Now yes, this situation could have been obtained by fighting, but its not necessarily the case (because fighting is a secondary thing in smash)
Another example is Kirby on SBM64, he could just take you to the bottom of the stage with his Down+A and then just fly back regardless of your stamina.
Another example is that your opponent can suicide, and the round would end without any fighting whatsoever.

In Smash, a poke would never end the round unless its focused on the real goal of the game, which is knocking down or send flying. On a real fighting game, pokes and damage are always the primary goal.

SMASH IS NOT A FIGHTING GAME
Its a competitive game of a genre which I wouldn’t try to define since I don’t play any other genre seriously, therefore I cant really define what other genres are, but I can most certainly tell you that it is NOT a fighting game.

Your budy just claimed that if we havent placed top 15 in a major then our opinion doesnt matter, that’s why I brought that up… seems you didnt read that part

oh well… smashers are just that special…

215

It’s not a real fighter because it doesn’t have a combo counter in this day and age.

216

Which Smash? I’ve never heard of JWong playing Smash at all.

It doesn’t really matter if it’s Brawl because all you need to place in Brawl is fundamentals.

You’re still going back and forth hitting each other and spacing each other out with normals and specials. It is most certainly a fighting game in the same way Street Fighter is a fighter and even Virtual On is a fighter. Method of death has nothing to do with whether a game a fighter or not.

And also that other person didn’t say anything of the sort within the last two pages in case you weren’t paying attention.

Edit: Oh wait, he did say that. Maybe he deleted his post. Either way, I didn’t really see it. I’d say actually having knowledge of the game gives more authority than placings at tournaments.

217

Actually from what I remember, Brawl does have the combo counter in training mode’s character select screen (displays your number of hits in your best combo for each character). It’s just that they haven’t incorporated a way to see your combo counter on HUD. It’s not that necessary anyway and someone could just hack it in.

Also, it’s kinda sad that wherever I go to read about fighting games, these discussions don’t ever stop flowing in. While these are amusing sometimes, it’s just dull and pointless. Both SF and Smash throw characters against each other, and whoever is the best fighter wins. They just play out differently, but I don’t see anything wrong with that. Would be kinda dull if every single fighting game out there used the same style of play.

I don’t claim to be an expert or pro in any 2DF or Smash, but it’s just my two cents.

218

DMC
Moonwalker
Final Fight
TMNT: Turtles in Time
River city Ransom,
Bayonetta,
God of War,
X-Men legends etc, etc, etc, etc,etc,etc,etc,etc,etc

According to your logic these are all fighting games…
and let me also say that the point of my post was that hitting each other, and spacing each other out isnt totally necessary to win in smash. You can take that part out and still get a victory, just like I pointed out with examples in my previous post

219

Oh ya hacking it in. That’s why Smash is awesome. Everything has to be hacked.
I could hack the 2-player POW mini-game in SMB3 and call it a fighting game too.

220

No they aren’t.

You seem to have missed my point completely.